Summer Recruitment

[Monty13 2,229]

No not necessarily a indictment of it merely an observation post our first game.

The side I personally saw today isn’t good enough, our midfield is weaker than last year and still significantly weaker than when we had two 30 million equivalent players in Buendia and Skipp playing in it.

Personally I think both Rupp and Vrancic would walk into this side. Dare I say it, even Gilmour would get a runout.

Hayden looks on paper a genuine upgrade on last year and something probably as close as we could get to replacing Skipp, but he’s injured.
Sara may be a world beater, but he’s not up to speed.

Nunez may be great but we haven’t even completed that yet.

Maybe the finance dictates it’s this way, long term we may be in a great place with our squad and while we may not start strong we may get there in the end this season. However I can’t help feeling we’ve started the season in a weak position personally.

This is why I have a slight sympathy for Smith, though I remain unconvinced about his tenure. He’s had no pre-season with new players, our midfield across the board is still weak and short of creativity. 

I’m still optimistic come the window closing we will have a decent squad, but how much ground will we potentially lose while they get up to speed? How much pressure does that heap on the squad and Smith while it happens?

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

Sorry, but that’s mostly rubbish.  Vrancic is long gone, Rupp was hardly ever fit. Gilmour was crap for us.

That XI should have won that game comfortably.  That we couldn’t field any of our new players is down to our strange policy of buying crocks.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,249]

Conclusion: recruitment (or Mr Mountain) has dropped the ball yet again so far. 

[Monty13 2,229]

10 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Sorry, but that’s mostly rubbish.  Vrancic is long gone, Rupp was hardly ever fit. Gilmour was crap for us.

That XI should have won that game comfortably.

They were in the squads over the last two seasons, I’m just saying if they were in the squad now you’d probably play at least one of them and that shows where we are at.

I don’t think a midfield 5 of McClean, Sorensen, Cantwell, Sargent and Rashica wins a game easily in the Championship personally.

Maybe on paper, but in reality, which is what we watched, McClean isn’t a holding midfielder, Sorensen isn’t good enough, Cantwell still isn’t close to the player of two years ago, Rashica doesn’t look like a circa 10 million pound player for whatever reason and neither does Sargent.

Maybe some of that changes, maybe Rashica and Sargent come good. Maybe Cantwell continues his resurgence but I still think that midfield needs better players to “win comfortably” IMO.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Monty13

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,736]

Dispicable that we've allowed ourselves to be in a position of starting a new season with Mclean and Sorenson as our midfield

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

Not bringing in any players this window that were ready to hit the ground running and bring a lift to the team and the fanbase looks like a severe miscalculation. Fans can’t get excited about players they may not see wearing the shirt for weeks if not months after the season starts, and the team doesn’t get an immediate injection of fresh purpose and impetus. Not to mention the issue of shaking off that “losing mentality”, which right now it doesn’t look like we’ve managed to do at all. I appreciate that incomings we’re always likely to be dictated by outgoings but the fact is that last summer we bought so badly and then had such a wretched season that we are lumbered with those players and unable to shift them. Ultimately I’m more inclined to lay today’s defeat squarely on Webber’s doorstep than Smith’s. He still hasn’t got a single player in that team that’s “his” and a the players he’s inherited look jaded, tired and either unable or unwilling to bring the intensity and quality it will take to get out of this league again.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Canary Wundaboy

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

This. There seems to be real complacency when there should be drive and energy. When Webber first arrived signings were made early - unwanted players shifted and we were ready.
 

Now he seems more interested in climbing mountains and we are stuck with players he can’t or won’t shift. It looks like we have to write off the first month waiting for a meagre two new players to shake off injuries. 

Even the Smith appointment stank of disinterest. He just isn’t a Norwich style manager and was picked up because he has just been sacked. So much for the list of candidates Webber claimed he always has up his sleeve 

And instead of new signings to give the squad a lift and inject some belief we have the ludicrous situation of zero new faces on the opening day and having to pretend last years rejects are “like new signings” If that isn’t a sign of moving backwards I don’t know what is? Take Hugil - surplus to requirements 18 months ago, widely recognised as L1 skills with a premiership attitude- and suddenly he is our second next striker. Rinse and repeat for sinani and Onel 

The champs is a hard division that punishes complacency. And a good start is needed to get the momentum going. We look so far off what is needed- there is no identity or obvious style, no belief. On paper our team should be top end but on yesterday’s showing that ain’t going to happen. Come on Webber - pull your finger out 

[unique 434]

11 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Dispicable that we've allowed ourselves to be in a position of starting a new season with Mclean and Sorenson as our midfield

Exactly this.

The reputation of the recruitment teams now rest fully on the footballing abilities of Sara and Nunez.

We are relying on two ‘unknowns’,from the other side of the world, with zilch experience of English football, to galvanise a squad of players so adept at limply losing football matches, that the chances of this proving successful makes it a very long shot.

The first team is riddled with players way past their peak - Pukki, Hanley, Krul, and players who don’t have a peak to attain - McLean, Sorensen, Gibson, Sargent, and Hugil.

Burnley have lost several of their well-established stars over the summer, yet on Friday night they played with vigour, purpose and with their fans right behind them. Appointing a manager who is universally supported by their fan base was also a smart move.

What level of football do we need to drop to before last season’s big money signings, Rashica and Sargent, look accomplished footballers? League1 or League2?

 

 

[Indy 3,284]

A tad unfair to be overly critical, I believe Hayden will be a massive improvement on any CDM we’ve had in recent times, unfortunately he broke down in preseason but fingers crossed once up and fit will stay so and find his Newcastle form.

As for our other two signings, if they’re the quality they look in the short videos and can transfer that form to the Championship then we’re going to have a positive midfield recruitment. My worry is where the goals are going to come from, pre season Pukki has looked out of form and disconnected from our style, not sure Hugill or Idah will step it up so we could struggle unless Dowell can stay fit and find the form of two years ago

[Monty13 2,229]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

A tad unfair to be overly critical, I believe Hayden will be a massive improvement on any CDM we’ve had in recent times, unfortunately he broke down in preseason but fingers crossed once up and fit will stay so and find his Newcastle form.

As for our other two signings, if they’re the quality they look in the short videos and can transfer that form to the Championship then we’re going to have a positive midfield recruitment. My worry is where the goals are going to come from, pre season Pukki has looked out of form and disconnected from our style, not sure Hugill or Idah will step it up so we could struggle unless Dowell can stay fit and find the form of two years ago

Trying not to be overly critical, just pointing out why we aren’t in objectively a good place right now with the squad IMO, rightly or wrongly.

I’m unconvinced on Dean Smith but he’s getting a lot of flack considering the team we were forced to field yesterday was still lacking the key players we need and didn’t have one new player in it.

[Yellow Wal 314]

It has taken a very long time for some of the people baying for Sorenson to 'be given a chance' as a CDM to realise why he hadn't. Showing little urgency to close down in dangerous positions proved to be our downfall yesterday.  I said before yesterday that Gibbs was a better bet and that Sargent and Rashica should not be considered either. After yesterday's performance I certainly have not changed my mind. 

[Indy 3,284]

10 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Trying not to be overly critical, just pointing out why we aren’t in objectively a good place right now with the squad IMO, rightly or wrongly.

I’m unconvinced on Dean Smith but he’s getting a lot of flack considering the team we were forced to field yesterday was still lacking the key players we need and didn’t have one new player in it.

You’re not wrong, but as a lot of posters during the week were defending this squad and pretty much stating that our starting 11 bar Sorensen would walk into any other championship squad it makes me wonder if we are over hyping our players or if it is that after last seasons drubbing our players aren’t as confident with the current set up? But given that performance and the lack of discipline yesterday, when we went a man up we looked worse, from the brief highlights! That’s concerning.

It feels like there’s a lack of togetherness that there was from board level down to the terrace, something just not right. Question mark hanging overSmith, Webber and the board regarding the American takeover. Hopefully we might see Nunez and Sara in the squad against Wigan and decent win might start to see things turn around, but Wigan shouldn’t be taken lightly!

Edited July 31, 2022 by Indy

[canarycop 205]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Wal said:

It has taken a very long time for some of the people baying for Sorenson to 'be given a chance' as a CDM to realise why he hadn't. Showing little urgency to close down in dangerous positions proved to be our downfall yesterday.  I said before yesterday that Gibbs was a better bet and that Sargent and Rashica should not be considered either. After yesterday's performance I certainly have not changed my mind. 

Can't agree more. Rashica and Sergant were really poor yesterday. Sorensen didn't play like he wanted to make the position his own. Badly need a leader in the middle. For me we need a CH, 2 X FB, WINGER AND STRIKER

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

14 hours ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Conclusion: recruitment (or Mr Mountain) has dropped the ball yet again so far. 

Particularly when it looks like Burnley have done a far better job. I think he is trying to be far too clever by half.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Kenny Foggo

[hogesar 9,618]

18 minutes ago, Yellow Wal said:

It has taken a very long time for some of the people baying for Sorenson to 'be given a chance' as a CDM to realise why he hadn't. Showing little urgency to close down in dangerous positions proved to be our downfall yesterday.  I said before yesterday that Gibbs was a better bet and that Sargent and Rashica should not be considered either. After yesterday's performance I certainly have not changed my mind. 

I thought Gibbs had more about him than Sorensen too.

[Monty13 2,229]

11 minutes ago, Indy said:

You’re not wrong, but as a lot of posters during the week were defending this squad and pretty much stating that our starting 11 bar Sorensen would walk into any other championship squad it makes me wonder if we are over hyping our players or if it is that after last seasons drubbing our players aren’t as confident with the current set up? But given that performance and the lack of discipline yesterday, when we went a man up we looked worse, from the brief highlights! That’s concerning.

It feels like there’s a lack of togetherness that there was from board level down to the terrace, something just not right. Question mark hanging overSmith, Webber and the board regarding the American takeover. Hopefully we might see Nunez and Sara in the squad against Wigan and decent win might start to see things turn around, but Wigan shouldn’t be taken lightly!

I think it’s more hope than anything. On paper they are kind of right (bar Sorensen). Cantwell, McClean, Sargent and Rashica are all past proven at this level or higher. Issue is that doesn’t translate to a coherent team, at least not to my eyes and for various reasons they all don’t look right.

McClean seems be being asked to fill a gap and play a role he’s not comfortable with. Cantwell is improving but still looks a shadow of the player of 2-3 seasons ago. Rashica doesn’t look close to the player we forked out for, who knows the reason. Sargent is still returning from injury and doesn’t look match fit to me.

On top of that add the hangover of last years season, expectation of this one plus the need to play a completely different way with the same squad (so far). I think personally it’s a collection of everything, as it usually is when things aren’t quite right, it’s never usually a simple one root cause answer.

[Samwam27 519]

20 minutes ago, Yellow Wal said:

It has taken a very long time for some of the people baying for Sorenson to 'be given a chance' as a CDM to realise why he hadn't. Showing little urgency to close down in dangerous positions proved to be our downfall yesterday.  I said before yesterday that Gibbs was a better bet and that Sargent and Rashica should not be considered either. After yesterday's performance I certainly have not changed my mind. 

This is it for me.  Sargent & Rashica have had an entire season now, and don't look to be adding quality that we need, even against Cardiff. And neither have learnt how to play with, or to Pukki's strengths They, along with Tzolis, are rapidly heading into the hall of fame as our worst (& most expensive) flops along with RVW & Naismith

If they don't improve quickly I'd be one for selling them both before the transfer window closes, and any money recouped signed for playing hungrier players who are likley to compliment Smith's setup.

To defend Smith, this is still Farke & Webbers team! When Mclean looks our best player on the pitch it epitomises that we've gone backwards

Can't remember a season when none of our summer signings start 1st game of the season!   

[hogesar 9,618]

2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Now he seems more interested in climbing mountains and we are stuck with players he can’t or won’t shift. It looks like we have to write off the first month waiting for a meagre two new players to shake off injuries. 

This is just nonsense. More interested in climbing mountains? He's been travelling to Brazil to ensure we make a signing like Sara and get him ahead of other clubs. He worked early to get Hayden in before competition.

As for being stuck with players, who are we stuck with who we desperately want rid of? I don't think there's a huge amount. Regardless, championship clubs are struggling for money post covid and that's not really Webbers fault.

[Monty13 2,229]

19 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I thought Gibbs had more about him than Sorensen too.

True, he also made a very composed last ditch tackle in the penalty area.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

14 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Dispicable that we've allowed ourselves to be in a position of starting a new season with Mclean and Sorenson as our midfield

And only 3 centre backs in the squad again, when will we ever learn.

[kirku 1,332]

14 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

And only 3 centre backs in the squad again, when will we ever learn.

+Tomkinson, Byram, Hayden, Sorensen 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, kirku said:

+Tomkinson, Byram, Hayden, Sorensen 

So a player who hasn't made their competitive debut, our injury prone right back cover, and 2 players who are desperately needed in our threadbare midfield roster.

Yep, we need another one.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

This is just nonsense. More interested in climbing mountains? He's been travelling to Brazil to ensure we make a signing like Sara and get him ahead of other clubs. He worked early to get Hayden in before competition.

As for being stuck with players, who are we stuck with who we desperately want rid of? I don't think there's a huge amount. Regardless, championship clubs are struggling for money post covid and that's not really Webbers fault.

Who are we stuck with: Sargent for starters- can’t see anyone offering 9 million for him today or matching his wages 

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

Farke’s tenure coincided with two phenomenal signings in Emi and Pukki, one of which was quite lucky in that his career hit a purple patch not seen before and a click in the dressing room culture. How much of this was influenced by Farke is impossible to know from the outside. There is clearly credit to be given and why he got the time he did despite setting records every other week that no club wants. It’s overwhelming depressing to think we won’t have a better manager in our ‘lifetime’ given the obvious faults in his abilities at the highest level. Let’s see what he does in his next few jobs, have a feeling he will do a lambert but time will tell.

[ron obvious 1,501]

3 hours ago, Yellow Wal said:

It has taken a very long time for some of the people baying for Sorenson to 'be given a chance' as a CDM to realise why he hadn't. Showing little urgency to close down in dangerous positions proved to be our downfall yesterday.  I said before yesterday that Gibbs was a better bet and that Sargent and Rashica should not be considered either. After yesterday's performance I certainly have not changed my mind. 

He's undoubtedly gifted but I don't think he's motivated enough. Languid would be my description of his style.

[kirku 1,332]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

So a player who hasn't made their competitive debut, our injury prone right back cover, and 2 players who are desperately needed in our threadbare midfield roster.

Yep, we need another one.

Don't necessarily disagree that we probably need another but we've got 6 players in the squad who have played at CB in the Prem

[hogesar 9,618]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Who are we stuck with: Sargent for starters- can’t see anyone offering 9 million for him today or matching his wages 

I dont think the club wanted to offload Sargent (we don't know if that's the right decision or not yet) - he was a figure point in pre season, kit releases and other bits of press, I don't think we were even contemplating moving him on

[shefcanary 2,389]

21 hours ago, Yellow Wal said:

It has taken a very long time for some of the people baying for Sorenson to 'be given a chance' as a CDM to realise why he hadn't. Showing little urgency to close down in dangerous positions proved to be our downfall yesterday.  I said before yesterday that Gibbs was a better bet and that Sargent and Rashica should not be considered either. After yesterday's performance I certainly have not changed my mind. 

It was ficking McLean who didn't close down Sawyers, not Sorenson who was doing his job on the other side of the pitch. Some people have blinkers!

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

17 hours ago, hogesar said:

I dont think the club wanted to offload Sargent (we don't know if that's the right decision or not yet) - he was a figure point in pre season, kit releases and other bits of press, I don't think we were even contemplating moving him on

Whoever bot becomes the question. He offers nothing 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

22 hours ago, Indy said:

 My worry is where the goals are going to come from, pre season Pukki has looked out of form and disconnected from our style,

....we have a style???