Michael Bailey's latest article on the Athletic

[TheGunnShow 5,930]

8 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Comparing Mario Vrancic - a no. 10 - to Kenny McLean - a no. 8 - is like comparing apples and oranges. 

Would have said Vrancic is more a deep-lying playmaker myself. Would have had Stiepi over Vrancic at number 10 any day. Vrancic was more of a Leitner replacement.

McLean can pick passes, but he's not likely to cut defences apart with them. Vrancic had that in his locker - that one from deep for Pukki against Spurs which was offside by a nose hair or something was a prime example of what Vrancic could do from deep.

Edited July 1, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[canarydan23 4,060]

9 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

We can't bomb out a perfectly good player for the job we immediately face because he hasn't done it or may not do it in the league we may never reach again.

If a player becomes available who has a proven EPL pedigree, he's likely going to be bought by a team who are at that level. Case in point is Dale Stephens of Burnley who looks set to move to Southampton, despite not having the best of seasons last year.

If that's how the club want to play it, then I guess the lack of ambition accusers have a point.

We should be planning to become an established EPL team and every action we take should funnel into that aspiration.

And Hayden has proven EPL pedigree. Huckerby had EPL pedigree when we signed him. Plenty of Championship clubs are able to sign players with EPL pedigree.

And I also said players who had the potential to play but haven't yet. For example, someone like Gus Hamer at Coventry. If he was available and affordable, I'd have him in a heartbeat and he'd be straight in the starting lineup above McLean and is likely to do a better job there than him and a MUCH better job than McLean if he played in the Prem. But we may have missed the boat on him last summer and he'll be somewhere higher than us come the end of August.

[Icecream Snow 761]

Interesting points in the comments that the article makes no mention of PLM.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

2 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

How much did the pink un pay you for this? 😉

 

Shame Smith is not thinking about two up top given how great Idah and Pukki have looked when paired together..

 

And God, McLean first choice starter yet again. God help us all. Least he can point!

On the contrary that is the most heartening takeaway from that list.

[shefcanary 2,383]

Just picking up on a couple of things.  

Whilst acknowledging that Kenny puts in a shift, I really hope that with Hayden screening this year, Kenny will slow down and start thinking about his own position and those of his colleagues thus proving that St Mirren guy was right and that he can spray the passes around. Otherwise, if he just continues to run around like a headless chicken he won't deserve to remain in the side.

Bailey says we are not looking at League 1 for the other midfielder, but does that mean Chumps or EPL level.  Bailey also hints that the player they are in discussion with will excite us fans! I am struggling to think who the hell it could be that is within our financial envelope. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

28 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

He's not a no. 10 though. And McLean played a few games at no. 10 in both of those seasons for us. I could pick other comparisons which don't look favourably as well. He's decent enough at this level, no arguments from me on that one, but just because he was so blatantly cr@p last year and the other PL season, that doesn't translate to him being top at this level. He's dreadful at PL level and half decent at this level.

He's played as a no. 10. 

https://www.footballcritic.com/mario-vrancic/player-positions/12553

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

Based on a rumour I heard towards the end of last season it wouldn't surprise me if Sorensen left. His career is stalling big time here and he'll be down the pecking order one again.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,037]

11 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

He's played as a no. 10. 

https://www.footballcritic.com/mario-vrancic/player-positions/12553

I know, as has Kenny. It doesn't mean either of them are a no. 10.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

41 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

If that's how the club want to play it, then I guess the lack of ambition accusers have a point.

We should be planning to become an established EPL team and every action we take should funnel into that aspiration.

And Hayden has proven EPL pedigree. Huckerby had EPL pedigree when we signed him. Plenty of Championship clubs are able to sign players with EPL pedigree.

And I also said players who had the potential to play but haven't yet. For example, someone like Gus Hamer at Coventry. If he was available and affordable, I'd have him in a heartbeat and he'd be straight in the starting lineup above McLean and is likely to do a better job there than him and a MUCH better job than McLean if he played in the Prem. But we may have missed the boat on him last summer and he'll be somewhere higher than us come the end of August.

You make some good points. I'd have Gus Hamer in my side too, probably above McLean.

I think where we differ, though, is that I would happily sign a player who has shown his ability at this level who has maybe shown that the next step up is a step too far. I'll even give an example. 

Helder Costa at Leeds is someone I've seen us linked with by randoms on twitter over the last couple of days. He was superb in that Wolves side that coasted to the Championship, but hasn't really hit the heights expected for Leeds in the Premier League or in La Liga on loan (I want to say Valencia, but might be wrong).

Would you sign him? Because I would. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Terminally Yellow

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

3 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

I know, as has Kenny. It doesn't mean either of them are a no. 10.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Mario played predominantly as a no 10 last season for the stats you've quoted.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,247]

3 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

You make some good points. I'd have Gus Hamer in my side too, probably above McLean.

I think where we differ, though, is that I would happily sign a player who has shown his ability at this level. I'll even give an example. 

Helder Costa at Leeds is someone I've seen us linked with by randoms on twitter over the last couple of days. He was superb in that Wolves side that coasted to the Championship, but hasn't really hit the heights expected for Leeds in the Premier League or in La Liga on loan (I want to say Valencia, but might be wrong).

Would you sign him? Because I would. 

Absolutely would

[Nuff Said 5,088]

18 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Just picking up on a couple of things.  

Whilst acknowledging that Kenny puts in a shift, I really hope that with Hayden screening this year, Kenny will slow down and start thinking about his own position and those of his colleagues thus proving that St Mirren guy was right and that he can spray the passes around. Otherwise, if he just continues to run around like a headless chicken he won't deserve to remain in the side.

Bailey says we are not looking at League 1 for the other midfielder, but does that mean Chumps or EPL level.  Bailey also hints that the player they are in discussion with will excite us fans! I am struggling to think who the hell it could be that is within our financial envelope. 

The time is finally here! Fabio Quagliarella come on down!

[canarydan23 4,060]

2 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

You make some good points. I'd have Gus Hamer in my side too, probably above McLean.

I think where we differ, though, is that I would happily sign a player who has shown his ability at this level. I'll even give an example. 

Helder Costa at Leeds is someone I've seen us linked with by randoms on twitter over the last couple of days. He was superb in that Wolves side that coasted to the Championship, but hasn't really hit the heights expected for Leeds in the Premier League or in La Liga on loan (I want to say Valencia, but might be wrong).

Would you sign him? Because I would. 

I'd sign him in a heartbeat. I think he fits into the category of potentially being useful in the Premier League. Yes, he certainly didn't star, but he played a good number of matches in a Wolves side that finished 7th and a Leeds side that finished 9th. He certainly represents an improvement on the wingers we tried to survive with in the Premier League last season.

So I'd have him 100% for this season, but also think he's a signing with an eye on a possible promotion.

I think they're probably just internet rumours though, can't see it happening. But if I'm allowed to dream, we buy him and Hamer and sell Rashica and Aarons, but everyone else stayed, I'd be on cloud 9. And I reckon we'd have a squad that probably only needed two or three additions to be competitive in the EPL (though one of them might be a goalscorer depending on how Pukki ages).

The reality is we'll probably sign neither and lose Pukki, Hanley, Rashica and Aarons as well 😂

[sonyc 5,489]

5 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

The time is finally here! Fabio Quagliarella come on down!

On the subject of Bailey's comment I reckon Wee Alex up the road will mop up any attacking midfielders going. We all know how he loves having about 12 of them in his squad😄

[ron obvious 1,498]

39 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Interesting points in the comments that the article makes no mention of PLM.

Yes, I noticed that too. Given we're looking at multiple signings perhaps he's on his way out - we really need to offload players if we're signing new ones.

Bit of a shame for me, I think he was just starting to get to grips with the PL. Decent shot on him too. Rather inconsistent performer though.

[DraytonBoy 142]

6 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Helder Costa at Leeds is someone I've seen us linked with by randoms on twitter over the last couple of days. He was superb in that Wolves side that coasted to the Championship, but hasn't really hit the heights expected for Leeds in the Premier League or in La Liga on loan (I want to say Valencia, but might be wrong).

Would you sign him? Because I would. 

Please take him, he's perfect for the Championship but not good enough for the PL as we've found out, he's on £30K+ a week.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,247]

31 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Just picking up on a couple of things.  

Whilst acknowledging that Kenny puts in a shift, I really hope that with Hayden screening this year, Kenny will slow down and start thinking about his own position and those of his colleagues thus proving that St Mirren guy was right and that he can spray the passes around. Otherwise, if he just continues to run around like a headless chicken he won't deserve to remain in the side.

Bailey says we are not looking at League 1 for the other midfielder, but does that mean Chumps or EPL level.  Bailey also hints that the player they are in discussion with will excite us fans! I am struggling to think who the hell it could be that is within our financial envelope. 

Could it be!

 

 

 

 

 

 

WEE BILLY MAKES HIS TRIUMPHANT RETURN! 

[Nuff Said 5,088]

4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

On the subject of Bailey's comment I reckon Wee Alex up the road will mop up any attacking midfielders going. We all know how he loves having about 12 of them in his squad😄

Was in under him that we got Alex Pritchard to turn his car around on the way to Brighton and come to us instead? 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,247]

2 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Yes, I noticed that too. Given we're looking at multiple signings perhaps he's on his way out - we really need to offload players if we're signing new ones.

Bit of a shame for me, I think he was just starting to get to grips with the PL. Decent shot on him too. Rather inconsistent performer though.

I hope not, I actually think PLM would be a decent option in this league. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I'd sign him in a heartbeat. I think he fits into the category of potentially being useful in the Premier League. Yes, he certainly didn't star, but he played a good number of matches in a Wolves side that finished 7th and a Leeds side that finished 9th. He certainly represents an improvement on the wingers we tried to survive with in the Premier League last season.

So I'd have him 100% for this season, but also think he's a signing with an eye on a possible promotion.

I think they're probably just internet rumours though, can't see it happening. But if I'm allowed to dream, we buy him and Hamer and sell Rashica and Aarons, but everyone else stayed, I'd be on cloud 9. And I reckon we'd have a squad that probably only needed two or three additions to be competitive in the EPL (though one of them might be a goalscorer depending on how Pukki ages).

The reality is we'll probably sign neither and lose Pukki, Hanley, Rashica and Aarons as well 😂

I know that is playing to the miserabilist gallery, but according to Sam Seaman we are planning on Pukki being here next season and have told him and his agent that.

Whatever the rights and wrong of selling Buendia I suspect Webber and Smith know they would not be able to justify to the fans letting Pukki go, even if there was a deal on the table that made sense. Carrow Road would be awash in duvet covers...

[sonyc 5,489]

4 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Was in under him that we got Alex Pritchard to turn his car around on the way to Brighton and come to us instead? 

Indeed it was. If you recall he played a blinder when he controlled the match at our place (for Brentford). I reckon Alex saw in Pritchard a version of his younger self. And out came the chequebook!

Interesting of course now that they have both reunited (with former canary Patrick Roberts also playing for the Black Cats).

[Nuff Said 5,088]

3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Indeed it was. If you recall he played a blinder when he controlled the match at our place (for Brentford). I reckon Alex saw in Pritchard a version of his younger self. And out came the chequebook!

Interesting of course now that they have both reunited (with former canary Patrick Roberts also playing for the Black Cats).

I’d forgotten that he’s at Sunderland now. Looking forward to that game, will be an interesting one. If we weren’t on holiday, I’d be driving up for that one, I’ve not been to the Stadium of Light.

[rock bus 850]

As I've said before - Mclean really represents the issue with us as a club. He is a 'decent' championship player, jack of all trades and master of none (except maybe moaning and pointing!).

I'm not saying we should get rid or that he is a bad player BUT if at the end of next season he is still one of our first choice midfielders I will be very disappointed.

[canarybubbles 1,915]

46 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I know that is playing to the miserabilist gallery, but according to Sam Seaman we are planning on Pukki being here next season and have told him and his agent that.

Whatever the rights and wrong of selling Buendia I suspect Webber and Smith know they would not be able to justify to the fans letting Pukki go, even if there was a deal on the table that made sense. Carrow Road would be awash in duvet covers...

You may be making a mistake in assuming that Webber cares in the slightest what the fans think or want. He's out of here anyway as soon as he deigns to leave.

[yellowrider120 761]

22 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

On the contrary that is the most heartening takeaway from that list.

On the contrary, if this 'speculation' of a single, lone striker upfront in a 4-2-3-1 becomes reality then (once again) we will be flogging the old boy to death and wheeling him out for pretty much every minute of pretty much every game (like we did under Herr Farke).  Whatever happened to 'this season being make or break for the boy Idah'??

I have nothing against Pukki but this strategy of relying on him almost totally for our goals has been an obsession for the last four seasons during which we have given no-one else the opportunity to provide meaningful competition / rotation / succession planning. It will not end well if this continues under D Smith.

[Ulfotto 622]

I do wonder from those points if Norman might be in the frame as the other midfield player. And yes I know it’s contradictory as another point suggests athletic players which wasn’t his strong point. I would assume the asking price might have dropped and he might be interested in coming back if the wages are right. I would move on from him personally but all parties at the club need instant success next year

[Move Klose 303]

1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

You make some good points. I'd have Gus Hamer in my side too, probably above McLean.

I think where we differ, though, is that I would happily sign a player who has shown his ability at this level who has maybe shown that the next step up is a step too far. I'll even give an example. 

Helder Costa at Leeds is someone I've seen us linked with by randoms on twitter over the last couple of days. He was superb in that Wolves side that coasted to the Championship, but hasn't really hit the heights expected for Leeds in the Premier League or in La Liga on loan (I want to say Valencia, but might be wrong).

Would you sign him? Because I would. 

Was awfull at Leeds.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,247]

16 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

On the contrary, if this 'speculation' of a single, lone striker upfront in a 4-2-3-1 becomes reality then (once again) we will be flogging the old boy to death and wheeling him out for pretty much every minute of pretty much every game (like we did under Herr Farke).  Whatever happened to 'this season being make or break for the boy Idah'??

I have nothing against Pukki but this strategy of relying on him almost totally for our goals has been an obsession for the last four seasons during which we have given no-one else the opportunity to provide meaningful competition / rotation / succession planning. It will not end well if this continues under D Smith.

How do we know that the strategy isn't to play Idah up top with pukki as the number 10? 

We can then fizz crosses into Idah and our midfield can play pukki in behind from deep. Not saying I particularly like the idea but you just never know. 🤷

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

21 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

On the contrary, if this 'speculation' of a single, lone striker upfront in a 4-2-3-1 becomes reality then (once again) we will be flogging the old boy to death and wheeling him out for pretty much every minute of pretty much every game (like we did under Herr Farke).  Whatever happened to 'this season being make or break for the boy Idah'??

I have nothing against Pukki but this strategy of relying on him almost totally for our goals has been an obsession for the last four seasons during which we have given no-one else the opportunity to provide meaningful competition / rotation / succession planning. It will not end well if this continues under D Smith.

I am not saying we will play a lone striker for every minute of every match, and I certainly expect the plan is for wingers/midfielders/set pieces to provide a healthy number of goals.

But as it stands, based on performances so far, neither Hugill nor Idah is close to a top of the championship-level striker. I don't fancy a default system that involves playing someone sub-standard.

The point about 'make or break' comments about Idah is that pundits are making them precisely because they are not at all sure he will make it. They stem from a lack of confidence in him.

Edited July 1, 2022 by PurpleCanary

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

40 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

You may be making a mistake in assuming that Webber cares in the slightest what the fans think or want. He's out of here anyway as soon as he deigns to leave.

He may not care but Smith would and I doubt the directors would be happy with such a PR disaster.