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The loan agreement for Hayden was made on an obligation to buy if certain performance criteria were made. In other words, if he got fit, we had the guaranteed purchase of a proven Premier League player for next season in a key role we need to fill. 

The good sides of the gamble were it was a price fixed fairly low for purchase and a million quid on wages over a year against the prospect of getting a proven Premier League player in a key role for next year. Even with the setback, it's possible it may yet work out, and the worst case scenario is we've lost a million quid and some of our physios time for trying, with plenty of time to look for more options before next season. 

His acquisition was always with an eye on returning to the Premier League, not playing an immediate urgent role in this season. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The loan agreement for Hayden was made on an obligation to buy if certain performance criteria were made. In other words, if he got fit, we had the guaranteed purchase of a proven Premier League player for next season in a key role we need to fill. 

The good sides of the gamble were it was a price fixed fairly low for purchase and a million quid on wages over a year against the prospect of getting a proven Premier League player in a key role for next year. Even with the setback, it's possible it may yet work out, and the worst case scenario is we've lost a million quid and some of our physios time for trying, with plenty of time to look for more options before next season. 

Yes bud, all hail Norwich city. What a fantastic signing. We will not get promoted without a decent defensive midfielder.

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Just now, Captain Holt said:

Only Norwich could recruit someone clearly injured to fill THE key position required this season. Christ almighty.

Was it really required this season? We're in an automatic promotion slot at the moment without him. 

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We have not really sorted recruited logically for the CDM position for a while, seems like Sorensen is not as good as the team hoped, and Hayden is struggling to be fit.  Seems incredible that when we trued to move to play 4 3 3, the player at the centre of those three needs to be more rounded than the player who plays cdm as one of two in a 4 2 3 1 formation.  Hayden was probably a bit of gamble on the player we really needed but could not afford.

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21 minutes ago, OTBC06 said:

Agree, Send him back, demand a refund. Get someone fit in January.

Return to Sender

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30 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Sorry but i've lost patience with this now. This is a huge error by someone at the club. He wasn't even fit enough to train when he arrived with us in June/July. He was clearly injured. How doid he pass a fitness test and why are we relying on this player to fill what was the "key" role we needed to recruit for this summer. Its not good enough. 

I'll wager that the club took a punt on him and got in early, knowing full well that he was carrying an injury, to beat other clubs to his signature.  It looks so far to have been a poor gamble

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13 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Was it really required this season? We're in an automatic promotion slot at the moment without him. 

Let's revisit end of October. The lack of a solid dm has really shown up in the last couple of games (even if we got the win v Brizzle). 

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21 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Maybe we rated Gibbs as the 'someone else' ?

I don't know that to be the case, obviously. Just speculating

Exactly, if Gibbs and Sorenson were fit and filling the hole nobody would be that bothered. It's incredibly frustrating though as I think Hayden would be fantastic if he was fit and playing.

At least its allowing a few people to let off some steam I guess.

15 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Was it really required this season? We're in an automatic promotion slot at the moment without him. 

Don't use facts! Dear me. 

 

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22 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The loan agreement for Hayden was made on an obligation to buy if certain performance criteria were made. In other words, if he got fit, we had the guaranteed purchase of a proven Premier League player for next season in a key role we need to fill. 

The good sides of the gamble were it was a price fixed fairly low for purchase and a million quid on wages over a year against the prospect of getting a proven Premier League player in a key role for next year. Even with the setback, it's possible it may yet work out, and the worst case scenario is we've lost a million quid and some of our physios time for trying, with plenty of time to look for more options before next season. 

His acquisition was always with an eye on returning to the Premier League, not playing an immediate urgent role in this season. 

Do you not think we needed him this season? And really, we need two players for each position. It does smack of he was the only one available so lets get him before anyone else. And it could end up costing us a million for absolutely nothing.

It has proved to be a key position for us and while you are right we are in the automatics without a DM, surely you, normally an analytical poster, must accept we need one urgently so that we can keep in the top two.

Hopefully he will get fit for us and getting a boost after the WC would be gratefully received. But that depends on the next eleven fixtures of course and I would wager they look tougher than the first eleven.

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10 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Exactly, if Gibbs and Sorenson were fit and filling the hole nobody would be that bothered. It's incredibly frustrating though as I think Hayden would be fantastic if he was fit and playing.

At least its allowing a few people to let off some steam I guess.

Don't use facts! Dear me. 

 

Yes, if players weren't injured we wouldn't be bothered about injuries. Insight.

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Just now, keelansgrandad said:

Do you not think we needed him this season? And really, we need two players for each position. It does smack of he was the only one available so lets get him before anyone else. And it could end up costing us a million for absolutely nothing.

It has proved to be a key position for us and while you are right we are in the automatics without a DM, surely you, normally an analytical poster, must accept we need one urgently so that we can keep in the top two.

Hopefully he will get fit for us and getting a boost after the WC would be gratefully received. But that depends on the next eleven fixtures of course and I would wager they look tougher than the first eleven.

As @Gordon Bennett pointed out, Gibbs and Sorensen are there for that role and both injured; it's fair to say you'd want to start with more than two fit players for a role, but arguably we're at the worst possible scenario with both of those crock and Hayden's recovery not going as well as might have been hoped. At least it looks like there's a reasonable chance of Gibbs being back for selection at the weekend. 

Overall, given that it's clear that Hayden's purchase was a calculated gamble/unique fixer upper opportunity with an eye on a return to the Premier League, I think it needs to be considered that it always was a gamble when you look at the fact it doesn't seem to be panning out, and the losses from the gamble aren't so bad when you put them in perspective of what we might have got out of it if it had panned out. Even with that said, we don't know for sure that this setback means the whole endeavour is a write-off yet. 

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Just the type of  player we need in the longer run, so this is disappointing news.     Our performances have been missing a combative type since Gibbs picked up his injury, although the relative strength of the league means the points impact so far is negligble. 

I dont think it was a poor gamble,  but it is a currently a calculated gamble that isnt paying off.    He will remain with us until jan at the earliest so rather than write him off in Sept i suggest waiting until the new year to see if he has been able to play again or not.     I am not prepared to abandon him just  yet.

Edited by ZLF
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14 minutes ago, wesforprimeminister said:

D some fans genuinely think we are going to stay n the top 2 if we continue playing like we are? gordon bennett

Playing the way we are has us 19 points out of the last possible 21. 

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44 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Exactly, if Gibbs and Sorenson were fit and filling the hole nobody would be that bothered. It's incredibly frustrating though as I think Hayden would be fantastic if he was fit and playing.

At least its allowing a few people to let off some steam I guess.

Don't use facts! Dear me. 

 

Sorensen is not the answer to the DM slot

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1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Was it really required this season? We're in an automatic promotion slot at the moment without him. 

Yes as the last few games have clearly shown.

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24 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Playing the way we are has us 19 points out of the last possible 21. 

We are obviously missing that DM and it's September not May 2023.

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29 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Playing the way we are has us 19 points out of the last possible 21. 

Which demonstrates how bad the quality is in the Chumps this season

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To claim Hayden was loaned in on the basis that he wouldn't be required this season is pretty laughable really. Luckily Gibbs exceeded expectations for this point in time and Hayden has proved no great loss, but October is a huge month for us and will go a long way in whether we are likely to get automatic promotion or not.

At the end of the day he's Newcastle's asset so they stand to lose more than us. Hopefully the deal has been structured in a way that we can bin him off in January.

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1 minute ago, Don’t be Krul said:

Which demonstrates how bad the quality is in the Chumps this season

In engineering, there's a viewpoint that really good engineering is a construction that can just do the job it's intended to; any more is a waste of resources. 

 

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58 minutes ago, wesforprimeminister said:

D some fans genuinely think we are going to stay n the top 2 if we continue playing like we are? gordon bennett

Well, if everyone else plays like they are too then yes, because we're second in that 'testing environment'.

IF your suggestion is 23 other teams will improve performances and we won't, then that's an argument but not sure it's based on anything.

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We're probably not there yet but there will be a point in time where the performance criteria cannot possibly be hit to trigger the compulsory purchase. From then on Newcastle are risking further injury to him with no gain. The review back at Newcastle in the next couple of weeks will be important.

 

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