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For the future

Need a new striker

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2 hours ago, For the future said:

We need a new striker as Dean smith said the same thing last season not scoring goals and relying on one striker is not good as we saw last season.

Who are going to sign who's happy to play second fiddle to Pukki.

Smith is a big fan of Idah and Hugill has got himself in good shape over the summer, scoring goals in pre season and gives us a completely different option from the bench.

I'm more concerned with where the chances are coming from. Rashica and Sargent have to up their game a hell of alot. 

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If you want to future proof the squad then arguably the OP is correct. There is little evidence that Idah, Hugill and Sargent can succeed Teemu's goal haul, supply or no supply.

Pukki isn't going to be here forever, possibly not even next season. It's something Webber and the manager need to start thinking about imo.

For now we need to address that supply line to Pukki, because there isn't one.

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Smith is clearly trying to utilize players like Sargeant in advanced front line, where players like him just aren't going to supply the creative influence, nor crosses / assists. He is trying to make do with the players he has at his disposal, which he has no other option. In theory we should have more drive from central positions when Sara and Nunez are starting, but wide positions seem of concern, coupled with currently lack of service of Pukki even through the centre. With some rejigging and new additions we should in theory be more creative going forward.

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1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

If you want to future proof the squad then arguably the OP is correct. There is little evidence that Idah, Hugill and Sargent can succeed Teemu's goal haul, supply or no supply.

Pukki isn't going to be here forever, possibly not even next season. It's something Webber and the manager need to start thinking about imo.

For now we need to address that supply line to Pukki, because there isn't one.

I imagine they are awaiting to see whether Idah comes good or he just plateaus and doesnt improve, or suffer from further injuries. I dont think Hugill is clearly seen in that role long term obviously but is a good secondary option for this season. 

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4 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

I imagine they are awaiting to see whether Idah comes good or he just plateaus and doesnt improve, or suffer from further injuries. I dont think Hugill is clearly seen in that role long term obviously but is a good secondary option for this season. 

Agreed. This is make or break season for Idah in terms of his future with us. I hope he can stay fit so he's available when needed!

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Pukkis whole game is off the shoulder. He's never a hugill/idah type player. Which is ok. It's not so much the fact of we needs a striker. It's the midfield. No one who played sat has the head for the type of pass pukki needs. Dowell, Nunez and poss Sara are the ones who can unlock a defense like this. Let's hold fire for a few games to see how it works with these guys in the team. I still don't think 433 suits pukki either. 4231is a better fit, but, with Hayden injured, Hanley banned and injuries in other parts.....433 will happen for a few weeks I think

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Yes, we probably do need another decent striker, but Pukki has shown repeatedly he is more than good enough to play at a top level. He's far too good for the Championship. But, if we don't give him the ball in decent areas he ain't going to score, and that's been the problem for the last year.

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Arguably for the last couple of seasons it has been the negligible contribution of goals from anyone other than Teemu that is the issue. Since Todd had his decent PL season we've not had a regular goalscorer other than Teemu. Mark Teemu out of the game, cut off his supply, and we literally have nothing going on. It's been a problem for a while. I thought that Rashica may become that guy, and didn't see Todd's collapse in form coming, I doubt anyone at the club did either.

When Idah got a bit of form going last season he looked very handy and a threat as a physical no.10. With him dropping off and picking the ball up, Rashica running off the full back and Teemu on the shoulder of the CB we had options. The players are there. We will eventually need a new no.9 but Teemu is not the problem.

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1 minute ago, AJ said:

Yes, we probably do need another decent striker, but Pukki has shown repeatedly he is more than good enough to play at a top level. He's far too good for the Championship. But, if we don't give him the ball in decent areas he ain't going to score, and that's been the problem for the last year.

Correct , Pukki scores two types of goal , when he’s put through with just the keeper to beat or tap ins , he’s never going to beat a couple of defenders and make himself a goal . Surprised no lower league Prem side have come in for him but there’s still time and if they did he would probably want to go .

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31 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Yes, let's ditch the striker who's scored us over 50 goals in this divison. Genius.

On Saturday, you said "Pukki looks finished". Saturday. Can you please try to keep a consistent positon. Please?

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14 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Agreed. This is make or break season for Idah in terms of his future with us. I hope he can stay fit so he's available when needed!

We always seem to say this then he gets injured.

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13 minutes ago, RugbyCanary said:

Pukkis whole game is off the shoulder. He's never a hugill/idah type player. Which is ok. It's not so much the fact of we needs a striker. It's the midfield. No one who played sat has the head for the type of pass pukki needs. Dowell, Nunez and poss Sara are the ones who can unlock a defense like this. Let's hold fire for a few games to see how it works with these guys in the team. I still don't think 433 suits pukki either. 4231is a better fit, but, with Hayden injured, Hanley banned and injuries in other parts.....433 will happen for a few weeks I think

Nailed it.

I don't know why we put Pukki and Rashica in the same line-up. Their styles of play don't dovetail well at all. 

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Decent strikers cost money and we are not prepared or indeed have the money to invest, so have to hope we get lucky finding another Pukki, whois off next year?

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2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Nailed it.

I don't know why we put Pukki and Rashica in the same line-up. Their styles of play don't dovetail well at all. 

I actually think rashica could be a decent 'pukki style' striker. It wouldn't surprise me if he started up top at Wigan if pukki is injured. 

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5 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

On Saturday, you said "Pukki looks finished". Saturday. Can you please try to keep a consistent positon. Please?

Beacause I was over reacting in the heat of the momment. He looks finished due to no support. Not once have we i ever said we should sell him and if we did it would be a massive disastor.

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7 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

On Saturday, you said "Pukki looks finished". Saturday. Can you please try to keep a consistent positon. Please?

This is what I was thinking when I read CCs comment. 

We haven't been able to feed the Goat properly since Emi left. It's incredibly sad. I am not even sure if the midfielders we've signed and are signing are the type to play incisive through balls to him so I don't know how Smith will solve this conundrum. 

One thing is certain tho. Teemu won't be enjoying his time! Like the game at the weekend where Dimi had a chance to cut the ball back but instead just wanged it across the box to absoflippinlutely nobody. Teemu looked incredibly annoyed 

Edited by BobLoz3

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3 minutes ago, RugbyCanary said:

I actually think rashica could be a decent 'pukki style' striker. It wouldn't surprise me if he started up top at Wigan if pukki is injured. 

Why not start a striker like Sargeant or Hugill up front. I cant see Rashica relishing that role when others can cause far more problems in that role.

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1 minute ago, jaberry2 said:

Why not start a striker like Sargeant or Hugill up front. I cant see Rashica relishing that role when others can cause far more problems in that role.

That would get more out of Rashica, I'd say. Not to mention Hernandez off the bench.

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1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

That would get more out of Rashica, I'd say. Not to mention Hernandez off the bench.

He would offer no aerial threat and would rely on creative influence behind, which in our current make up we dont have.

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I Think Idah is the most like a Watkins type we have that is what Smith has used in his Career 

Massive season For Idah got to get fit and earn a place here and maybe replace Pukki in future but it has to start soon 

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What's more important is diversifying where our goals come from and not being so reliant on Pukki because it'll never be enough to keep us in the Prem if we get there.

The onus is on the likes of Rashica, Dowell, Sinani?, Sargent, Rowe?, Cantwell, Mclean, Sara?, Nunez? to contribute to the goalscoring. I think that's how we're trying to develop the squad so whilst we've not really seen evidence of it, i'd actually be happier if Pukki scored 18/19 goals but one of our wingers contributed 10+ and one of our midfielders 8+

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6 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

He would offer no aerial threat and would rely on creative influence behind, which in our current make up we dont have.

Nope, I'm seeing it from the other way around. If you have Hugill up top, who thrives on crosses pinged in, you'll get more out of Rashica as his natural game is to sling crosses in. Heck, I'd even try Sargent up top with Rashica on the left just because of their time with Bremen.

Pukki basically needs channel balls, through balls, or loose balls. Rashica does not tend to come up with too many of those so he looks ineffective as a result. Put a big man up top, and I think you'll see Rashica start getting more assists.

Edited by TheGunnShow

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33 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Agreed. This is make or break season for Idah in terms of his future with us. I hope he can stay fit so he's available when needed!

This deffo is make or break season for Idah , personally I don't think he's gonna be good enough for us , but really hoping he proves me wrong.🤞

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4 minutes ago, hogesar said:

What's more important is diversifying where our goals come from and not being so reliant on Pukki because it'll never be enough to keep us in the Prem if we get there.

The onus is on the likes of Rashica, Dowell, Sinani?, Sargent, Rowe?, Cantwell, Mclean, Sara?, Nunez? to contribute to the goalscoring. I think that's how we're trying to develop the squad so whilst we've not really seen evidence of it, i'd actually be happier if Pukki scored 18/19 goals but one of our wingers contributed 10+ and one of our midfielders 8+

Exactly my view you do not want a Stop Pukki stop Norwich situation to easy to defend against 

you need the whole team on it AM or Wide men should be creating or Scoring that is their main job 

i know Hog we disagree of Mclean but if he is this high championship / Lower PL player he has to show it 

Not just Mclean but Sargent ,Rashica  , Cantwell they have to improve and grab the game do something special create or score not just work hard thats not good enough , 

Like i have said how Pukki is still here i will never know he must really love the club 

if it was me i would have jacked in and moved to a club who create chances for me 

no striker loves working so hard making runs and getting nothing created for him 

 

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433 doesn't suit Pukki. His primary attributes are his speed of thought, finishing and his ability to find space. 433 usually determines that the striker plays with his back to goal and holds the ball up to feed his wingers or goes on to shoot himself.

A big or fast target man type like Benteke or someone like Giroud or Dzeko is more of the ideal profile for the striker in a 433.

Pukki can and will drop deep to receive the ball but he's better employed looking for space off the shoulder of a defender or making a run that causes confusion for defenders trying to hand off marking in a zonal defense. He needs the ball on the deck played into space front of him or crossed to him. He's not a natural target man. He's not dominant in the air either. 

At the moment Smith is trying to fix the midfield for his 433 as 433 is based on the premise that you have 3 dominant midfielders who win the arm wrestle in the middle of the park.  Most of Pukki's goals have come from 4231 from a platform of players who were effectively three interchangeable #10's, who could pick out his runs and play the ball on the deck to the places where Pukki wants the ball played.

Pukki needs to be running at the goal. Not stood still to play the front pivot receiving the ball with his back to goal. 

 

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1 hour ago, norfolkngood said:

Exactly my view you do not want a Stop Pukki stop Norwich situation to easy to defend against 

you need the whole team on it AM or Wide men should be creating or Scoring that is their main job 

i know Hog we disagree of Mclean but if he is this high championship / Lower PL player he has to show it 

Not just Mclean but Sargent ,Rashica  , Cantwell they have to improve and grab the game do something special create or score not just work hard thats not good enough , 

Like i have said how Pukki is still here i will never know he must really love the club 

if it was me i would have jacked in and moved to a club who create chances for me 

no striker loves working so hard making runs and getting nothing created for him 

 

Yep, I guess generally speaking at Championship level we've created so many chances for Pukki and that's partially why he's remained here, rather than loving the club (although he may feel he owes us as much as we owe him in that Farke played purely to Pukki's strength and the best of his club and national career have happened whilst here).

Agree re the rest of your post although i'd note that in both our last championship seasons Mclean has at least notched up 6 assists in each one. Only 2 and 3 goals respectively though, that needs to improve.

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2 hours ago, Bonzo said:

433 doesn't suit Pukki. His primary attributes are his speed of thought, finishing and his ability to find space. 433 usually determines that the striker plays with his back to goal and holds the ball up to feed his wingers or goes on to shoot himself.

A big or fast target man type like Benteke or someone like Giroud or Dzeko is more of the ideal profile for the striker in a 433.

Pukki can and will drop deep to receive the ball but he's better employed looking for space off the shoulder of a defender or making a run that causes confusion for defenders trying to hand off marking in a zonal defense. He needs the ball on the deck played into space front of him or crossed to him. He's not a natural target man. He's not dominant in the air either. 

At the moment Smith is trying to fix the midfield for his 433 as 433 is based on the premise that you have 3 dominant midfielders who win the arm wrestle in the middle of the park.  Most of Pukki's goals have come from 4231 from a platform of players who were effectively three interchangeable #10's, who could pick out his runs and play the ball on the deck to the places where Pukki wants the ball played.

Pukki needs to be running at the goal. Not stood still to play the front pivot receiving the ball with his back to goal. 

 

There's a great deal of truth in this post. 433 does not suit Teemu and it doesn't suit the players we have.

The most important player we have is Teemu. He scores goals. 

I would agree that a big mobile, fast target man is what we need. We have one. Teemu regularly plays in a two up front for Finland and is used to that. When he was paired with Idah before Idah's injury last season that was as dangerous as we had looked for a very long time in attack. 

As you say Pukki is not the man to play as the front pivot with his back to goal. Adam Idah is. 

If we are to get the best out of Pukki we must abandon 433 for either 4231 (when better players are at last available) or play 442 with Teemu and Adam up top.

433 is the worst possible formation for Teemu.

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