Have we just bought Marcelino Núñez for $4 million?

[hepphep 175]

Pretty exciting signing, based on that one video only!

Few thoughts from it. Seems good dribbler, but tempo and physicality of game was lots lower than in average Championship game. I'd expect that he will need some time to adjust his own game to work in such. However, quick feet and if his thinking is fast enough, he could adapt in a month or two. His shooting and passing technique seemed to be excellent. Really smooth touch in those free kicks. In a way, did never seem to try to force them with excessive power, but instead made them look smooth and easy. That gives a lot of promise of him having skills to feed Pukki. Of course, now its all about finding space to do it in higher tempo.

So, expecting some adjustment period to be required, but has some qualities that could make him a top signing.

But then again, its only one highlight clip!

[Nuff Said 5,089]

44 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Hopefully better than the ones in Greece😉

I thought you were referring to curry empanadas for a moment. Greek/Indian/Chilean fusion food.

[chicken 2,604]

6 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

That’s fair enough, but surely people are also allowed to be concerned at not knowing who these players are especially after last seasons Summer signings instead of getting ****ing crucified for being a little wary or is that not allowed either?

Perhaps just express what you feel without having to comment on how others do?

You'll note folks who are feeling optimistic, for the most part (it's really just me), aren't being so whilst being critical of other people's responses. Where as you often get the "I don't see why people are getting all excited, anyone looks good in a youtube video" then rattle off a list of players that were not successful etc.

I don't think some people realise, others certainly do, that this isn't stating what you think but criticising others for what they think.

The Celtic game was a massive example of this, hence pant wetter got thrown around. Some people were just glad to see the end of last season and were happily looking out for any positives to get themselves going for next season. We had some good results and then an excellent one against Marseille. Most people didn't go over the top, and were saying "good performance, but of course, this is pre-season and the real test is the league proper" type comments.

Then comes Celtic and people are declaring that all of that slowly swirling optimism others had grown was misplaced, how badly the club is run, our signings are rubbish, people were silly to think we could finish in the top half of the table etc etc etc. Generally, the pessimists are always that bit more personal.

I wasn't crucifying you either by the way. Having been to Roman Catholic schools though... I am well versed in how that is done... 😉😅

 

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

28 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I thought you were referring to curry empanadas for a moment. Greek/Indian/Chilean fusion food.

Sounds good to me 👍

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Free hit really. He cant be any less effective than PLM and for the same price. Looks to have quick feet. Could be great.

Thing is though, I always wonder why, if he is that good, he hasnt been snapped up already? Our problem will always be that we can only ever sign players our rivals dont want - ie let us have. We werent able/willing to compete with the likes of Brentford and look what happened. We will only sign players with Premier League capability if PL clubs dont want them. So they're unlikely to be good enough.

That said, if either Sara or Nunez adapt well to English football then we will likely be able to sell them for more than we paid. 

The big story here of course is Buendia. Still think he is brilliant. From what I gather jury is out at Villa. We got him for a steal at £1.2m up front, so clearly wasnt too highly rated at Getafe and not really on anyone else's radar - so unearthing them IS possible.

[CANARYKING 634]

Apparently he’s got one more game to play, well you know what’s going to happen 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

2 hours ago, Block Y Seat 176 said:

Or a bluff🤔 they never wanted Kone😲

OR KONE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED BY ALIENS AND IS NOW ENGROSSED IN A GALACTIC FIGHT FOR THE FREEDOM OF HUMANKIND.

I suspect it's just a case of not being able to agree terms. 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

I never normally get excited over youtube videos but a CM who can hold onto the ball and dribble around players? Yes please! We've been dying for a player like that for so long. Because all our other CM's have been good for is pass and move if teams pressed us we always had no answer, having a player like this in midfiled will hopefully mean we can get round teams who try to pressure us, finally!

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

5 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Free hit really. He cant be any less effective than PLM and for the same price. Looks to have quick feet. Could be great.

Thing is though, I always wonder why, if he is that good, he hasnt been snapped up already? Our problem will always be that we can only ever sign players our rivals dont want - ie let us have. We werent able/willing to compete with the likes of Brentford and look what happened. We will only sign players with Premier League capability if PL clubs dont want them. So they're unlikely to be good enough.

That said, if either Sara or Nunez adapt well to English football then we will likely be able to sell them for more than we paid. 

The big story here of course is Buendia. Still think he is brilliant. From what I gather jury is out at Villa. We got him for a steal at £1.2m up front, so clearly wasnt too highly rated at Getafe and not really on anyone else's radar - so unearthing them IS possible.

This is our perpetual issue and we are feeding from the scraps unless we unearth a gem, which in the world of media is so hugely unlikely and less so given the restrictions of qualifying work permits etc. Important context however that we are likely above several others in our current league in getting the best scraps, so it’s all relative. I think the club developing scouting networks in continents where less scouting exists relative to our rivals also helps and may well turn out to be one of the cleverest strategies we have, but I confess to not having much knowledge of our competitors scouting networks to compare 

Edited July 28, 2022 by SwearyCanary

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

4 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

This is our perpetual issue and we are feeding from the scraps unless we unearth a gem, which in the world of media is so hugely unlikely and less so given the restrictions of qualifying work permits etc. Important context however that we are likely above several others in our current league in getting the best scraps, so it’s all relative. I think the club developing scouting networks in continents where less scouting exists relative to our rivals also helps and may well turn out to be one of the cleverest strategies we have, but I confess to not having much knowledge of our competitors scouting networks to compare 

I cant believe that, considering he has 10 caps for Chile, the majority of the Premier League arent aware of him. He's not some prodigy playing in youth football. Everyone in Chile will know all about him, therefore he will be well known in South America. I would imagine all Premier League clubs have scouting networks in South America, and with the existance of data/statistics/prozone and the like, even completely unknown players can come to the attention of the data geeks (Smith purports to be one) - see Moneyball.

Whilst this sounds exciting because he looks twinkle-toed and none of us have ever heard of him, ditto Sara, reality is I imagine most clubs with PL ambitions have considered him and said 'Nah'. Then along come Norwich.

Remember, whenever we think we have stolen someone from under the noses of the big boys and pulled off a coup, RvW, Tzolis - we really havent.

Hoping these signings really come off. Just tempering my excitement with a bit of realism. I've been hurt before!

[Nuff Said 5,089]

9 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

This is our perpetual issue and we are feeding from the scraps unless we unearth a gem, which in the world of media is so hugely unlikely and less so given the restrictions of qualifying work permits etc. Important context however that we are likely above several others in our current league in getting the best scraps however, so it’s all relative. I think the club developing scouting networks in less developed continents relative to our rivals also helps and may well turn out to be one of the cleverest strategies we have, but I confess to not having much knowledge of our competitors scouting networks to compare 

I don’t understand why this is seen as an issue. It’s likely that every club has slightly different criteria for what they want. One club might be looking for an established, hit the  ground running player for a specific position, another might insist on players they know have a degree of aggression, or ball retention, or no one over 30 or whatever. Some clubs are more “moneyball” in their approach, others rely on the manager’s judgement. There definitely an element with us of looking for undiscovered, ignored or marked down gems, like Emi because of his alleged attitude issues, or Krul after serious injury. So one club’s target may not be to another’s taste. Plus we clearly believe there is less focus on South America from other clubs, which is why he may have been missed.

[Nuff Said 5,089]

2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Remember, whenever we think we have stolen someone from under the noses of the big boys and pulled off a coup, RvW, Tzolis - we really havent.

Sometimes we haven’t pulled off a coup, but sometimes we have - Emi and Teemu for two.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Free-kick specialist. Ooooohhhh. Now THAT is something we have needed for a long time. Now if only we could learn to defend them

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

9 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I cant believe that, considering he has 10 caps for Chile, the majority of the Premier League arent aware of him. He's not some prodigy playing in youth football. Everyone in Chile will know all about him, therefore he will be well known in South America. I would imagine all Premier League clubs have scouting networks in South America, and with the existance of data/statistics/prozone and the like, even completely unknown players can come to the attention of the data geeks (Smith purports to be one) - see Moneyball.

Whilst this sounds exciting because he looks twinkle-toed and none of us have ever heard of him, ditto Sara, reality is I imagine most clubs with PL ambitions have considered him and said 'Nah'. Then along come Norwich.

Remember, whenever we think we have stolen someone from under the noses of the big boys and pulled off a coup, RvW, Tzolis - we really havent.

Hoping these signings really come off. Just tempering my excitement with a bit of realism. I've been hurt before!

I am not saying we have got a hidden gem, more that we have got the best a championship club can buy who I’d agree is not I the interest of the EPL clubs. I’m more saying that he likely represents the best of the rest and I refer to our competitors as other Championship clubs, such is our ‘natural’ place in the hierarchy 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Sometimes we haven’t pulled off a coup, but sometimes we have - Emi and Teemu for two.

Teemu I think we rather stumbled upon. I dont think anyone looked at him and thought 'aha, now there's a 30 goal a season striker'. 

Free punt really I think rather than inspired scouting, his record previously never suggested what was about to come - just ask Celtic fans.

Pukki arguably benefitted from the exact opposite of what happened when we signed RvW. We smashed our record for a fox in the box type player who scored most of his goals from converting crossed from fast conventional wingers on the counter-attack - and then completely ignored that and played him up front on his own, with inverted wingers and a slow-building 'attacking' style. Completely unsuited to his game. We should have built our team around RvW if we thought he was good enough to break our record for.

I think we rather stumbled on Pukki's prolificness, in that he played with Buendia, whose game perfectly suited Pukki's. Remember we have yet to see Pukki as an effective scorer really without Buendia.

Im not saying Pukki was being carried by Buendia, but he was the major benefactor, and found himself playing in a team that played a way which was perfect for his game. It may be that he never found himself in such a set-up wherever else he had been, and as long as we continue to play Pukki's game then he will score goals.

But the point Im trying to make is that I dont think anyone ever expected Pukki to be the striker he became. I dont think we signed him out of inspired itk scouting. I think he was likely to have been a freebie punt we stumbled on

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

5 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

I am not saying we have got a hidden gem, more that we have got the best a championship club can buy who I’d agree is not I the interest of the EPL clubs. I’m more saying that he likely represents the best of the rest and I refer to our competitors as other Championship clubs, such is our ‘natural’ place in the hierarchy 

Im not interested in consolidating for the Championship. If this club has any ambition, we shouldnt be signing or developing any players we dont think can at some point be effective at Premier League level.

At 22, Im happy for us to be signing a championship standard player, as long as we think he has the potential to at some point be able to perform at Premier League level.

We shouldnt be signing championship journeymen - which lets face it is what we did with Jordan Hugill. End result, couldnt flog him when we got promoted to had to resort to farming him out. Now he's back, which is fine because this is his level. But if we're ever serious about being a PL team, we cannot be making signings like that. We never even gave him a chance in the PL which means we never thought he was that standard.

As long as we think Hayden, Sara and Nunez have PL futures then Im happy.

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

4 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Looking likely. 

 

Notwithstanding the much slower pace of the league he's in, I see why some are comparing him to Buendia with that turning in off the right flank and his range of passing. Seems to have his head up a lot, and he does have some wonderfully quick feet and balance.

But I see more of a Vrancic in there as Emi tended to run his passes through, whereas this guy seems to like a floated ball far more often. To be fair, on set pieces, I think we'd all take Mario over Emi. Not sure he's got the same tigerish approach off the ball as Emi had, and a highlight reel will never really show much in terms of petulance (which Emi also had). He also looks to me to have an odd combination of fast feet and a somewhat languid approach.

Doesn't look physically the most robust of lads. Buendia was a classic "small but stocky" sort. Nunez looks like he might need a bit of time borrowing the Onel Hernandez Weight Training Manual. 

Will be an intriguing prospect, I'm not sure he'll hit the deck running, but at least he should be match fit.

[chicken 2,604]

33 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Thing is though, I always wonder why, if he is that good, he hasnt been snapped up already?

Tbh I think this is relatively clear. The leagues we are now shopping in are due to two things... Erm, post referendum rules changes for work permits which means that players need to have accrued enough points coupled with valuation in some leagues.

If we want to sign someone from Europe who represents potential and future value, it is going to be highly unlikely they will have enough points to get a permit or even make an appeal for one. Those that do have enough points are going to be in demand, which means their valuation is going to be higher.

Add to this the issue of anyone in the English leagues are also going to cost more you can see that we are painted into a corner really. We need to look for good value for our model to work, that is no longer in Europe or the EFL as those markets charge a premium. So we are now looking at South, Central and North America - it would appear. Leagues not traditionally seen as preferential for recruitment.

Some of that will be because when we were inside the EU we could freely recruit from any other EU nation or one with a freedom of movement agreement with the EU without any issue or delay. Now the rest of the world is as easy to recruit from in the sense that top leagues and internationals, football wise, are going to be a bit easier to find in relatively untapped markets.

In other words, the risks are probably higher and we cannot afford the majority of players who are internationals for most EU sides. 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Notwithstanding the much slower pace of the league he's in, I see why some are comparing him to Buendia with that turning in off the right flank and his range of passing. Seems to have his head up a lot, and he does have some wonderfully quick feet and balance.

But I see more of a Vrancic in there as Emi tended to run his passes through, whereas this guy seems to like a floated ball far more often. To be fair, on set pieces, I think we'd all take Mario over Emi. Not sure he's got the same tigerish approach off the ball as Emi had, and a highlight reel will never really show much in terms of petulance (which Emi also had). He also looks to me to have an odd combination of fast feet and a somewhat languid approach.

Doesn't look physically the most robust of lads. Buendia was a classic "small but stocky" sort. Nunez looks like he might need a bit of time borrowing the Onel Hernandez Weight Training Manual. 

Will be an intriguing prospect, I'm not sure he'll hit the deck running, but at least he should be match fit.

The most underappreciated aspect of Emi's game (perhaps not by Norwich fans) was his defensive contribution. Even though we played him as a right winger, I tend to think of him more as a central midfield playmaker, as often you would find him dropping deep to collect the ball and playing Pukki in. He wasnt a player that was waiting to receive the ball on the wing. That might have been hs starting position in the formation, but he played very deep a lot of the time, which was perhaps what affected his goalscoring until he ultimately added goals to his game. Id be interested to see his heat maps from peak Buendia with us. I have no idea how he is being utilised at Villa.

But if you look at his defensive stats from when he was with us, they're really not what an outside observer who knew little more than his position and his stature would expect.

Fabulous player. Such a shame we werent able to keep him a bit longer

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

7 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

 Nunez looks like he might need a bit of time borrowing the Onel Hernandez Weight Training Manual. 

I definitely thought there were some comparisons to be made with Hernandez.

Less so now perhaps, but second season with us Onel seemed to be like a little pitbull. Not only fast, but strong as well. He's not quite that player anymore, but when he was he was very exciting.

I cant remember if he notably improved his physique, but certainly there have been some players who have come back from pre-season with a transformed physique either through training or natural ageing. I know he gets slagged off for his physique still, but Im thinking about Cantwell, who one season looked like a boy wearing his Dad's shirt, to looking somewhat buff

[Canaries north 151]

17 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

I am not saying we have got a hidden gem, more that we have got the best a championship club can buy who I’d agree is not I the interest of the EPL clubs. I’m more saying that he likely represents the best of the rest and I refer to our competitors as other Championship clubs, such is our ‘natural’ place in the hierarchy 

This could be fun if it happens. My Watford friend is salivating over their new South American Asprilla. I wonder who will have got the better deal. Similar prices but Asprilla is a few years younger. My only concern is they have been tapping that market for years with great success, so its a battle of the scouts. 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

1 minute ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

The most underappreciated aspect of Emi's game (perhaps not by Norwich fans) was his defensive contribution. Even though we played him as a right winger, I tend to think of him more as a central midfield playmaker, as often you would find him dropping deep to collect the ball and playing Pukki in. He wasnt a player that was waiting to receive the ball on the wing. That might have been hs starting position in the formation, but he played very deep a lot of the time, which was perhaps what affected his goalscoring until he ultimately added goals to his game. Id be interested to see his heat maps from peak Buendia with us. I have no idea how he is being utilised at Villa.

But if you look at his defensive stats from when he was with us, they're really not what an outside observer who knew little more than his position and his stature would expect.

Fabulous player. Such a shame we werent able to keep him a bit longer

Yep, agreed. And the bit that gets missed is such a contribution enabled Aarons to push forward far more down his flank to help pin the opposition in. From what appears to be said, this guy has a similar schtick in terms of picking the ball up quite deep and out on the right, then pushing forward in possession. Those turns in and bursts across and away from an opponent to drive into space are VERY Emi-like.

We really need to see his defensive game. Even against weaker Championship sides, they'll often force a physical battle such that our team is literally pushed onto the defensive. He looks like he could be a good short-range out ball, but if he can't do much defensively, then really he's just going to be Billy Gilmour mark 2.

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I definitely thought there were some comparisons to be made with Hernandez.

Less so now perhaps, but second season with us Onel seemed to be like a little pitbull. Not only fast, but strong as well. He's not quite that player anymore, but when he was he was very exciting.

I cant remember if he notably improved his physique, but certainly there have been some players who have come back from pre-season with a transformed physique either through training or natural ageing. I know he gets slagged off for his physique still, but Im thinking about Cantwell, who one season looked like a boy wearing his Dad's shirt, to looking somewhat buff

The Hernandez comparison (or Rashica for that matter) would be his feet and his turning in tight spaces. Onel looked like he'd had a injury then went into the weights room as part of his rehab, then nuked it. If anything, I think he lost a yard of acceleration and a yard of pace, but became harder to knock off the ball.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

The biggest problem last season I think we all agree was our central midfield. We lost Skipp and Emi, and didnt even seem to attempt to replace their vital roles. We simultaneously lost all our creative flair and our defensive solidity. Add in Cantwell downing tools, when the script was written for him to step up and fill the Emi-shaped void then our midfield was criminal last season.

Gilmour was supposed to offer ball retention and passing, but did neither of these things. Normann at times looked our only genuine PL player, but was never able to produce this consistently. I used to wet the bed at the thought that relegation would mean we couldnt sign him on a permanent, but after the second half of the season, really not bothered. If he'd have said he loved the club so much he was willing to play championship football (he said the opposite), then Id still take him, but not for the mooted £11-16m.

McLean and Rupp were never PL quality. PLM was a punt and though he looked promising in pre-season it always looked like we werent buying a player with genuine quality and so it proved.

 

BUT. If Nunez is confirmed you could argue that on paper, our signings so far are exactly what we needed. Sara you could compare to Skipp, Nunez you could compare to Emi, and Hayden may well be the defensive midfielder we've been crying out for for years.

That Smith and Shakespeare have seemingly addressed the obvious holes in the team is encouraging. The lack of flair without Hernandez or Buendia last season however was dire.

Id love to see both Rashica and Hernandez running riot on opposite flanks this year. Who knows, Sargent might even be up to playing as a striker at this level

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

You just know with some posters, if he scores 5, they’ll say we needed to buy someone who scores 10. If he scores 10, we needed someone to score 15… 🤷‍♂️

And that's just the Goalies.

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

The biggest problem last season I think we all agree was our central midfield. We lost Skipp and Emi, and didnt even seem to attempt to replace their vital roles. We simultaneously lost all our creative flair and our defensive solidity. Add in Cantwell downing tools, when the script was written for him to step up and fill the Emi-shaped void then our midfield was criminal last season.

Gilmour was supposed to offer ball retention and passing, but did neither of these things. Normann at times looked our only genuine PL player, but was never able to produce this consistently. I used to wet the bed at the thought that relegation would mean we couldnt sign him on a permanent, but after the second half of the season, really not bothered. If he'd have said he loved the club so much he was willing to play championship football (he said the opposite), then Id still take him, but not for the mooted £11-16m.

McLean and Rupp were never PL quality. PLM was a punt and though he looked promising in pre-season it always looked like we werent buying a player with genuine quality and so it proved.

 

BUT. If Nunez is confirmed you could argue that on paper, our signings so far are exactly what we needed. Sara you could compare to Skipp, Nunez you could compare to Emi, and Hayden may well be the defensive midfielder we've been crying out for for years.

That Smith and Shakespeare have seemingly addressed the obvious holes in the team is encouraging. The lack of flair without Hernandez or Buendia last season however was dire.

Id love to see both Rashica and Hernandez running riot on opposite flanks this year. Who knows, Sargent might even be up to playing as a striker at this level

Hayden's more like Skipp. Sara looks more box-to-box than Skipp ever was. If anything, from what I see on the highlights, Sara looks like an attempted McLean upgrade.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, Ken Hairy said:

Sounds good to me 👍

I saw no issues either . 👌

[Canario 203]

Love that we are looking more in the Americas. The one thing that needs checking is personality...the talent is everywhere but just a case of getting the right ones in. Basically those who are disciplined and don't believe they are CR7 in disguise!! 

Surprised we aren't also looking here in Mexico, since we are obviously browsing the MLS. 

[Icecream Snow 761]

If true would be fine on the work permit front

[Six Pack 91]

7 hours ago, ron obvious said:

He looks about 40 😀. But he's only 22 so that's fine.

Great on the video - as they always do. All depends on the defending they're up against - & if they can cope with an upgrade.

Fingers crossed.

that makes him an old head on young shoulders ! which makes a nice  change cos we usually recruit young heads on old shoulders !