The worst news if true...

[Monty13 2,231]

16 minutes ago, chicken said:

I sort of heard that slightly differently in that, the agent didn't say he thought Norwich were asking too much for Pukki, just that other clubs clearly valued him at less. 

So this to me sounded much more like a, "my man is worth the money, so if you want him, he'll come if you stump up the cash". 

I think folks have been fairly fair with the sort of valuation they think Norwich would take for him. £6-8m probably, realistically we still couldn't replace a repeat of previous seasons delivery at this level for that unless we unearthed another bargain as we did with Pukki in the first place.

Clubs will probably baulk at that, but then the clubs that are baulking at that are likely to be non top half prem sides, and more the likes of those teams just promoted or staving off a relegation battle, or abroad and possibly with less money to throw about.

Doesn't sound so great when you consider, as an agent, you have your star man and no one is willing to match a reasonable valuation for them does it?

No way Norwich would or should accept a fair valuation for Pukki, that’s the issue.

There’s nothing in that for Norwich because you can’t possibly replace him with it.

[lake district canary 4,531]

2 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Reading all the quotes I think everyone’s position is clear. Pukki wants to move.

Would he want to go to a PL team if a good offer was made? Yes, probaby, but the bigger question is - would he be happy if he stays?  I think the answer to that is also yes, so no real issue.

[Monty13 2,231]

27 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Would he want to go to a PL team if a good offer was made? Yes, probaby, but the bigger question is - would he be happy if he stays?  I think the answer to that is also yes, so no real issue.

It’s relative, I don’t think he’s bouncing off the walls about swapping away days and opposition from Manchester for places like Rotherham and Blackpool but he will honour his contract.

It’s clear he isn’t as happy to stay here as opposed to move, if he was we wouldn’t be hearing about it.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Monty13

[baldy09 156]

Never mind IF  Pukki is leaving has we got IDAH and Hugill . what more do you want😬 ,  Prem here we come .🤪. 

[hogesar 9,653]

Just now, baldy09 said:

Never mind IF  Pukki is leaving has we got IDAH and Hugill . what more do you want😬 ,  Prem here we come .🤪. 

But Pukki isn't leaving so we have Pukki, Idah, Sargent and Hugill.

[Capt. Pants 4,219]

1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

No way Norwich would or should accept a fair valuation for Pukki, that’s the issue.

There’s nothing in that for Norwich because you can’t possibly replace him with it.

Agreed. I'm not sure why some think we have to be fair on this. A little old Norwich thing?

I wouldn't sell him for £20m and as far as I'm aware no one has offered £8m for him.

I'm also thinking and hoping he doesn't have a release clause in his contract. If he did and the likes of Newcastle genuinely wanted him, then he would have gone by now.

[chicken 2,624]

54 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

It’s relative, I don’t think he’s bouncing off the walls about swapping away days and opposition from Manchester for places like Rotherham and Blackpool but he will honour his contract.

It’s clear he isn’t as happy to stay here as opposed to move, if he was we wouldn’t be hearing about it.

Assumption. Not exactly unfair assumption but we also have to remember all we have heard this from is an agent.

What does unfair valuation mean though? £10m? £8m?

Then take the perspective of both Pukki and the agent.

The agent knows this could be Pukki's last chance for a 2-3yr deal worth good money. He has one year on good money here and we are into the realms of players careers at 32/33 where an injury could drastically reduce the desire for the player, or a season where there is a drop in form.

It's betting. They agent will want as good a wages as possible to maximise the money they get, they also want as long a contract as possible to ensure the money is there for some time to come.

For both the player and the agent, long term future at this point is important, no matter how much is earned this season. One injury at the wrong time could see no suitors come the summer.

So I would expect nothing less from an agent answering to a Finish reporter at this point in Pukki's career. What Pukki wants could be very different to what the agent is saying he wants. We have been there before too. 

[chicken 2,624]

3 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Agreed. I'm not sure why some think we have to be fair on this. A little old Norwich thing?

I wouldn't sell him for £20m and as far as I'm aware no one has offered £8m for him.

I'm also thinking and hoping he doesn't have a release clause in his contract. If he did and the likes of Newcastle genuinely wanted him, then he would have gone by now.

That's the point though isn't it. Usually by now, if teams are genuinely interested bids have put in.

We have been told no bids have been put in as teams are put off by the price Norwich will demand. I suspect what that means is, the agent has spoken to the club, which he says he has according to the Finish reporter, the club have said we wouldn't let him leave for anything less than 'X' and the agent has shared that with "interested parties" none of whom were genuine enough to even try to haggle.

Ergo, there hasn't been any genuine interest.

I say that, because it would appear that those clubs were only interested if he was available for a decent deal. As I said before, doesn't fill you with confidence about what they thought of the player does it?

[Mullet 293]

On 28/06/2022 at 10:50, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I think any professional football player would want to always aim to play at the highest level they can so I do not begrudge him wanting that at all. We brought him in for nothing he’s fired us to the premier league twice and if we do sell for 7-8 million we’ve made that out of thin air. What ever he chooses he’s earned that right in my opinion. Will always be a club legend. 

Any professional footballer would want to play at the highest level,  except Harry Kane

[Mullet 293]

On 28/06/2022 at 10:35, king canary said:

 

Honestly can't see why the club would agree to let him go.

Don't Worry, Hugill is back lol

[komakino 272]

7 minutes ago, chicken said:

Assumption. Not exactly unfair assumption but we also have to remember all we have heard this from is an agent.

What does unfair valuation mean though? £10m? £8m?

Then take the perspective of both Pukki and the agent.

The agent knows this could be Pukki's last chance for a 2-3yr deal worth good money. He has one year on good money here and we are into the realms of players careers at 32/33 where an injury could drastically reduce the desire for the player, or a season where there is a drop in form.

It's betting. They agent will want as good a wages as possible to maximise the money they get, they also want as long a contract as possible to ensure the money is there for some time to come.

For both the player and the agent, long term future at this point is important, no matter how much is earned this season. One injury at the wrong time could see no suitors come the summer.

So I would expect nothing less from an agent answering to a Finish reporter at this point in Pukki's career. What Pukki wants could be very different to what the agent is saying he wants. We have been there before too. 

We should remember that the player instructs the agent, not the other way around. 

[PurpleCanary 5,556]

7 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

Absolutely zero chance of us turning down £20M for him even on deadline day!

No. If we have based our whole summer transfer strategy on a squad that has Pukki as the only proven goalscorer, which looks like the plan, then we are not going to sell him on deadline day, even for £20m, because we would have no time to spend the money on a replacement.

[komakino 272]

4 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

No. If we have based our whole summer transfer strategy on a squad that has Pukki as the only proven goalscorer, which looks like the plan, then we are not going to sell him on deadline day, even for £20m, because we would have no time to spend the money on a replacement.

Not only that, but Smith would surely walk if such a scenario were to happen. 

[Monty13 2,231]

11 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

No. If we have based our whole summer transfer strategy on a squad that has Pukki as the only proven goalscorer, which looks like the plan, then we are not going to sell him on deadline day, even for £20m, because we would have no time to spend the money on a replacement.

Not sure that’s true Purple, silly money for a key player is still silly money. You’d imagine we have some players in mind as replacements (we need one next summer anyway as things stand) so we may be able to do something even if it’s last minute.

[Monty13 2,231]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

Assumption. Not exactly unfair assumption but we also have to remember all we have heard this from is an agent.

What does unfair valuation mean though? £10m? £8m?

Then take the perspective of both Pukki and the agent.

The agent knows this could be Pukki's last chance for a 2-3yr deal worth good money. He has one year on good money here and we are into the realms of players careers at 32/33 where an injury could drastically reduce the desire for the player, or a season where there is a drop in form.

It's betting. They agent will want as good a wages as possible to maximise the money they get, they also want as long a contract as possible to ensure the money is there for some time to come.

For both the player and the agent, long term future at this point is important, no matter how much is earned this season. One injury at the wrong time could see no suitors come the summer.

So I would expect nothing less from an agent answering to a Finish reporter at this point in Pukki's career. What Pukki wants could be very different to what the agent is saying he wants. We have been there before too. 

1 hour ago, komakino said:

We should remember that the player instructs the agent, not the other way around. 

Komakino has nailed the point here, Agents don’t just go peddling completely their own agenda.

I think the Agent has been very fair in what he’s said Pukki’s position is. He also made it clear there has been no communication about a new contract (something I find odd personally).

Maybe Pukki would be happy to stay at Norwich for the rest of his career but wants a new deal and that’s what this is all about.

The one thing you can be sure is the player isn’t happy with the current situation as it stands as otherwise his agent wouldn’t be talking to the press.

[shefcanary 2,392]

19 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Agents don’t just go peddling completely their own agenda.

I disagree, strongly.  Agents are parasites, everything they do is for themselves.  Pukki is on a deserved long holiday.  There is no way he would want to be discussing his future when he is with his family for the first time in ages.  His agent is a ****, like all agents are! 

[1902 1,167]

4 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

I disagree, strongly.  Agents are parasites, everything they do is for themselves.  Pukki is on a deserved long holiday.  There is no way he would want to be discussing his future when he is with his family for the first time in ages.  His agent is a ****, like all agents are! 

Whether they are parasites or not is irrelevant. They survive because players perceive them to be useful in furthering their interests. Teemu Pukki doesn't strike me as an idiot, so why would he pay someone to make things more difficult between him and his employer. 

Personally I'm of the opinion that he wants to stay and wants a new deal, that's all. The best way to get that is by appearing like he's in a position to force a move or move at the end of his contract. If I were him, I'd possibly do the same right now.

Edited July 2, 2022 by 1902

[PurpleCanary 5,556]

43 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Not sure that’s true Purple, silly money for a key player is still silly money. You’d imagine we have some players in mind as replacements (we need one next summer anyway as things stand) so we may be able to do something even if it’s last minute.

Possible but highly unlikely. Silly money is only useful if you can spend it. Anyone really good has probably been snapped up or is happy to stay where they are.

Some years back we lined up a summer-window deal for a central defender at a Serie A Club. Probably Koulibaly at Napoli. Everything was agreed. Napoli, if it was them, were happy with the fee, and Koulibaly, if it was him, was happy with the personal terms. 

And very late on, either on deadline day or a day or so before, Napoli pulled the plug on the deal because they couldn't find a good enough replacement. And we were left with no top-quality central defender because it was too late for us as well. So both clubs found it impossible to do a last-minute deal. Even a top Serie A club, with their drawing power.

Timm Klose arrived in the winter window, but the damage had to an extent been done by then, and if it was Koulibaly we had targeted then Klose was probably not as good a player.

[Monty13 2,231]

11 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

 

11 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Possible but highly unlikely. Silly money is only useful if you can spend it. Anyone really good has probably been snapped up or is happy to stay where they are.

Some years back we lined up a summer-window deal for a central defender at a Serie A Club. Probably Koulibaly at Napoli. Everything was agreed. Napoli, if it was them, were happy with the fee, and Koulibaly, if it was him, was happy with the personal terms. 

And very late on, either on deadline day or a day or so before, Napoli pulled the plug on the deal because they couldn't find a good enough replacement. And we were left with no top-quality central defender because it was too late for us as well. So both clubs found it impossible to do a last-minute deal. Even a top Serie A club, with their drawing power.

Timm Klose arrived in the winter window, but the damage had to an extent been done by then, and if it was Koulibaly we had targeted then Klose was probably not as good a player.

It’s a fair point purple, I just wonder as a club if we are really in a position to turn down silly money even if it meant waiting till Jan and going with what we had left. Heart says we wouldn’t, head says maybe we would.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Monty13

[Monty13 2,231]

32 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

I disagree, strongly.  Agents are parasites, everything they do is for themselves.  Pukki is on a deserved long holiday.  There is no way he would want to be discussing his future when he is with his family for the first time in ages.  His agent is a ****, like all agents are! 

While I agree with your thoughts on agents, I just can’t see a scenario where Pukki has spoken to his agent and said he’s happy with the status quo, playing Champ football and seeing out his contract then his agent said what he said.

Like I said it’s not completely the agents agenda but if they’ve got licence expect them to be utter sh1ts.

[chicken 2,624]

1 hour ago, komakino said:

Not only that, but Smith would surely walk if such a scenario were to happen. 

I have to say, this is an incredibly, incredibly naïve comment.

Agents work on behalf of the player. In fact, lets just make this about agents in general.

Hollywood agents, for example, are constantly in contact with film studios lining up casting oppertunities, the actors themselves "may" have the final say, but I can guarantee you, they work away behind the scenes using their contacts. Those actors don't 'ask' them to do it, they expect them to do it. That's the role of an agent.

Look at Rio Ferdinand with both Godfrey and now Aarons. Folks on here have complained about him stating in live TV shows how he should be playing higher up etc.

If you think football agents wait for their clients to ask them for a move before drumming up potential interest it just doesn't reflect reality. Agents are more than capable of driving that themselves. They can tell their clients they should be playing somewhere better, for more money. It may even be "look, I know you are happy there, but we need to get the best deal possible for you if you do, we want them to offer you a two year extension to your contract, maybe with an option of a 3rd. So what I will do is ask around a bit, turn the heat up, remind them you are a wanted player, capable of playing at a higher level for more money."

That literally happens.

We know this happens. Not only do we know this happens, we know agents tell players not to go somewhere and that the players can and do stick their fingers up at them - see one Darren Huckerby. 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by chicken

[chicken 2,624]

11 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

While I agree with your thoughts on agents, I just can’t see a scenario where Pukki has spoken to his agent and said he’s happy with the status quo, playing Champ football and seeing out his contract then his agent said what he said.

Like I said it’s not completely the agents agenda but if they’ve got licence expect them to be utter sh1ts.

Like I said, assumption. We don't know whether this was a fishing exercise, a genuine reflection or a way of putting pressure on any contract negotiations etc.

You can pick one of the above, all fit, we'll probably never know which.

What we do know is that no club has lodged a bid. Which means we have no idea what sort of price the club is wanted. We do know that it means no club is genuine enough to test the waters with bids.

I take you back to last season when we left bids on the table for Ajer, Billings and Armstrong - two of whom signed for other clubs for more money and the third choosing to stay put.

[komakino 272]

14 minutes ago, chicken said:

I have to say, this is an incredibly, incredibly naïve comment.

Agents work on behalf of the player. In fact, lets just make this about agents in general.

Hollywood agents, for example, are constantly in contact with film studios lining up casting oppertunities, the actors themselves "may" have the final say, but I can guarantee you, they work away behind the scenes using their contacts. Those actors don't 'ask' them to do it, they expect them to do it. That's the role of an agent.

Look at Rio Ferdinand with both Godfrey and now Aarons. Folks on here have complained about him stating in live TV shows how he should be playing higher up etc.

If you think football agents wait for their clients to ask them for a move before drumming up potential interest it just doesn't reflect reality. Agents are more than capable of driving that themselves. They can tell their clients they should be playing somewhere better, for more money. It may even be "look, I know you are happy there, but we need to get the best deal possible for you if you do, we want them to offer you a two year extension to your contract, maybe with an option of a 3rd. So what I will do is ask around a bit, turn the heat up, remind them you are a wanted player, capable of playing at a higher level for more money."

That literally happens.

We know this happens. Not only do we know this happens, we know agents tell players not to go somewhere and that the players can and do stick their fingers up at them - see one Darren Huckerby. 

 

I posted earlier that the player instructs the agent, not the other way around.

I don’t believe Smith would accept Pukki being sold unless a decent replacement was being brought in. 

[Monty13 2,231]

24 minutes ago, chicken said:

Like I said, assumption. We don't know whether this was a fishing exercise, a genuine reflection or a way of putting pressure on any contract negotiations etc.

You can pick one of the above, all fit, we'll probably never know which.

What we do know is that no club has lodged a bid. Which means we have no idea what sort of price the club is wanted. We do know that it means no club is genuine enough to test the waters with bids.

I take you back to last season when we left bids on the table for Ajer, Billings and Armstrong - two of whom signed for other clubs for more money and the third choosing to stay put.

My point is any of which suggests he isn’t happy with the current situation.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

15 minutes ago, komakino said:

I posted earlier that the player instructs the agent, not the other way around.

I don’t believe Smith would accept Pukki being sold unless a decent replacement was being brought in. 

Off topic but has corky got hold of you yet for a bet you and he may have had? Check the ‘help’ thread. Apologies if you’ve already seen and acted on this 

[hogesar 9,653]

30 minutes ago, komakino said:

I posted earlier that the player instructs the agent, not the other way around.

I don’t believe Smith would accept Pukki being sold unless a decent replacement was being brought in. 

Considering your history of lying about Delia on here, maybe worth at least acknowledging the thread you've been posted in multiple times by myself, @wcorkcanary and @SwearyCanary.

[komakino 272]

16 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Considering your history of lying about Delia on here, maybe worth at least acknowledging the thread you've been posted in multiple times by myself, @wcorkcanary and @SwearyCanary.

Why do you have to acknowledge anybody? I’m simply stating my opinion. 

[hogesar 9,653]

47 minutes ago, komakino said:

Why do you have to acknowledge anybody? I’m simply stating my opinion. 

I think you've missed the point. Alongside your lying about Delia, you made a bet with proceeds to go to the CSF with @wcorkcanary. You've ignored his thread, when you'll have received multiple notifications about it.

For someone who's already a proven liar on here, it's not the greatest look.

[hertfordyellow 460]

Do we know the age of his children? I say this because one of the selling points for staying at Norwich is it is a great place for schools and family life. Huckerby and Roberts for example said this was a reason to stay. If his family is settled and kids doing well in school then being the best paid player at Norwich isn’t the worst job in the world, especially when there is a good chance of more premiership football to come.

[chicken 2,624]

3 hours ago, Monty13 said:

My point is any of which suggests he isn’t happy with the current situation.

Yes, and I just pointed out that it is assumption for multiple different reasons that DON'T say he is unhappy with the current situation. Trying to get a new longer term contract doesn't mean he is unhappy. And again, his agent will do something like this to push for the best contract. None of that says he is unhappy.

Like I say, it is your assumption, which is yours to make should you wish, it isn't fact though, nor is it particularly reliable.