The worst news if true...

[chicken 2,624]

3 hours ago, komakino said:

1) I posted earlier that the player instructs the agent, not the other way around.

2) I don’t believe Smith would accept Pukki being sold unless a decent replacement was being brought in. 

1) Yes, I was literally responding to you. Hence why that is an incredibly naïve view to have on how agents work.
2) Really? You think Smith has the final say so on that? You think other departures had the blessing in that way of the manager? 

[komakino 272]

9 minutes ago, chicken said:

1) Yes, I was literally responding to you. Hence why that is an incredibly naïve view to have on how agents work.
2) Really? You think Smith has the final say so on that? You think other departures had the blessing in that way of the manager? 

Neither of us know who has the final say, yet Webber has previously gone on record that he had the ultimate say when Farke was coach. 

However, in a scenario where a crucial player is sold - in this hypothetical case Pukki - at the end of a transfer window where a potential replacement has not been brought in - this would be severely undermining the manager and it would not surprise me if such a situation happened- and I’m not saying it will by the way - Smith would resign. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by komakino

[Monty13 2,233]

53 minutes ago, chicken said:

Yes, and I just pointed out that it is assumption for multiple different reasons that DON'T say he is unhappy with the current situation. Trying to get a new longer term contract doesn't mean he is unhappy. And again, his agent will do something like this to push for the best contract. None of that says he is unhappy.

Like I say, it is your assumption, which is yours to make should you wish, it isn't fact though, nor is it particularly reliable.

Which in itself has relative levels of happiness, which is what I pointed out to LDC when you jumped in.

I didn’t say he was unhappy overall at Norwich. I said the fact he wants to change the current situation suggests he isn’t happy with the status quo.

If he’s happy with everything, why’s he attempting (through his agent) to make changes?

If he’s happy with the length of his contract why’s he looking to make changes?

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

2 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

Do we know the age of his children? I say this because one of the selling points for staying at Norwich is it is a great place for schools and family life. Huckerby and Roberts for example said this was a reason to stay. If his family is settled and kids doing well in school then being the best paid player at Norwich isn’t the worst job in the world, especially when there is a good chance of more premiership football to come.

Wouldn’t be too sure about using Huck’s as an example of this 😬

Edited July 2, 2022 by SwearyCanary

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 hour ago, SwearyCanary said:

Wouldn’t be too sure about using Huck’s as an example of this 😬

He wanted to stay and finish his career here, even if he wasn’t given that chance.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

7 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

He wanted to stay and finish his career here, even if he wasn’t given that chance.

I was thinking more about the ‘kids doing well in school’ bit. 

[hertfordyellow 460]

41 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

I was thinking more about the ‘kids doing well in school’ bit. 

Oh not aware of this story

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

18 hours ago, Mullet said:

Any professional footballer would want to play at the highest level,  except Harry Kane

I think a couple of seasons ago that could of been true with the interest from Man City but I’d say they are about even now. He’s the captain of England, his side are top 4 and in the champions league next year. They have one of the best managers in the world. I think spurs have a chance at winning the league under Conte

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

58 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

Oh not aware of this story

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/huckerby-devastated-as-norwich-robberies-son-sentenced-1554274
 

To be fair to Hucks I was being a bit tongue in cheek as he is clearly very happy here and had been keen to be part of the community since he arrived.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

1 hour ago, SwearyCanary said:

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/huckerby-devastated-as-norwich-robberies-son-sentenced-1554274
 

To be fair to Hucks I was being a bit tongue in cheek as he is clearly very happy here and had been keen to be part of the community since he arrived.

I also walked past him at the Dereham game on Friday, not sure if he was there as part of any official duty or just as a fan.

[chicken 2,624]

12 hours ago, Monty13 said:

I said the fact he wants to change the current situation suggests he isn’t happy with the status quo.

If he’s happy with everything, why’s he attempting (through his agent) to make changes?

If he’s happy with the length of his contract why’s he looking to make changes?

It isn't a "fact", that's the point. You can't claim it to be either.

You actually started your original point by saying he wanted a move away, not that he wasn't 100% happy.

And like I said, we don't know 100% the motivation behind his agent. Again, there is plenty of precedent of agents turning up the heat publicly to get the best deal possible for their player. The player may well be absolutely happy at the club they are at, but with what could be their final ever football contract, might just want to make sure it's the best one they could secure.

None of that has to mean anyone is unhappy or wants to move.

As for his contract, it's a year. Typically players within a year of the end of their contract will be in dialogue with their club. Either about extending it or whether or not the club will be not be looking at extending it.

A player of Pukki's stature, right now, at this moment in time, if they were really unhappy, could push for a move, could tell the club they want to leave. That very clearly has not happened. The agent has stated that has not happened.

Hence why I say this sounds a lot more like agent talk than anything else. You can very easily sum up what the agent has said as:

Pukki wants to play at as high a level as possible. Some clubs have made noises in the UK and abroad. It would only take a serious offer to prize him away from Norwich who are rightly, valuing him as one of their top players. As a result, as of yet, zero genuine interest. The agent has said that he believes it is because of the likely valuation. That to me says he has an idea of what it is and the clubs that would want Pukki can't afford it.

None of that is anything new. Happens every summer with many different players. Doesn't mean they are anymore unhappy than the previous summer. I am almost certain that Pukki would have been of the same mindset after the last relegation from the premier league, the only real difference then would have been covid and moving whilst that all went on would be risky.

At the end of the day it's all an absolute nothing of a story. And you cannot state assumption as fact in the way you do.

[BigFish 1,986]

14 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

Do we know the age of his children? I say this because one of the selling points for staying at Norwich is it is a great place for schools and family life.

People often say that, but in reality I am not sure just how much truth there is in it. Footballers are millionaires and can get great lifestyles pretty much anywhere. Robert Green said Norwich was a city the size of a town with the mentality of a village, which was an accurate description of how a footballer might view the area, particularly a young footballer. Plenty of other areas would serve hime better. If he stays it will be because he is happy in his job and/or he gets no better offers. End of story.

[chicken 2,624]

13 hours ago, komakino said:

Neither of us know who has the final say, yet Webber has previously gone on record that he had the ultimate say when Farke was coach. 

However, in a scenario where a crucial player is sold - in this hypothetical case Pukki - at the end of a transfer window where a potential replacement has not been brought in - this would be severely undermining the manager and it would not surprise me if such a situation happened- and I’m not saying it will by the way - Smith would resign. 

If you go back to Farke and do a thorough search, the same with Webber, you'll note several interviews where they talk about part of being at this football club is sadly selling some of your better players to balance the books or generate funds to invest back in the team.

I believe Farke has said, it may have been on Buendia, that he did not want to lose a player but the position of the player/club meant we had to.

That's the reality. Players are sold/moved on for various reasons. Sometimes the manager deems them surplus to requirements, sometimes the players demand a move, refuse to commit any further to the club, sometimes the financial needs of the club outweigh the needs on the pitch, sometimes even player conduct will dictate their future.

Does the head coach always have the last say? No.

Webber has been clear that he does everything in consultation with the head coach. Sometimes that consultation might be more of informing them, sometimes it may be a choice. 

[chicken 2,624]

14 minutes ago, BigFish said:

People often say that, but in reality I am not sure just how much truth there is in it. Footballers are millionaires and can get great lifestyles pretty much anywhere. Robert Green said Norwich was a city the size of a town with the mentality of a village, which was an accurate description of how a footballer might view the area, particularly a young footballer. Plenty of other areas would serve hime better. If he stays it will be because he is happy in his job and/or he gets no better offers. End of story.

I would say that sounds to me like an inexperienced view of the area. And also very much a minority view when it comes to footballers. The list who have come here, enjoyed it and have returned to live after their careers is much longer than the one or two that haven't and whinged.

That view is one that sounds much like some of my friends said as 17-18yr olds when looking at universities and their futures.
"I want to be somewhere things are happening, like London!" Was exactly what several said. As of this moment, of those friends that did that, I know none that stayed there. Some have returned to Norwich, like me. It's a very poor and uninformed view.

I certainly wouldn't take Green's view as the "norm".

Roberts, Huckerby, Hoolahan, Ashton, Anselin, Milligan, Fleck... and many, many more have stayed in the area, or retained a property in the area in view of returning even with their careers taking them elsewhere.

In regards to schools and raising children. It is pretty well known that Norfolk is a relatively safe area in that regards. Only two areas in England have a lower crime rate, the South West and the South East (which is actually pretty similar). 

Edited July 3, 2022 by chicken

[norfolkngood 1,087]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

If you go back to Farke and do a thorough search, the same with Webber, you'll note several interviews where they talk about part of being at this football club is sadly selling some of your better players to balance the books or generate funds to invest back in the team.

I believe Farke has said, it may have been on Buendia, that he did not want to lose a player but the position of the player/club meant we had to.

That's the reality. Players are sold/moved on for various reasons. Sometimes the manager deems them surplus to requirements, sometimes the players demand a move, refuse to commit any further to the club, sometimes the financial needs of the club outweigh the needs on the pitch, sometimes even player conduct will dictate their future.

Does the head coach always have the last say? No.

Webber has been clear that he does everything in consultation with the head coach. Sometimes that consultation might be more of informing them, sometimes it may be a choice. 

i think you are right there 

Webber and the board run the club and if they think it is right numbers for Pukki to go i am sure he would 

Smith might not agree and might still want the player and can put his case across why etc and who will he be replaced by etc 

but it comes down to Webber

IF it did happen and pukki left i am sure Smith and Shakey if they felt that Strongly have a choice do they want to carry on under webber 

[Monty13 2,233]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

It isn't a "fact", that's the point. You can't claim it to be either.

You actually started your original point by saying he wanted a move away, not that he wasn't 100% happy.

And like I said, we don't know 100% the motivation behind his agent. Again, there is plenty of precedent of agents turning up the heat publicly to get the best deal possible for their player. The player may well be absolutely happy at the club they are at, but with what could be their final ever football contract, might just want to make sure it's the best one they could secure.

None of that has to mean anyone is unhappy or wants to move.

As for his contract, it's a year. Typically players within a year of the end of their contract will be in dialogue with their club. Either about extending it or whether or not the club will be not be looking at extending it.

A player of Pukki's stature, right now, at this moment in time, if they were really unhappy, could push for a move, could tell the club they want to leave. That very clearly has not happened. The agent has stated that has not happened.

Hence why I say this sounds a lot more like agent talk than anything else. You can very easily sum up what the agent has said as:

Pukki wants to play at as high a level as possible. Some clubs have made noises in the UK and abroad. It would only take a serious offer to prize him away from Norwich who are rightly, valuing him as one of their top players. As a result, as of yet, zero genuine interest. The agent has said that he believes it is because of the likely valuation. That to me says he has an idea of what it is and the clubs that would want Pukki can't afford it.

None of that is anything new. Happens every summer with many different players. Doesn't mean they are anymore unhappy than the previous summer. I am almost certain that Pukki would have been of the same mindset after the last relegation from the premier league, the only real difference then would have been covid and moving whilst that all went on would be risky.

At the end of the day it's all an absolute nothing of a story. And you cannot state assumption as fact in the way you do.

We have been told through Pukki’s representative that Pukki has had discussions with the club about a move. We’ve also been told that no discussions have took place around a new contract. The club has had ample time to comment and presuming Archant are doing their jobs, which they will be because they are professional journalists, will also have been asked for comment. 

You can wax lyrical about lying Agents and other motivations but those are the facts as we know them. The fact that NCFC haven’t denied the situation is telling.

Pukki clearly isn’t completely happy with the status quo as otherwise we wouldn’t be hearing about it. It feels like you are just being massively pedantic about that.

[komakino 272]

40 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

i think you are right there 

Webber and the board run the club and if they think it is right numbers for Pukki to go i am sure he would 

Smith might not agree and might still want the player and can put his case across why etc and who will he be replaced by etc 

but it comes down to Webber

IF it did happen and pukki left i am sure Smith and Shakey if they felt that Strongly have a choice do they want to carry on under webber 

I think this where potentially the D.o.F position goes too far, as there needs to be harmony and agreement, in this case between Webber and Smith, with the inevitable compromises. 
 

Pukki being sold without a replacement would simply be bad business and would irk any manager. However, I would like to think Webber would not be foolish enough to do that if it was against his coach’s wishes as it would leave us in a vulnerable position. 
 

 

[shefcanary 2,405]

43 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Pukki clearly isn’t completely happy with the status quo as otherwise we wouldn’t be hearing about it. It feels like you are just being massively pedantic about that.

Indeed, if a player wasn't happy with last seasons overall performance, that would be disappointing. Let's hope he stays and leads from the front to regain our position in the top flight!  I think that is an outcome that most on here would willingly accept!

[chicken 2,624]

1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

We have been told through Pukki’s representative that Pukki has had discussions with the club about a move. We’ve also been told that no discussions have took place around a new contract. The club has had ample time to comment and presuming Archant are doing their jobs, which they will be because they are professional journalists, will also have been asked for comment. 

You can wax lyrical about lying Agents and other motivations but those are the facts as we know them. The fact that NCFC haven’t denied the situation is telling.

Pukki clearly isn’t completely happy with the status quo as otherwise we wouldn’t be hearing about it. It feels like you are just being massively pedantic about that.

Around 3mins into this vid:
https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/canaries-ncfc-teemu-pukki-premier-league-future-9103752

The reporter states there was no talk of that, I believe eluding to any ongoing contract talks. So we don't know. He also says "it feels like" - so again, that is assumption on his part. It's really important to pick up on aspects like that because if a reporter isn't sure, as in they haven't been told directly, they will often use phrases such as "feels like", "seemed to me", "I might be wrong but..."

At the same time he said that the option being taken up "felt like" a one sided thing. We know for a fact it is one sided, the option is for the club, not the player. It can be taken up without consultation with the player. It was negotiated when the deal was originally signed. So all parties knew what the option was. This is reporter speak again, "felt like"... I don't think Pukki or his agent are daft enough to think that the option wouldn't have been taken up for whatever reason.

I'm not waxing about lying agents either.

You have categorically stated as fact that Pukki wants a move away. You have then reduced that to being less happy than before. Neither of which we know to be "fact". We don't know how happy Pukki was last season, or the season before or the first season in the premier league.

Again, in summary, there is nothing particularly definitive or unusual about what has been said. It doesn't indicate anything particularly. It may be a simple weighing up of options. If Pukki, only a couple of days later, has told Smith he is staying, then you can draw a line under all of this and simply call it opportunistic work from the agent to try and see what actual interest there really is in his player and nothing more. 

[Monty13 2,233]

12 minutes ago, chicken said:

Around 3mins into this vid:
https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/canaries-ncfc-teemu-pukki-premier-league-future-9103752

The reporter states there was no talk of that, I believe eluding to any ongoing contract talks. So we don't know. He also says "it feels like" - so again, that is assumption on his part. It's really important to pick up on aspects like that because if a reporter isn't sure, as in they haven't been told directly, they will often use phrases such as "feels like", "seemed to me", "I might be wrong but..."

At the same time he said that the option being taken up "felt like" a one sided thing. We know for a fact it is one sided, the option is for the club, not the player. It can be taken up without consultation with the player. It was negotiated when the deal was originally signed. So all parties knew what the option was. This is reporter speak again, "felt like"... I don't think Pukki or his agent are daft enough to think that the option wouldn't have been taken up for whatever reason.

I'm not waxing about lying agents either.

You have categorically stated as fact that Pukki wants a move away. You have then reduced that to being less happy than before. Neither of which we know to be "fact". We don't know how happy Pukki was last season, or the season before or the first season in the premier league.

Again, in summary, there is nothing particularly definitive or unusual about what has been said. It doesn't indicate anything particularly. It may be a simple weighing up of options. If Pukki, only a couple of days later, has told Smith he is staying, then you can draw a line under all of this and simply call it opportunistic work from the agent to try and see what actual interest there really is in his player and nothing more. 

In summary you’re writing awful lots and being massively pedantic and condescending about information that has been widely reported on and hasn’t been denied by either Pukki’s team or the club.

Pukki’s team has been in contact with Norwich about a move.

You can also logically infer from that, whether you like it or not, the current status quo isn’t desirable for Pukki.

[Thumbbass 318]

3 hours ago, BigFish said:

People often say that, but in reality I am not sure just how much truth there is in it. Footballers are millionaires and can get great lifestyles pretty much anywhere. Robert Green said Norwich was a city the size of a town with the mentality of a village, which was an accurate description of how a footballer might view the area, particularly a young footballer. Plenty of other areas would serve hime better. If he stays it will be because he is happy in his job and/or he gets no better offers. End of story.

Rob Green used to come back to sit on the fruit machine in the rose tavern when he was playing at West ham so there's more than one way to look at that!

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

Lots of interesting discussion but the fact none of us knows what's been said between Webber, Smith, Pukki and his agent.

NCFC is in a relative position of strength at the moment in that Teemu is under contract. As from January he can talk to other clubs about next season, then the situation changes significantly. Obviously he is unlikely to sign and extended contract with us until January comes around, but who knows after that.

 

[Nora's Ghost 157]

Pukki along with the rest of them are simply well paid employees of a company.

 

Try not to lose all sight of reality.

[Canaries north 151]

1 hour ago, Thumbbass said:

Rob Green used to come back to sit on the fruit machine in the rose tavern when he was playing at West ham so there's more than one way to look at that!

I used to spend too much time in the Rose and remember him playing the quiz machine but I could be wrong. His description of Norwich is very accurate but I know he enjoyed living here, I can also see why for a lot of young players they might not. He did not strike me as your average football player and I've met a few on a social level. Peter Crouch said he was the only one on the England bus reading a book and it doesn't surprise me. Also he did spend time in the pub but only drank soft drinks during the season if I remember correctly but you could still smoke in the pub then so he probably passive smoked a packet of 20 every night. 

[hertfordyellow 460]

5 hours ago, BigFish said:

People often say that, but in reality I am not sure just how much truth there is in it. Footballers are millionaires and can get great lifestyles pretty much anywhere. Robert Green said Norwich was a city the size of a town with the mentality of a village, which was an accurate description of how a footballer might view the area, particularly a young footballer. Plenty of other areas would serve hime better. If he stays it will be because he is happy in his job and/or he gets no better offers. End of story.

Yep all footballers think the same. Robert Green represents them all. Thanks for clarifying.

[Canaries north 151]

2 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

Yep all footballers think the same. Robert Green represents them all. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm sure not all footballers feel the same but for a kid who's grown up in a big city coming to Norwich must be a shock and the same for a kid from the country going to a big city. The problem is more people grow up in big cities now than in the country side. This is of course a very big generalisation but I'm sure it holds some truth.

 

I can't say I know much about Pukki's youth or Finland at all but I would take a wild guess Norwich would be more like what he grew up in than possibly Glasgow or London. 

[BigFish 1,986]

5 hours ago, chicken said:

I would say that sounds to me like an inexperienced view of the area. And also very much a minority view when it comes to footballers. The list who have come here, enjoyed it and have returned to live after their careers is much longer than the one or two that haven't and whinged.

That view is one that sounds much like some of my friends said as 17-18yr olds when looking at universities and their futures.
"I want to be somewhere things are happening, like London!" Was exactly what several said. As of this moment, of those friends that did that, I know none that stayed there. Some have returned to Norwich, like me. It's a very poor and uninformed view.

I certainly wouldn't take Green's view as the "norm".

Roberts, Huckerby, Hoolahan, Ashton, Anselin, Milligan, Fleck... and many, many more have stayed in the area, or retained a property in the area in view of returning even with their careers taking them elsewhere.

In regards to schools and raising children. It is pretty well known that Norfolk is a relatively safe area in that regards. Only two areas in England have a lower crime rate, the South West and the South East (which is actually pretty similar). 

 

2 hours ago, Thumbbass said:

Rob Green used to come back to sit on the fruit machine in the rose tavern when he was playing at West ham so there's more than one way to look at that!

 

25 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

Yep all footballers think the same. Robert Green represents them all. Thanks for clarifying.

Oh dear, oh dear I seem to have upset a few posters on here by having the temerity to suggest that Norfolk isn't a mythic Eldorado for millionaire footballers of European extraction. Norwich, and Norfolk, has many attractions and the City can be said to punch above its weight in cultural terms. But that weight is of a remote, medium size provincial town. But that is to miss the point. The idea that Pukki's kids being happy in school is somehow going to have more sway than several hundred thousands of pounds and the opportunity to reside elsewhere that could posibly equal or, heaven forbid, exceed the opportunities of the Fine City is frankly foolish.

[Canaries north 151]

36 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 

 

Oh dear, oh dear I seem to have upset a few posters on here by having the temerity to suggest that Norfolk isn't a mythic Eldorado for millionaire footballers of European extraction. Norwich, and Norfolk, has many attractions and the City can be said to punch above its weight in cultural terms. But that weight is of a remote, medium size provincial town. But that is to miss the point. The idea that Pukki's kids being happy in school is somehow going to have more sway than several hundred thousands of pounds and the opportunity to reside elsewhere that could posibly equal or, heaven forbid, exceed the opportunities of the Fine City is frankly foolish.

As you say Norwich is not the promised land for all players to live but for some it might be. As none of us are inside the Pukki family household we will probably never know. Kids in school would be a consideration but money is also. In football you are a long time retired. As for location I feel it matters more with younger players who want to be able to live that life than older players. Also let's be honest man city players don't live in moss side. For most football players there is somewhere nice to live within a half an hour Ferrari drive to training. Most London players live in the home counties as that's where the training grounds are. 

[shefcanary 2,405]

Given that most players are in academies from the age of 9 nowadays I think this whole thing of comparing Norwich to where they were brought up is redundant.  Once most players are in an academy they probably have very little exposure to what a normal young person would be exposed to. That is the devil's work of pubbing, clubbing, etc.  It will all be carefully supervised by the academy coaches and mentors.  Thus comparing Norwich to other major cities in England (apart from London) is pretty much a non-starter.  It is London's international draw only that might have an impact on a player's decision.  The performance on the pitch and what their agent tells them are the bigger issues than say comparing the nightlife of Norwich to Newcastle for instance.

[hertfordyellow 460]

3 hours ago, Canaries north said:

I'm sure not all footballers feel the same but for a kid who's grown up in a big city coming to Norwich must be a shock and the same for a kid from the country going to a big city. The problem is more people grow up in big cities now than in the country side. This is of course a very big generalisation but I'm sure it holds some truth.

 

I can't say I know much about Pukki's youth or Finland at all but I would take a wild guess Norwich would be more like what he grew up in than possibly Glasgow or London. 

Players tend to live near the training ground not the ground for obvious reasons. I lived in a town near St Albans where Arsenal had their training. I have met countless players over the years delivering papers working in restaurants etc.