How many Away members? How much income?

[shefcanary 2,388]

43 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

So if a director isn't transparent then they are just a shareholder? Is that like if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there does it make a sound?

Nah, just makes them a close follower of the values of Boris! 🤣

[essex canary 491]

Px w0k

35 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

So if a director isn't transparent then they are just a shareholder? Is that like if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there does it make a sound?

A Championship Club in a more affluent part of the country proposes charging £20 casual admission price. Our average last season was £44. The Club's senior manager pay bill jumps up and down like a jack in the box mainly upwards probably largely due to the part timers come restaurant pals.

Delia states in one of her recent interviews that money is beyond her these days. That sounds accurate.

Perhaps Boris is looking for a consultant position?

[cornish sam 944]

16 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Px w0k

A Championship Club in a more affluent part of the country proposes charging £20 casual admission price. Our average last season was £44. The Club's senior manager pay bill jumps up and down like a jack in the box mainly upwards probably largely due to the part timers come restaurant pals.

Delia states in one of her recent interviews that money is beyond her these days. That sounds accurate.

Perhaps Boris is looking for a consultant position?

What has that to do with my question?

[Greavsy 2,412]

39 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

What has that to do with my question?

Suits his agenda. 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

 

A Championship Club in a more affluent part of the country proposes charging £20 casual admission price. Our average last season was £44.

Not quite right now is it essex ? Reading propose to charge away fans £20 and the same price for home casuals in a similar part of the ground i.e behind the goals. Casual prices along the touchlines will be higher.

[essex canary 491]

10 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Not quite right now is it essex ? Reading propose to charge away fans £20 and the same price for home casuals in a similar part of the ground i.e behind the goals. Casual prices along the touchlines will be higher.

Fair point Tilly though for many customers it will be the lowest available price that matters.

[A Load of Squit 5,130]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

 

A Championship Club in a more affluent part of the country proposes charging £20 casual admission price. Our average last season was £44.

Reading don't seem to average much more than 60% capacity for their home games, they need some serious marketing to get fans to attend.

We'll have to see if this new pricing gets the fans back into the ground.

 

[essex canary 491]

1 hour ago, Greavsy said:

Suits his agenda. 

The Agenda of opposing the supporter rip-offs encompassing home casual supporters, away supporters or shareholder season ticket holders.

Perhaps also for a more diverse range of season ticket prices (generally lower) and for casual and season ticket prices to be pegged to each other.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

3 minutes ago, essex canary said:

The Agenda of opposing the supporter rip-offs encompassing home casual supporters, away supporters or shareholder season ticket holders.

Perhaps also for a more diverse range of season ticket prices (generally lower) and for casual and season ticket prices to be pegged to each other.

What is the difference between a shareholder season ticket holder and a season ticket holder apart from the obvious ?

So you also want a more diverse range of season ticket prices which are lower, lower priced casual tickets and free home and away memberships. That means a revenue stream will be severely hit which won't help matters in generating money for the club.

Edited July 7, 2022 by TIL 1010

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

6 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Seems to be confusing a shareholder with Director. 

Delusions of grandeur? Certainly seems that way. 

 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

2 hours ago, essex canary said:

Fair point Tilly though for many customers it will be the lowest available price that matters.

Go to Aldi then.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

What is the difference between a shareholder season ticket holder and a season ticket holder apart from the obvious ?

So you also want a more diverse range of season ticket prices which are lower, lower priced casual tickets and free home and away memberships. That means a revenue stream will be severely hit which won't help matters in generating money for the club.

But it will allow him to gripe about it in a couple of years time, when as you say Tillo, the Club will have to explore other ways to generate dosh. .... If the current ones dry up. Did you know he is a shareholder btw?.

[cornish sam 944]

9 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

But it will allow him to gripe about it in a couple of years time, when as you say Tillo, the Club will have to explore other ways to generate dosh. .... If the current ones dry up. Did you know he is a shareholder btw?.

He's not just a shareholder, he owns 0.16%!!!!

[essex canary 491]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

What is the difference between a shareholder season ticket holder and a season ticket holder apart from the obvious ?

So you also want a more diverse range of season ticket prices which are lower, lower priced casual tickets and free home and away memberships. That means a revenue stream will be severely hit which won't help matters in generating money for the club.

Shareholders who aren't season ticket holders are still able to claim a free membership (whether restricted to Home only isn't clear). So in fairness season ticket holders should have such an entitlement which should be graduated upwards for more substantial shareholders again for reasons of fairness. No season ticket holders should be required to pay memberships beyond the scope of the old away season ticket. Memberships would still apply to others. 

I am sure a solution could be found including some allocated lower priced season tickets which would eat up less than half of the EXTRA  £1.6 million the Club spent on senior management costs in relegation season 2020 compared to the same in 2016.

[cornish sam 944]

1 minute ago, essex canary said:

Shareholders who aren't season ticket holders are still able to claim a free membership (whether restricted to Home only isn't clear). So in fairness season ticket holders should have such an entitlement which should be graduated upwards for more substantial shareholders again for reasons of fairness. No season ticket holders should be required to pay memberships beyond the scope of the old away season ticket. Memberships would still apply to others. 

I am sure a solution could be found including some allocated lower priced season tickets which would eat up less than half of the EXTRA  £1.6 million the Club spent on senior management costs in relegation season 2020 compared to the same in 2016.

Oh, so you think that a shareholders benefits should be inline with their %ge shareholding? Yet you have a problem with directors (who as discussed previously have a significant shareholding) getting benefits from being directors? By that token, of you get a season ticket for life with 0.16% ownership someone who owns say 13% should get a significant perk for that, say subsidised travel to and away tickets?

[TIL 1010 4,722]

5 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

Oh, so you think that a shareholders benefits should be inline with their %ge shareholding? Yet you have a problem with directors (who as discussed previously have a significant shareholding) getting benefits from being directors? By that token, of you get a season ticket for life with 0.16% ownership someone who owns say 13% should get a significant perk for that, say subsidised travel to and away tickets?

Will that subsidised away travel be for life ? 😜

[Greavsy 2,412]

12 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Will that subsidised away travel be for life ? 😜

Dont be daft Tilly - It must pass down to the children surely?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

It's extra funny that the poster that thinks  the club somehow owes him something beyond what was agreed, is in fact the gift that keeps on giving .

Is that irony in a nutshell?

[essex canary 491]

6 hours ago, cornish sam said:

Oh, so you think that a shareholders benefits should be inline with their %ge shareholding? Yet you have a problem with directors (who as discussed previously have a significant shareholding) getting benefits from being directors? By that token, of you get a season ticket for life with 0.16% ownership someone who owns say 13% should get a significant perk for that, say subsidised travel to and away tickets?

In percentage terms someone with 4 shares claiming a free membership gets 5 times the return of my holding of 1,000. 

If the Directors in turn were to take one fifth of that reward in percentage terms I think it is pretty clear it would fall well short of their travel and entertainment benefits.

[essex canary 491]

8 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

What is the difference between a shareholder season ticket holder and a season ticket holder apart from the obvious ?

So you also want a more diverse range of season ticket prices which are lower, lower priced casual tickets and free home and away memberships. That means a revenue stream will be severely hit which won't help matters in generating money for the club.

A reliable source has told me that the Clubs profit after costs for its membership schemes is only £50,000 per annum. If that is the case once the costs of maintaining the shareholder register are added, I think it is highly probable that the most complicated and extensive membership scheme in British football delivers an annual loss.

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 05/07/2022 at 11:24, essex canary said:

2. Top up salaries for players playing for other Clubs.

As much as we'd all prefer not to have to do this, and as much as its often down to poor recruitment decisions or overpaying specific players, in the real world its often going to happen, and if Birmingham are paying even £4k a week of Placheta's wages... that's still £200k off the wage bill for a player who frankly offers nothing.

In the case of younger players it does on occasion result in their transfer value increasing or turning them into players good enough for our first team. Look at the Cantwell and Godfrey loans (and Jacob Murphy before those).

There is a counter argument that the fans of these clubs don't want to be paying to blood other clubs youngsters at the expense of their own players development only for the to return to their parent clubs. Godfrey doing a full-season at Shrewsbury only to return to his parent club ready for first team football is exactly the same as Oliver Skipp doing a full season at Norwich City only to return to Spurs ready to play for their first team.

I should imagine there have been occasions where we've benefited from such an arrangement ourselves as the lower placed club, where we've borrowed a player and had their parent clubs have subsidise their wages to  get their youngsters some football (Bertrand and Gibbs perhaps, possibly even Crouch?)

Assuming that Shrewsbury didn't pay Godfrey's full wages, and I'd say that is a fair assumption, I think it proved a shrewd bit of business for us.

You could at least distinguish between development loans and senior player loans I feel, there is a high degree of risk involved in a lower league club taking an inexperienced player on loan, there is always a high level of uncertainty about whether that player is ready or not, just like we saw with Harry Kane... who definitely wasn't ready for us at that time.

Edited July 7, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[cornish sam 944]

12 minutes ago, essex canary said:

In percentage terms someone with 4 shares claiming a free membership gets 5 times the return of my holding of 1,000. 

If the Directors in turn were to take one fifth of that reward in percentage terms I think it is pretty clear it would fall well short of their travel and entertainment benefits.

Are you factoring in the fact that a lot of those people who own a few shares are likely to also be season ticket holders and as such would get membership through that, thereby reducing their benefit to nothing, which is a damned sight less than a fifth? Or are you arguing that someone who 'only' owns 4 shares doesn't deserve to have a membership of 'all' you get is a season ticket for life?

I don't know what the shareholding of the directors are or whether or not they own different types of shares (e.g. preference), but, this is all sounding pretty bitter and whiney. You bought your shares knowing what the benefits were, presumably you bought the shares primarily to support the club you claim to love (or at least did) and anything else was a bonus. Stop acting as though the club owe you anything extra. From previous comments I presume you are late middle age to early retirement, this stress and bitterness is not good for you, accept it, the situation isn't going to change. If you hate the way they are treating you divest, find someone to buy your shares for a fair price (or even for well over the odds, that's your prerogative) and if you still want to go, buy the season ticket, your seat will be available still or go as a casual, the price is much more reasonable now. Just please stop trying to beat the club with any stick you can and when being challenged on it pivot away and build another imagined slight or injury to try and justify your feelings of self pity and victimhood.

[Mr Angry 1,545]

5 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

It's extra funny that the poster that thinks  the club somehow owes him something beyond what was agreed, is in fact the gift that keeps on giving .

Is that irony in a nutshell?

I don't think he's giving that much to be honest-apart from a pain in the ar$e.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

38 minutes ago, essex canary said:

In percentage terms someone with 4 shares claiming a free membership gets 5 times the return of my holding of 1,000. 

If the Directors in turn were to take one fifth of that reward in percentage terms I think it is pretty clear it would fall well short of their travel and entertainment benefits.

One question I have for you essex canary is this...

If you get the chance to 'exit', e.g. in the event of a takeover, do you get to retain your season ticket for life, or is it a season ticket for as long as you hold those shares?

Because if its the former, it very much looks like it could still potentially be a great deal?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

8 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

One question I have for you essex canary is this...

If you get the chance to 'exit', e.g. in the event of a takeover, do you get to retain your season ticket for life, or is it a season ticket for as long as you hold those shares?

Because if its the former, it very much looks like it could still potentially be a great deal?

Now there's a  thing TvB , conundrum par exellance! What would he do? 

The meditation is working 🧘😇

[essex canary 491]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

One question I have for you essex canary is this...

If you get the chance to 'exit', e.g. in the event of a takeover, do you get to retain your season ticket for life, or is it a season ticket for as long as you hold those shares?

Because if its the former, it very much looks like it could still potentially be a great deal?

My general belief on purchasing was that 4 shares for a free membership is a fair deal and that 1,000 shares for a seat is similar.

I would not have anticipated that inheritance would be permitted on the former and not on the latter. In relative terms the holder of 1,000 shares is doing the Club a big favour as they would have 250 times the administration if they had sold 1,000 shares in individual lots of 4.

I would also reasonably have interpreted that if I actively sold even 1 share I would loose the entitlement so clearly it follows that I would resume paying for my seat on the same basis as any other supporter if I no longer hold those shares. Maybe it will be a great deal for me. It is just that I believe the nature of the deal received by a deceased friends family should be exactly the same as mine. A true Community Club spirit, which we haven't got, would achieve that.

 

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

27 minutes ago, essex canary said:

My general belief on purchasing was that 4 shares for a free membership is a fair deal and that 1,000 shares for a seat is similar.

I would not have anticipated that inheritance would be permitted on the former and not on the latter. In relative terms the holder of 1,000 shares is doing the Club a big favour as they would have 250 times the administration if they had sold 1,000 shares in individual lots of 4.

I would also reasonably have interpreted that if I actively sold even 1 share I would loose the entitlement so clearly it follows that I would resume paying for my seat on the same basis as any other supporter if I no longer hold those shares. Maybe it will be a great deal for me. It is just that I believe the nature of the deal received by a deceased friends family should be exactly the same as mine. A true Community Club spirit, which we haven't got, would achieve that.

So you think 1000 shares should mean a lifetime season ticket that can be passed down through the generations, to one of your grandchildren, one of your great grandchildren, and one of your great grandchildren?

Sorry but that's just wholly unrealistic.

Surely anybody who purchased these shares did so mostly out of altruism and love for the club? 

Your child inherits shares that may one day be worthless, or may one day be subject to a healthy offer to purchase, it remains an asset. Surely you haven't invested with the belief that you'd one day make a profit? Football completely the wrong industry if you are looking to do that, that's why the AIM isn't full of Championship football clubs. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

6 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Surely anybody who purchased these shares did so mostly out of altruism and love for the club

I'm not sure that this applies in Ethics case.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

 I’m not sure that I agree with Essex on the “for life” point means the benefit can be passed on and think it might benefit his heart rate to perhaps take a break from his campaign. 

However I do agree with the gist of his fundamental point on this thread. We sell ourselves as a “community” club run for the fans. But there is an inconsistency between that ethos, the way we try and screw every single penny out of our fans and the way that some senior staff at the club are being paid huge sums of money.

I would throw into the mix the fact that I suspect (although can’t prove) that the bill for the owners/directors matchday benefits probably comes to something close to the amount raised by the away membership scheme over the course of a season and I would be amazed if they are paying for it themselves.

we have some of the highest season ticket prices in the country. We have much higher casual ticket prices than many clubs. We rinse our fans for an extra £25 a season on top of their season tickets just for the right to have priority access to buy away tickets. We have been taking money for memberships off shareholders for several years now who were actually entitled to free membership but not publicising that fact. These things raise minimal amounts in comparison with, for example, the salaries and bonuses taken home by some senior staff, even in seasons where they have performed badly.

if people can’t see a potential paradox there then they are wilfully looking the other way. One might call it champagne socialism. 

[Commonsense 618]

19 hours ago, essex canary said:

Px w0k

A Championship Club in a more affluent part of the country proposes charging £20 casual admission price. Our average last season was £44. The Club's senior manager pay bill jumps up and down like a jack in the box mainly upwards probably largely due to the part timers come restaurant pals.

Delia states in one of her recent interviews that money is beyond her these days. That sounds accurate.

Perhaps Boris is looking for a consultant position?

Why not look at the 2 clubs accounts? I also thought that we were in the Premier League last season, hence the higher prices. 
I like your suggestion of Boris- a totally self obsessed individual who believed that constantly reiterating his own point, whether it was true or not ,was the way forward. Does that remind you of anybody?