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lucky green trainers

just back from st.andrews meeting

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You only have to see the traffic chaos around the city on a game day to realise that a larger percentage of the city support comes from outside the city, therefore few of them, myself included, could make the meeting last night. Do not asume that because we were not there that we do not have an opinion or that we follow the club''s line, sheeplike. I was all for giving NW time this season, but face facts, things have not improved, and there is no plan to where the team goes from here. There is no exuse for waiting for injured players to return, no exuses for lack of money, or lack of support. There is something rotten in the state of Carrow Road, as Will Shakespear might have put it. Is it tactics, poor players, poor prepararation? Whatever, the guy at the top must take the blame.

Like many others who live outside the city, I waited for reactions to the meeting last night, and it seems to me to have been conducted in an orderly and sober manor. The anti WO posters are so loud, maybe it''s because they realise that their arguments just don''t stand up.

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Find it very interesting that the KTF crowd are hanging onto their argument of "...only 500 out of 20''000 went so that must mean that 19''500 want him to stay..."

As it was pointed out last night I believe, the number of people at the meeting that re-elected the Board at the last AGM was something like 90-100 people! So what about the other 19''900 there then, plus all the other Shareholders-using their argument it must mean that none of them wanted the Board we currently have, which includes the naive Mr Skipper.

On a more worrying level, Worthington has himself stated today that he will NOT resign, the Board have said again and again that they will NOT sack him, so, no matter what happens, he will remain as Manager, and the KTF brigade have "won"-and, if and when anything positive happens with the club, be it 2,5, 10 years down the line, if, for example, next season, we narrowly avoid relegation, they will be the ones crowing "...you wrote the manager off, but he''s saved us from relegation..." or if we go down, spend two seasons muddling about in League 1 and then go back up, there they''ll be again "...what have the WO got to say now, he''s got us promoted..." etc etc.

In the meantime after the parachute money has gone next season and the "drastic" changes that Mr Skipper has promised will happen as a result (despite him also saying that the situation is "nowhere near" like it was in 1996!) it will be us, those that have been ridiculed and bad mouthed by the club for daring to air our views that are, all of a sudden, the "best fans in the World" again and yes, once again, a begging letter on NCFC notepaper will land on my doormat, as it has in previous years, well well well, they''ll value me then won''t they? Strange that...

 

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[quote user="rocky marshall"]So 500 is a majority in relation to how many of 25,000 that didnt turn up but attend each week, even if added to the ''masses'' who couldn''t make it! Many would have benn there for good old nosiness and because they had nothing better to do! And onto ''OTBC''! Fans are now unwilling to support THEIR team by refusing to sing THEIR anthem. Who exactly does this hurt? The players - most havent been here long enought to know any of the words; the management - theres hardly been any noise in carrow road this season anyway so whats the difference. This action is pathetic and childlike - toys need to go back into the pram - and will only serve to highlight the club in a bad light. Most people with respected views on the situation both locally and nationally have alluded to the difficulties in re-establishing solidity in a post-relegation season. And its not only from prem down, its all through the league. Most of the same fans that attended tonight would have been first in the queue under City Hall to cheer the League Champions or to applaude the team for giving their all to beat Man U, Charlton and Newcastle at the end of last season against massive odds. Reality check. NCFC were in this division for 9 years before getting out again and went through how many managers? Look at what happened to Ipswich when they got rid of Burley! No promotion, asset stripped and on the verge of backruptcy. So for a meeting billed on addressing the current situation at Carrow Road, what is the ''current situation'' at Carrow Road and what objective solutions have been put forward outside of Sack him and Protest That. Any constructive or all destructive?[/quote]

Thank you Barmy Kipper - and Goodnight!

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Yellow Rages wrote the following post at 03/03/2006 12:04 AM:

I don''t want Worthy to stay but rocky is right in saying that that 500 hundred people hardly proves that outers are in the majority. What a silly statement.

As i''ve said before and will say again, I want him to go but, jesus people why do you get so carried away and make up nonesence?

Should their be a third group here of  WO REALISTS.  Or "WOR''s" Those who actually base their findings on fact. No wonder so many supporters take the mick out of our campaign when we can''t even base it on anything factual. Your as bad as the man himself.

 

The voice of reason in a sea of emotion

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Rocky.. let me ask you one question..... if we are a "minority"

then how come out of the 500 last night only 3 wanted to keep Worthy???? and where were u offering ur support?????

you happy to criticise and whinge when we have our say publically.. yet when given an equal chance to have your say, at the same venue.. u dont turn up! too cold for you???? wanted to watch Eastenders??? im sure u had a better thing to do other than support the manager you seem to think should stay....

 I want him out! i attended the meeting! i had my say.... sad to see the Minority were KTF really wasnt it? case rested i think

jas :)

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[quote user="Canaries for Ever"]

Yellow Rages wrote the following post at 03/03/2006 12:04 AM:

I don''t want Worthy to stay but rocky is right in saying that that 500 hundred people hardly proves that outers are in the majority. What a silly statement.

As i''ve said before and will say again, I want him to go but, jesus people why do you get so carried away and make up nonesence?

Should their be a third group here of  WO REALISTS.  Or "WOR''s" Those who actually base their findings on fact. No wonder so many supporters take the mick out of our campaign when we can''t even base it on anything factual. Your as bad as the man himself.

 

The voice of reason in a sea of emotion

[/quote]I like many people was unable to attend last night. I am a worthy outer and will take part in the protest saturday.I speak to many people on matchdays and the worthy outers are now the majority.

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Well done for taking the time to voice your opinion in what you believe in.

Eastenders wasn''t very good by the way.

But I would imagine that a major majority of those who felt thay should attend last night are people who would want him out.

So if you are a KTF''er why would you go. You wouldn''t feel the need to request change. This is why nearly all who voted, want him out.

I think an earlier post summarised what would need to happen. Put a ballot paper on each seat. That would be the best way to whats what.

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[quote user="LinkNR9"]

Rocky - this is the most incoherent and non-sensical input that has appeared on this site for a long time. I''ll have a pint of whatever you''re drinking, please. Why do you think the NCISA held the meeting tonight? They are hardly a supporters group that is extreme or reactionary in its views. The mere fact that they felt the need to hold the meeting tonight speaks volumes; they are a group that has a true concern of the way Norwich City are going down the pan at the moment, not KTF''s like you with their heads buried in the sand, holding on to some misguided belief that dear old Nigel "got us promoted once, so he can get us promoted again". Well, as someone so rightly said on here tonight, working on that logic, Worthington got us relegated last season, ergo, he can get us relegated again! 

Demos at Carrow Road. A slump in season ticket sales. ''Worthy Out'' chants at matches. Canaries fans having a go at each other on the terraces. The meeting tonight about which you''re so scornful. Are these events occurring because fans are happy with the situation?  "Come together again as fans, team and club and go forward", you say. What planet are you on? This Club, the fans and the Board have not been so divided since the Chase era - at least the fans were united then.  

"When your marriage gets difficult you don''t chuck your wife after 5 years previous good service." To use another analogy - your car has given you three years decent service but has let you down for the past two years. Do you hang on to it in the hope that it might magically get better and not let you down on the outside lane of the Southern By-pass? No, of course you don''t, you get a new car. 

The past two seasons have seen the continued decline of the team and only one person is responsible - Worthington. The increasingly hysterical and desperate ramblings of KTF''s like you and directors like Skipper fill me with joy - it signals to me the end of this awful management team is not far away. And not a moment too soon.    

[/quote] Suprised for once i agree with what you have written and very well put over.I stood by worthy until after xmas i went to leicester and although we won, i could see what a mess we looked a complete shambles never come away from a game after a win and felt so depressed.But the ipswich game sealed worthy fate with most supporters i feel to see a team with no money whatsoever totally outplay us in every department with a bunch of a kids was definately not acceptable.Worthy has had money to spend so he should do the rightfull thing after the palace fiasco and resign whilst still leaving most fans with  fond memories of the success we had under him for a while. 

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live in london - couldnt make it up to norwich for the debate but myself and 5 the mates that i''m coming to game with on saturday will be protesting..

enough is enough..

we want worthy out

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I am in Nottingham so couldn''t make the meeting but I also want Worthy out. Looking through this thread there is at least 20 ppl who couldn''t make the meeting due to distance. I''m sure out of the 20''000 crowd a large majority have the same reasoning.

We''ll have to see how many turn up on Saturday. Get the hankies in the air!!

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sorry rocky, and to some of the worthy outer ''realists'' who maybe didn''t attend last night - didn''t explain myself very well.500+ is a significant number of people to attend a meeting and i believe roy blower said that even during the darkest moments of the chase out campaign the most that ever attended a ncisca meeting was 600 i presumed that the majority of fans in 96 wanted chase out if memory serves correctly - so naturally given the figures are relatively close to each other, and following the same rationale as then, i assumed it was reasonable to suggest most of the current city fans would like to see worthy go.  am i being unreal or unfair to think so?

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[quote user="rocky marshall"]

This action is pathetic and childlike - toys need to go back into the pram [/quote]

I''m interested to know from the anti-protest people, when a protest is legitimate and when it is "pathetic and childlike".

Were the anti-Chase protests pathetic (actually, I rather enjoyed them

as they brought a real comraderie to the fans)?   Not wanting

to compare our plight to those orders of magnitude more important, but

were the poll tax protests pathetic?

Or are just thse protests you don''t like pathetic?

In my mind, a protest is never pathetic and childlike just as long as

it''s carried out in a sensible and mature way.  Just because you

disagree, it doesn''t make everyone else an idiot.

A peaceful protest,a petition and not singing the club anthom are seen

by many as the best LONG TERM solution.  Most of us would agree

that this may not help on match day, but we all hope it will eventually.

At some stage you have to say enough is enough.  if you never

complain, never stand up for what you want, nothing ever changes. 

let''s never forget who pays the wages and why the club exists.

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That would be a fair assumption.

But you know what they say if you assume. Ass-U-Me.

You could also assume that there are exactly 500 WOers who all attended. You just can''t tell, so lets not speculate on irrelivent figures.

I think the important thing is to put your point across as an individual in the best way you can. It shouldn''t matter how many people agree or disagree with you. The point is YOU have made your stand. If your opinion is right, then people will follow.

Try not to concern yourself with what everyone else is doing. That kind of detracts from the point.

It took one tree to make a thousand matches, but it only took one match to burn a thousand trees.

 

 

 

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This is my first post, but I just had to say something.

I Just cannot understand those who keep on saying that those who want WORTHY OUT are a minority. I did not make the meeting last night, but I am fully persuaded that Worthington has to go! As I talk to Supporters of City I do not hear any support for Worthington, just people who have had enough of the rubbish on display at Carrow Road each match, dejection and disalusionment at team selection, tactics, and transfers. Yes there are those I know who sit on the fence but they are leaning more and more the WORTHY OUT way. The future of our club is at stake and I BELIEVE that with Worthy at the helm our future is BLEAK!!!

For Barry Skipper comments left me incenced! For his information I am middle aged, with a family, in my right mind, and a passionate supporter of Norwich City. I want the best for this club, and I firmly believe that has to mean the removal of Worthy and his staff. I found Barry Skippers comments an insult to all intellegant Norwich City supporters.

Nigel Worthington post match comments and excuses are those of a man who does not know what he is doing, and the same old record and the same old drivel to match what is served up on the pitch.

I cannot believe those who want WORTHY OUT are a minority. Those who suggest we are a minority I think are engaged in wishfull thinking! 

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Is it me or has Rocky made the same gash assumption as the Worthy Outers, but just in reverse.

The WOs claimed that 500 vs 3 at the meeting proved the majority. 

Clearly garbage, but considering how many people actually turn up to

any protest this isn''t actually too bad.

Rocky claims that 24000 vs the 500 proves his point.  More the

point Rocky claims the high ground by stating that the entire 24000 are

the slient majority.  Also clearly garbage, but does carry some

validity, in that the KTFers are less likely to get excited and rally

together, hence wouldn''t turn up to the meeting.

In response to not dumping your wife after 2 bad years...I''m surprised

that no one has pointed out that NCFC is far more important than women

and marriage and having to endure 1 more minute let alone another year

with the status quo (as in footy not music) is unbearable.

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this is possibly the most healthy debate ive ever witnessed on these boards. Excellent from all concerned and no mud slinging and name calling either!

Heres how it appears to me at this point.

The Team has had a dissappointing year. That involves many people; players, staff, fans etc. Some of the factors are controllable. You bring in players based on thei past ability. You rely on all the supporters turning up and supporting the team. You will try to play attractive football as that is te club tradition.

Some factors are uncontrollable. Injuries occur, the team has no consistency in selection (see previous), performance or results. The league has improved since we were last here and teams are fitter, more organised and are defensively more sound.

It has been stated on this board many times to fit many arguments that form is temporary, class is permanent. Ashton - class but didnt score for 11 this season. Drury - class defender but has some poor patches. WLY - intelligent footballer but sometimes just doesnt produce and leaves us frustrated.

So is the manager in a poor run of form now, the team in a poor run of form now or has a series of events transpired and created a rather unsurmoutable obstacle for this season? Possible Yes and possiblty no.

There is obviously a great deal to be said that in the current climate of mass media (internet included) the ability for people to come together quickly and create a mass movement towards something that they have a common interest in does make it a lot easier to mobilise forces. Therefore, these message boards have become a hotbed of debate however one sided they can become at times.

Reasoned and objective analysis needs to be employed. Everyone is dssappointed but is there a sense of those who are shouting loudest are drowning out the ones with a less united and forcable voice. Getting 500 people together is quite an achievement. Well publiscised and organised alledgedly. There are undoubtedly others out there with a similar viewpoint.

WE are all fans of the club. We all want the team to do well. but in a fast food, fast everything world we all want fast answers and fast fixes. Ferguson, Curbishley and allardyce are examples of clubs who have had consistency in their team management and, by and large they have had a measure of success. Of course their fans want more but what is their REALISTIC objectives for each season?

In the past 11 years NCFC have spent 10 years in Div 1 or Championship. So that is where we are. Yes we went to the Prem and it was nice but very few fans would have expected the club to stay beyond 1 year. Realistically given the divide it was always likely of a return to the Championship. But, and i will repeat, over five years of this current regieme things have got better.

No Youth is thrown out as an argument. So Green got his chance, Shackell, Jarvis, Henderson, Crow, Spillane has had a taste as has Rossi! Are they 1st team regular standard? debatable. And should we sacrifice the season to blood players when there is still a possiblity of success? Only you yourselves can decide that. We are all great Monday Morning managers.

Look at how many recent posts on a friday pick a team with either Spillane, Rossi, Jarv, or Hendo in. Very few. So there is a contradiction in terms here from those who purport to be supporters of the youth setup.

And in relation to Ipswichs'' Youth policy, dont forget they won the FA Youth Cup last season. Many of their YOUTH playrs have had a measure of success together. They are used to playing together. At Youth, Reserve and now at 1st team level.

Majority, minority or hung parliament. Tomorrows match will not say NW''s Team v Stoke. Its NCFC v SCFC. Norwich''s Team. If you dont believe it to be your team dont support it. Sit in the away section. But trying to sway those who are ambivilent or positive towards the team at the moment only serves to be divicive when everone knows that TEAM - together everyone achieves more!

Keep up the Good natured debate!

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I think fighting over who is and isn''t in the minority is not really productive and not the important issue. But it seems obvious that a large number of Norwich supporters of various ages and backgrounds all feel that the time has come for a change of management.

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Rocky,

Your most recent message on this thread is actually thought provoking and pretty balanced, pity you started the whole thing (above) with some tirades about ''pathetic'' and ''childlike'' and ''toys back in pram'' etc.

In addition your point about ITFC is totally wrong and must be corrected. Whilst the actual act of temporary administration was after Burley left, it was the financial extravagance of his reign that got them in the financial mess in the first place when £M''s were lavished on new stands,  new players transfer fees and long term contracts. Yes, I know that Sheepshanks wrote the cheques and Burley would not have made the decision on building work, he must still take some of the blame. Had Burley stayed are you honestly saying that the financial  meltdown would not have happened? Of course it would. It has been Joe Royle who has had to work with the wreckage and a damn good job he has done since he''s been there as well with a pittance to spend (unlike our boy Worthy!).

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Thats exactly what I was saying Marmite.

But sure enough, straight after that, the next few posts were back to "there are more KTFr''s that WOr''s" "oh no there aren''t" "oh yes there are" blah blah blah

 

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Yellow,

thanks 4 your thoughts! My comments re: childlike etc refer to the fact that like an unruly child that is not getting anywhere with their demands fro whatever (more crisps, more toys, more comics) by stamping his feet and shouting and screaming he creates a scene. A scene in which the childs eyes are totally understandable and justifiable yet to the parents and onlookers are not needed and just end up with the parents sticking to their guns.

So look at NCISA in this light. Makes a statement, nothing happens except the exact opposite of what they are secretly hoping - a run of good results. Rather than say sorry or balance the argument, they wait until another opening appears and then the behaviour is escalated.

Is the reaction of the club any different - seemingly not. Except and even greater determination to not give in. And like children in the supermarket, when they see one child kicking off, they all kick off! and so the whole thing escalates with everyone getting frustrated with the other and it all, literally ending in tears.

There are many extenuating circumstances to the current situation, as have been eluded to before so no need to repeat. These mitigating cicumstances must be included in the debate. They cannot be dismissed as unadmissable evidence due to the fact that we dont like the evidence. Injuries happen, form happens, personalities clash etc. Thats football, sport and life.

As to the financial situation at ipswich this should in fact show the club (NCFC) in a good light. There has been careful development of infrastructure without selling the heir looms. Playing budgets have in fact been extremely low in terms of Premiership spending, and hardly monumental in terms of Championship spending. Burley did indeed spend money THAT HE WAS GIVEN. But he also grew some players too and balanced the two.

Serini would never have been bought if Andy Marshall hadnyt crocked his back! It was a banic buy when they need a good keeper and they were in Europe too. They had a lot more money in YR2 of the Prem due to their finishing position.

Meltdown came from overreaching at the top. Burley has proved over the years that he can manage well on little money and, prior to leaving Hearts, with decent backing!

And without trying to sound like an Ipswich fan, they have shown great patience as fans with an immense amount of dissappointment. 5 or 6 playoff failures in 10 years! Yet only 2 managers in maybe 14 years (excluding Mowbray). Have htey had protests, hankie waving, non singing etc. Not sure to be honest!

As i mentioned previously, Royle has inherited a good youth setup which is producing regularly and now. But since the last major harvest of Llewellyn, Bellamy, Coote etc, there have only been dribs and drabs at Norwich.

As i said previously its good to see that this is a healthy debate which has still managed to keep the extrtemely opinionated at bay. Keep up the good work!

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