Is anyone convinced by Dean Smith?

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

31 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Yes, I struggle to believe you’ve watched enough Championship football sufficient to make that kind of a judgement on it whilst also having to factor in changes in management, styles of football, changes in player personnel over the summer etc…   I think most would have difficulty believing that.  To me, that’s a lot of football you’d have to watch!

If you have then I apologise for suggesting that.       
 

Still though, if you have watched that much you’ve not backed that up with examples to support you assertion that our individuals are better than opponents.   I don’t think anyone can rationally do that either way at this stage especially given the utter dross we were treated to last season.  How can you compare since we had different levels of opponents?     I’m a B licence coach and I can’t do that off the TV.      It’s hearsay.

But I have put forward reasonable points in response to your comments in any event explaining my point!

You said ‘Smith had a good enough squad for playoffs, bare minimum’, but didn’t back it up with comparison and all I did was question that and I have backed up that opinion with some reasons for it.    You didn’t support your point with example and I don’t think you can!   Similarly, I can’t answer your request for 6 teams with supposed better quality than the list you provided of our so far unimpressive wide men.    But I did answer it with other factors as to why those players and this team don’t deserve that kind of expectation.   

Would agree, it is a shame!   Quite often, I tend to agree with you and / or at least understand we’re your coming from, just on this occasion, don’t think your point is as rationed as they usually are.    

Surely the burden of debate should start with you naming players or squads you think ARE better than ours? If Hoggy has said that there are only 1-2 other sides and a small handful of players better than our first 11 surely he shouldn’t have to then name every other player in the division to prove the point? Much easier to make a smaller number that are. 

That said, although like Hoggy I watched the championship as much as possible last year as it’s on free TV and it was clear we were going down from early on. Plus I just spend all day watching or reading about sport in general. I still agree that the ins and outs and all possible changed variables in the summer do make any claim very difficult. I’d have to agree that on paper it mostly looks like we should be there or close enough to be top 6 and honestly, anything short of that would be a huge failure. I think by October we will know either way, much like this year. The pre Christmas spell is absolutely key as I also think we could rely on a strong early position to utilise January for once and strengthen or keep hold of a few prospects that are on the cusp of leaving 

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

Whoosh, way to go to miss the point.  It’s all about expectation - promotion wasn’t the main goal at either when he was there.  It obviously was at Villa.

This really is a pointless discussion - you clearly don’t like/rate the guy, that’s life.  I’m sure he can live with it, and I know I can.

Rubbish, at Brentford the manager before him got to the playoffs and the manager after him got to the playoffs then promotion. so its perfectly reasonable to expect to be vying for promotion! 

You say you can live with it but it appears you really don't like people pointing out he isn't a great manager.

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by wheres my rebate gone?

[ged in the onion bag 855]

35 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

Surely the burden of debate should start with you naming players or squads you think ARE better than ours? If Hoggy has said that there are only 1-2 other sides and a small handful of players better than our first 11 surely he shouldn’t have to then name every other player in the division to prove the point? Much easier to make a smaller number that are. 

That said, although like Hoggy I watched the championship as much as possible last year as it’s on free TV and it was clear we were going down from early on. Plus I just spend all day watching or reading about sport in general. I still agree that the ins and outs and all possible changed variables in the summer do make any claim very difficult. I’d have to agree that on paper it mostly looks like we should be there or close enough to be top 6 and honestly, anything short of that would be a huge failure. I think by October we will know either way, much like this year. The pre Christmas spell is absolutely key as I also think we could rely on a strong early position to utilise January for once and strengthen or keep hold of a few prospects that are on the cusp of leaving 

But my point was never about individual players and Hoggy didn't identify a 'smaller number that are better than ours' (not a criticism Hoggy, just responding to Sweary's statement)...  I get the feeling on this forum that too many fans think we will walk into the play-offs at least and that expectation will come back to bite us on the backside when and if we don't because the pressure that will come to bear on these players could make the situation very troubling.     These players haven't done enough in my view to warrant the expectation, they were rank bad last year.     Lets hope they do step up. 

I think I argued my point a lot differently, one its difficult to compare us to others, what evidence do we have (except for blind bias) that our players are better given what they produced last season, plus the fact that this lot were carried to the previous promotion by Emi, Skipp and Teemu in a very different playing philosophy.... but moreso, there are other issues I argued, confidence, belief, (important things our players are unlikely to have at present) Smith has that to contend with and resolve.... its also a team game about selecting the right players and in positions / formations that work, ideally with identity where we are currently in transition it seems and don't have one.... further we have a group of players used to playing Farkeball, can they adapt quickly to Smith's approach since we haven't made significant changes to the personnel.   Farke had over a year until his philosophy started producing results.

Right now, Smith hasn't got a functioning central midfield or it seems central defence.... the spine of the team.    Do we have the right creativity to feed Pukki?   I am not sure we have unless Cantwell can supply it.     Have we got the pace required to be unpredictable and worry opponents, again not sure.... we don't have that if we select Cantwell, Sargent, Sinani and Dowell regularly, they all seem very similar and are in most fans picks for selection next week.   On paper thats fine but a Rowe or Springett or Hernandez would make sense since they offer something different, they can go by players, get them turned and worried.  

.....see, even you are determining October as a guide, this expectation, is it really fair on Smith and the players?    I'm not sure myself how they will respond but we have no option but to give them time.     Part of that reasoning is why I would include more youngsters and sign other options to develop at the expense of McLean, Dowell, Gibson, Sargent, Hugill so we can try to produce a squad of players who could offer something if and when we do get promoted.

 

 

[Block Y Seat 176 80]

On 23/07/2022 at 17:05, AJ said:

I haven't seen anything improve since Farke left in all honesty and all the main issues were still very clearly on display again today. Yes we've got Hayden and Sara to come in but clearly the system as a whole doesn't work.

I've not seen Smith stamp anything on this squad whatsoever. Farke came in and made it clear we were doing things a certain way. Alex Neil did similar. Smith seems to just let them do what they want and sadly they don't seem to know what they're doing.

Cantwell is player who seems to be rejuvenated close season. I’m going to put that down to the management team and Todd himself. If SAS can lift others in the group then you have a good base for the season. Glass half full for me and ready for a top up🍻. 

[sgncfc 1,225]

I always look at other teams and the number of their players I would prefer over ours. 

There are better goalkeepers in the Champs than we have - but both of ours are in the top six. Back four - I think our first choice selection of Aarons, Hanley, Omo and Dimi are hard to beat. Midfield - too early to call, but (despite so many of you hating him) Maclean would get in pretty much every other Champs midfield, as would Cantwell in the 10 slot if he is indeed rejuvenated.

Forwards - no one to touch Pukki. Rashica as a winger is right up there.

So, who would we get to improve our first choice team from other Champs teams? Saar and Dennis at Watford. McNeill and maybe Barnes at Burnley. Piroe at Swansea. Hamer at Coventry, and maybe a few others

I reckon we have 5 or 6 of the best 11 if everyone voted for a Champs 11 at the moment. That will change and people will come through of course. But at the start of the season, we have more chance than anyone else of winning it.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

Simple answer for me so far is no, I’ll give him 10 games 

[chicken 2,624]

7 hours ago, jaberry2 said:

You cant really judge Smith too early on, but appreciate he has shown very little in terms of his preffered methods etc. He has inherited a team not able to compete at the top level and has a task regaining confidence throughout the squad, coupled with new signings and putting his stamp on the team. We'll have more of an idea on how much has changed after 10 games.

There is also another caveat to all of this... that Smith led Villa were not promoted as champions, but they did stay up at the first time of asking. Yes, they also spent £100m to assemble the squad they had largely loaned... but the point I am butchering here is that perhaps, just perhaps, you can't be good at both winning the championship and easily transferring that to the premier league?

Michael Bailey made a really good point in his post match youtube video after the Celtic game, he felt Celtic took risks that sides in better leagues wouldn't take, because they would more likely get punished by them. I honestly feel that would include the championship. It's case in point that you can be confident at one level, even superb at it, but also perhaps, just too good at it?

I think that's why we see defensive teams do well, because whilst you face better attackers in the premier league, if you are proficient at defending, you are still going to limit their chances, and not every team has a player that'll be able to unlock that, or even players.

The end result is, we may well be less convincing this year, but that doesn't translate into no promotion or even, not being more competitive in the premier league. It's too tough a call to be made right now.

[Indy 3,296]

1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

I always look at other teams and the number of their players I would prefer over ours. 

There are better goalkeepers in the Champs than we have - but both of ours are in the top six. Back four - I think our first choice selection of Aarons, Hanley, Omo and Dimi are hard to beat. Midfield - too early to call, but (despite so many of you hating him) Maclean would get in pretty much every other Champs midfield, as would Cantwell in the 10 slot if he is indeed rejuvenated.

Forwards - no one to touch Pukki. Rashica as a winger is right up there.

So, who would we get to improve our first choice team from other Champs teams? Saar and Dennis at Watford. McNeill and maybe Barnes at Burnley. Piroe at Swansea. Hamer at Coventry, and maybe a few others

I reckon we have 5 or 6 of the best 11 if everyone voted for a Champs 11 at the moment. That will change and people will come through of course. But at the start of the season, we have more chance than anyone else of winning it.

So what you’re saying is that if we don’t perform it’s not down to the team or squad but Smith & the coaching staff?

[Branston Pickle 3,651]

7 hours ago, wheres my rebate gone? said:

Rubbish, at Brentford the manager before him got to the playoffs and the manager after him got to the playoffs then promotion. so its perfectly reasonable to expect to be vying for promotion! 

You say you can live with it but it appears you really don't like people pointing out he isn't a great manager.

 

All that does is show you don’t know much about Brentford, but that’s fine. I’ve been watching them over spare weekends for 10+ years, as I have a number of friends with s/t (though oddly didn’t get to go last season) and have even been a Member there to save ££.  I have a history of posting about it if you choose to look, so I do have a fair idea what I’m talking about, but as I say it is what it is.

Tbh I really couldn’t care less that you think differently or, ultimately, who our manager is as long as we are performing.  It’s more that whoever it is simply deserves a fair chance. Belittling Smith’s record is simply daft. 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

7 minutes ago, Indy said:

So what you’re saying is that if we don’t perform it’s not down to the team or squad but Smith & the coaching staff?

The greater opinion, obviously biased, seems to be that we have better players than virtually the rest of the division.

If true, then if we don't perform, it is down to the coach.

[komakino 272]

I think the relationship between Smith & Webber has much to do with how long the former might be given. If cracks appear early, it won't be the latter that walks. 

[sgncfc 1,225]

49 minutes ago, Indy said:

So what you’re saying is that if we don’t perform it’s not down to the team or squad but Smith & the coaching staff?

Yes, partly. As long as the players do their jobs on the pitch - which they didn't do last year, Pukki excepted. (But even if they had, I don't think the players were ever good enough to keep us up).

We have the same problem of course, that very few of this squad are good enough to keep us in the PL.

[Indy 3,296]

10 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Yes, partly. As long as the players do their jobs on the pitch - which they didn't do last year, Pukki excepted. (But even if they had, I don't think the players were ever good enough to keep us up).

We have the same problem of course, that very few of this squad are good enough to keep us in the PL.

I’m not sure they’re good enough to get us up this season, the fragility in the team and the lack of identity is concerning. We shall see….💛💚👍

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

7 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

But my point was never about individual players and Hoggy didn't identify a 'smaller number that are better than ours' (not a criticism Hoggy, just responding to Sweary's statement)...  I get the feeling on this forum that too many fans think we will walk into the play-offs at least and that expectation will come back to bite us on the backside when and if we don't because the pressure that will come to bear on these players could make the situation very troubling.     These players haven't done enough in my view to warrant the expectation, they were rank bad last year.     Lets hope they do step up. 

I think I argued my point a lot differently, one its difficult to compare us to others, what evidence do we have (except for blind bias) that our players are better given what they produced last season, plus the fact that this lot were carried to the previous promotion by Emi, Skipp and Teemu in a very different playing philosophy.... but moreso, there are other issues I argued, confidence, belief, (important things our players are unlikely to have at present) Smith has that to contend with and resolve.... its also a team game about selecting the right players and in positions / formations that work, ideally with identity where we are currently in transition it seems and don't have one.... further we have a group of players used to playing Farkeball, can they adapt quickly to Smith's approach since we haven't made significant changes to the personnel.   Farke had over a year until his philosophy started producing results.

Right now, Smith hasn't got a functioning central midfield or it seems central defence.... the spine of the team.    Do we have the right creativity to feed Pukki?   I am not sure we have unless Cantwell can supply it.     Have we got the pace required to be unpredictable and worry opponents, again not sure.... we don't have that if we select Cantwell, Sargent, Sinani and Dowell regularly, they all seem very similar and are in most fans picks for selection next week.   On paper thats fine but a Rowe or Springett or Hernandez would make sense since they offer something different, they can go by players, get them turned and worried.  

.....see, even you are determining October as a guide, this expectation, is it really fair on Smith and the players?    I'm not sure myself how they will respond but we have no option but to give them time.     Part of that reasoning is why I would include more youngsters and sign other options to develop at the expense of McLean, Dowell, Gibson, Sargent, Hugill so we can try to produce a squad of players who could offer something if and when we do get promoted.

 

 

Fair points well made. I think the October deadline for me represents what I’d see as a realistic spell to determine if we have what it takes to be up there rather than whether we sack Smith. I’d go full season and signs of progress from last year to gauge my view on Smith’s future. I think Sinani represents the benchmark as a ‘top 6’ midfielder last year and I’m not sure I see him as a starter for us with Dowell fit so would hope that we are at least in that playoff bracket with what we have 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,530]

On 24/07/2022 at 15:10, ged in the onion bag said:

Not convinced at all that this squad is good enough for Top 6.    Fear we don’t have adequate creativity, pace or tenacity. This squad or moreover starting XI needs a freshen up.   We don’t have anything except Pukki and Cantwell that’s going to frighten opponents.    Am still expecting that Cantwell’s re-emergence will raise enough confidence for an EPL club to offer a sum we couldn’t refuse…. That happens, we’ll have even less threat!

Overall, I think Webber has proven that he's a good judge of what's needed to win promotion from the Championship; his assessment at the end of the season was that we already had the players to win promotion again, so I've no reason to doubt his assessment.

[hogesar 9,654]

12 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

All that does is show you don’t know much about Brentford, but that’s fine. I’ve been watching them over spare weekends for 10+ years, as I have a number of friends with s/t (though oddly didn’t get to go last season) and have even been a Member there to save ££.  I have a history of posting about it if you choose to look, so I do have a fair idea what I’m talking about, but as I say it is what it is.

Tbh I really couldn’t care less that you think differently or, ultimately, who our manager is as long as we are performing.  It’s more that whoever it is simply deserves a fair chance. Belittling Smith’s record is simply daft. 

 

Eww, you have genuine experience and evidence to support your viewpoint. We don't like that round these parts 😉

 

[Indy 3,296]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Eww, you have genuine experience and evidence to support your viewpoint. We don't like that round these parts 😉

 

Do we or could it just hot air to back his point? 🤔😉 nobody knows!

The reality is it was pointed out that the season pre and post Smith they were pushing higher than his time there, so I can’t see how it’s being argued. Smith got Villa up by having the best championship squad by a country mile in Villa that season, then only kept them up due to a massive error by the officials last game of the season!

Still he is here and hopefully he can sort out his best 11 and get them playing a style and system to get the results needed to gain promotion.

[Branston Pickle 3,651]

34 minutes ago, Indy said:

Do we or could it just hot air to back his point? 🤔😉 nobody knows!

The reality is it was pointed out that the season pre and post Smith they were pushing higher than his time there, so I can’t see how it’s being argued. Smith got Villa up by having the best championship squad by a country mile in Villa that season, then only kept them up due to a massive error by the officials last game of the season!

Still he is here and hopefully he can sort out his best 11 and get them playing a style and system to get the results needed to gain promotion.

Just Wow. Do you think I’d make up a back history just for today?!  Jeez, that’d be quite pathetic, even for some of the more idiotic posters on here.

 I often used to post about decent players they had when they were in a lower league than us - I recall commenting among others on Jake Bidwell (he left for the dark side that is QPR) and also when they had Pritchard and Forshaw, both of whom looked good.

Pretty sure Brentford clinched promotion v PNE with Rudd playing in goal (I was there, a Good Friday, I then drove up to see us lose to Liverpool the following day) and then surprised everyone,  themselves included, getting to the playoffs. That Smith didn’t manage to repeat it is hardly a sleight on him, he didn’t have the surprise factor.

Massive error in your post, btw: the goal line error for Villa was with 10 games to go, not the last game of the season. Do you really think things would have panned out precisely the same had the goal been given?  Of course not.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

13 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Wow - you think I’d make up a back history just for today?!  Jeez, that’s quite pathetic.

 I often used to post about decent players they had when they were in a lower league than us - I recall commenting among others on Jake Bidwell (he left for the dark side that is QPR) and also when they had Pritchard and Forshaw, both of whom looked good.

Brentford were promoted (v PNE with Rudd in goal - I was there) and then surprised everyone,  themselves included, getting to the playoffs. That Smith didn’t manage to repeat it is hardly a sleight on him, he didn’t have the surprise factor.

Massive error in your post, btw: the goal line error for Villa was with 10 games to go, not the last game of the season. Do you really think things would have panned out precisely the same had the goal been given?  Of course not.

So to summarise, the manager before Smith got them to the play-offs the manger after got them to the play-offs and promotion yet the man in-between those 2 didn't! got you!

You are Dean Smith and I claim my £5! 

[Branston Pickle 3,651]

11 minutes ago, wheres my rebate gone? said:

So to summarise, the manager before Smith got them to the play-offs the manger after got them to the play-offs and promotion yet the man in-between those 2 didn't! got you!

You are Dean Smith and I claim my £5! 

So, to summarise, you are completely missing my point. Well done, you must be very proud.

Has it not occurred to you that, when Villa were looking for a new manager, they sought one that they considered decent and who might get them promoted?  They went for Smith.  What were they thinking, given his so-called poor record?  Or, maybe, perhaps, they just knew far more about football than you?  

Edited July 26, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

20 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

So, to summarise, you are completely missing my point. Well done, you must be very proud.

That's all you ever put, people are missing the point.

Do explain, couldn't care less if you are closet brentford fan, the facts are he had 3 seasons after taking over a playoff team ( also bringing in 18 players one preseason) to match or dare I say improve, he didn't, the next manager did, its quite simple.

To comment on your edit, first of all, you appear to be quite an angry individual!

Secondly, I believe villa needed to make a steady appointment (in the fans eyes!!) at the time with Smith being a villa man, had they have gone for his assistant they probably wouldn't of had to spend quite so much!!

Edited July 26, 2022 by wheres my rebate gone?

[canarybubbles 1,915]

9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

So, to summarise, you are completely missing my point. Well done, you must be very proud.

Has it not occurred to you that, when Villa were looking for a new manager, they sought one that they considered decent and who might get them promoted?  They went for Smith.  What were they thinking, given his so-called poor record?  Or, maybe, perhaps, they just knew far more about football than you?  

We've flogged this argument to death. There are a few of us on here - you, Hertford, Hogesar - who are strongly pro-Smith and a few of us like me who are anti-Smith. The vast majority seem to be 'give him a chance and see what he can do'. And since he's going to be given that chance, the best thing is just to wait and see. Nothing we do or say will change things. 

[Indy 3,296]

59 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Just Wow. Do you think I’d make up a back history just for today?!  Jeez, that’d be quite pathetic, even for some of the more idiotic posters on here.

 I often used to post about decent players they had when they were in a lower league than us - I recall commenting among others on Jake Bidwell (he left for the dark side that is QPR) and also when they had Pritchard and Forshaw, both of whom looked good.

Pretty sure Brentford clinched promotion v PNE with Rudd playing in goal (I was there, a Good Friday, I then drove up to see us lose to Liverpool the following day) and then surprised everyone,  themselves included, getting to the playoffs. That Smith didn’t manage to repeat it is hardly a sleight on him, he didn’t have the surprise factor.

Massive error in your post, btw: the goal line error for Villa was with 10 games to go, not the last game of the season. Do you really think things would have panned out precisely the same had the goal been given?  Of course not.

Indeed it was but still cost Bournemouth relegation and Sheffield a European place! 

As for you’re constant support of Smith’s time at Brentford and your back history (who knows) you have no more any idea of his remit there by the owners, every coach or manager is there to do the best they can for the employer and if they judge him to be falling short then that’s where it counts. The fans just form opinions! Yours is no more accurate then others on here. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Indy

[Branston Pickle 3,651]

2 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

We've flogged this argument to death. There are a few of us on here - you, Hertford, Hogesar - who are strongly pro-Smith and a few of us like me who are anti-Smith. The vast majority seem to be 'give him a chance and see what he can do'. And since he's going to be given that chance, the best thing is just to wait and see. Nothing we do or say will change things. 

I have made it abundantly clear I am not strongly pro Smith!!  I only say that he should be given a decent chance.  That is all.  Nothing more.  Just because I am not completely opposed to something doesn’t mean that I am completely for it.

 

[canarydan23 4,060]

38 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

So, to summarise, you are completely missing my point. Well done, you must be very proud.

Has it not occurred to you that, when Villa were looking for a new manager, they sought one that they considered decent and who might get them promoted?  They went for Smith.  What were they thinking, given his so-called poor record?  Or, maybe, perhaps, they just knew far more about football than you?  

Do you not think there was a little more to it than that? Had Dean Smith not be a childhood Villa fan and a local, I don't think he'd ever have gotten that job. The decision-makers at Villa certainly knew what they were doing in that they were aware their squad was good enough to get out of the league, it was really good enough for top 2, so they didn't need a world-class coach to eke out performances that would enable them to beat superior teams, just one who could get it firing. The club was in an awful place with a major disconnect with the fans, who had grown to detest Bruce (despite him actually finishing a place higher than they would end up with Smith), and the appointment of a Villa fan almost instantly remedied that.

Once promoted, they got shot of him at the first feasible opportunity.

[Branston Pickle 3,651]

10 minutes ago, Indy said:

Indeed it was but still cost Bournemouth relegation and Sheffield a European place! 

As for you’re constant support of Smith’s time at Brentford and your back history (who knows) you have no more any idea of his remit there by the owners, every coach or manager is there to do the best they can for the employer and if they judge him to be falling short then that’s where it counts. The fans just form opinions! Yours is no more accurate then others on here. 

Yes, you’re right - I’ve made up my entire life to try to make a point. Just how screwed up are you?

Just to add, once more, as it doesn’t seem to be clear enough: I merely think Smith should be given a chance.  I’m not wedded to him being our manager any more than anyone else. If we’re doing crap, say, by end of October, he should be binned.

The thing here is that people are mistaking not being opposed to something meaning that they muse be completely for it.  There is a middle ground.

[Indy 3,296]

13 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I have made it abundantly clear I am not strongly pro Smith!!  I only say that he should be given a decent chance.  That is all.  Nothing more.  Just because I am not completely opposed to something doesn’t mean that I am completely for it.

 

Again he will be given time, he has been given time, as far as I remember Webber stated that he saw Smith as the best option to keep us up! That didn’t happen, so was his remit here to keep us up? If it was he failed dismally! 

This season we as fans think it’s promotion, but Webber or the club haven’t stated that’s our goal, so the pressure on Smith might only come from the fans. As you rightly say we have very different views, mine is well stated, he’s a nice guy who anyone would want to do well, but from what I’ve seen he’s not improved anything much and most of us struggle to see what Norwich is on field! Formation, line up, style I have no idea and I’ve watched as many pre season games as I could on the laptop.

Don’t mean to be disrespectful regarding your back history and I fully appreciate that you might well follow Brentford, hell I’ve seen more Oxford games live than Norwich in the last five years.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Indy

[canarybubbles 1,915]

20 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I have made it abundantly clear I am not strongly pro Smith!!  I only say that he should be given a decent chance.  That is all.  Nothing more.  Just because I am not completely opposed to something doesn’t mean that I am completely for it.

 

I'm honestly sorry if I've misrepresented you. It's just that when I have criticised Smith and questioned his past record as a manager, you and the other two posters I mentioned always seemed to turn up to support him, so I assumed you felt strongly about it.

My main point was that there really is very little genuine enthusiasm for Smith on this board (or, to be fair, much genuine dislike either). Almost everyone is holding their fire, although different people have different ideas of what would constitute 'a decent chance').

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

48 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

We've flogged this argument to death. There are a few of us on here - you, Hertford, Hogesar - who are strongly pro-Smith and a few of us like me who are anti-Smith. The vast majority seem to be 'give him a chance and see what he can do'. And since he's going to be given that chance, the best thing is just to wait and see. Nothing we do or say will change things. 

The bit in bold is the only sensible position right now, both you and the people you are arguing with are the irrational ones. So essentially in the same camp for all us rational pragmatic types 😉

[hogesar 9,654]

51 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

We've flogged this argument to death. There are a few of us on here - you, Hertford, Hogesar - who are strongly pro-Smith and a few of us like me who are anti-Smith. The vast majority seem to be 'give him a chance and see what he can do'. And since he's going to be given that chance, the best thing is just to wait and see. Nothing we do or say will change things. 

Eh, I'm not even pro-smith.

All I've said is he should be given a chance, and refuted your ridiculous claims about Smith being a hoof-ball merchant manager - which you've pretty much ended up retracting yourself.