Hernandez or Placheta?

[canarybubbles 2,199]

This is being incidentally discussed on another thread, so I thought I'd open a dedicated one.

For me, Hernandez. His attitude would be great to have around the club after we try to rebuild confidence and unity following last season. Yes, he's limited, but at least he takes on players and has some dribbling skills. He occasionally scores goals, too.

As many people point out, Placheta has little to offer other than speed. At the end of last season, I remember one wonderful through-ball to Pukki to give him a one-on-one (which Pukki missed), but my main reaction was shock that Placheta was capable of such a thing. Ordinarily, his brain seems several seconds behind his feet.

So perhaps neither, but if we have to keep one, I'd much rather it be Onel. 

[TheGunnShow 7,376]

Placheta for me. It's hard to go against Onel on a human level - you can't dislike a guy with his enthusiasm and passion for the club (especially if he gets a tattoo of it), but Placheta's got the better workrate off the ball. I've also thought for a long time Placheta was a plan B shoehorned in to little effect as his style of play didn't really fit in with neat, intricate Farkeball. Throughballs aren't really his thing, you need him to attack spaces at high speed and just wing something over for men charging into the box. We have a few player combinations that really don't seem to work. McLean - PLM is one, and I would say Placheta - Pukki is another.

If Idah and Sargent are going to be major planks next season, we'll need a few who can bang crosses in. Rashica can certainly do it. And I think Placheta could still pull it out of the fire if he's told to aim at those two.

[vlad666 207]

People go on about Plachetas speed but I don’t think I’ve ever seen him beat a man. Also zero end product. I’d much rather have Hernandez. At least on his day he’s a goal threat and probably our only player who attacks the defence and looks to take players on. Neither are good enough at the top level but I think Hernandez offers you more. 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,830]

Argos all the way.

[canarybubbles 2,199]

44 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Placheta for me. It's hard to go against Onel on a human level - you can't dislike a guy with his enthusiasm and passion for the club (especially if he gets a tattoo of it), but Placheta's got the better workrate off the ball. I've also thought for a long time Placheta was a plan B shoehorned in to little effect as his style of play didn't really fit in with neat, intricate Farkeball. Throughballs aren't really his thing, you need him to attack spaces at high speed and just wing something over for men charging into the box. We have a few player combinations that really don't seem to work. McLean - PLM is one, and I would say Placheta - Pukki is another.

If Idah and Sargent are going to be major planks next season, we'll need a few who can bang crosses in. Rashica can certainly do it. And I think Placheta could still pull it out of the fire if he's told to aim at those two.

But there seems a danger here of changing our style of play to suit a player who has generally been a failure so far (Placheta) rather than keeping our intricate style of play when we know have a player (Pukki) who has proved he excels at it. I know you see this as Plan B, but is it possible for a team to have a Plan A and Plan B which are so radically different?

I agree that Placheta's workrate off the ball is better.

I also agree with your description of Sargent as a 'major plank', but not in the way you mean. 😉

Edited June 24, 2022 by canarybubbles

[Canary Wundaboy 1,423]

Hernandez. It isn’t even close. Placheta is fast but can’t beat a man, has no footballing brain and has no record of performing for us at any level. Hernandez may not be EPL quality but the bloke loves this club and has done the business for us here before.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

Placheta of the two, as he's younger and there is still some potential there, which fits the self-sufficiency model better.

I was surprised when Hernadez was loaned out when it first happened. I seem to remember he stood out a bit and did relatively well during Farke's inglorious Premier League run first time around.  I believe that he also has subsequently done well at Birmingham ... although they didn't seem to want to take the player (or the cost?) further.

Neither would be a starter for the upcoming season though, imo, so both are dispensable at the right price. This might not amount to much.

Thanks Onel, a part of the dream.

Nice try PP, but more was expected.

[Danke bitte 1,154]

2 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Neither would be a starter for the upcoming season though, imo, so both are dispensable at the right price. This might not amount to much

Spot on. I would also throw In Hernandez’s injury record with us isn’t great either. 

[All the Germans 1,237]

36 minutes ago, vlad666 said:

People go on about Plachetas speed but I don’t think I’ve ever seen him beat a man. Also zero end product. I’d much rather have Hernandez. At least on his day he’s a goal threat and probably our only player who attacks the defence and looks to take players on. Neither are good enough at the top level but I think Hernandez offers you more. 

This. I'm starting to think his speed is a myth. I've either never seen him use it - in any situation - or he isn't as fast as we've been told.

 

Edit - back to the subject; Onel, without any question. It's not even close.

Edited June 24, 2022 by All the Germans

[cambridgeshire canary 7,797]

Hernandez has proved himself in the championship and is a great guy too.

 

Don't think Placheta has proved himself anywhere

[Mason 47 1,921]

We've a number of sore-thumb looking players in the squad that came about when we went searching for a plan B, for the odd occasion Farkeball wasn't finding a way. Problem was we still played the same system.

Placheta is an out-and-out winger designed to run and kick, that's it. You can practically see the buffering symbol spinning above his head whenever he's trying to remember his tactical instructions. There's nothing individually wrong with that but if we generally don't play with forward width or utilise wingers he's always going to look wonky.

Hernandez has elements of the same but is less about speed than change of direction, and for that reason I'd choose him in this scenario. We know both won't cut it in the Prem but only one has looked dangerous at Championship level.

[Dr Greenthumb 792]

Hernandez is a much better player and I really was rooting for Placheta, he just isn’t that good

[KeiranShikari 1,524]

Placheta.

[TheGunnShow 7,376]

35 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

But there seems a danger here of changing our style of play to suit a player who has generally been a failure so far (Placheta) rather than keeping our intricate style of play when we know have a player (Pukki) who has proved he excels at it. I know you see this as Plan B, but is it possible for a team to have a Plan A and Plan B which are so radically different?

I agree that Placheta's workrate off the ball is better.

I also agree with your description of Sargent as a 'major plank', but not in the way you mean. 😉

Smith's not going to stay with a style as intricate as Farke did so what I think you'll see is a less intricate Plan A with a more direct Plan B. On top of that, Pukki's going to need rests now and again in this compacted season. Idah needs more game time to see if his potential can be fulfilled. Sargent's workrate and sheer nuisance value, along with having a year to settle in, could make him a dangerous player at this level.

I'd also point out that Pukki looked very dangerous alongside Idah for a different reason to usual. A Pukki leading the line is dangerous because of his movement off the last shoulder. A Pukki playing with Idah tends to drop into the number 10 position somewhat, especially with his own workrate when not in possession.

You'll still have a dangerous Pukki in there, it's just that his game intelligence means he can come up with different threats.

[canarybubbles 2,199]

Alternatively, instead of having an out-and-out winger, maybe we can go to a 3-5-2, using Aarons (if he stays) or perhaps Bali Mumba (who looks good going forward) to provide the width? Both Aarons and Mumba look far more comfortable if they decide to move in-field, which might make us more flexible in formation and harder to predict?

[Mason 47 1,921]

2 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

Alternatively, instead of having an out-and-out winger, maybe we can go to a 3-5-2, using Aarons (if he stays) or perhaps Bali Mumba (who looks good going forward) to provide the width? Both Aarons and Mumba look far more comfortable if they decide to move in-field, which might make us more flexible in formation and harder to predict?

All the outgoing rumours surround wide players at the moment, so I'd agree. I've thought for a while 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 would play to the best strengths of the majority of our squad (the latter may be because I've become infatuated with the formation on FM with inverted wingers however)

[hogesar 10,761]

Hernandez got 3 goals and 3 assists for Birmingham despite quite often being deployed as a Wing-Back (to the frustration of their fans, it seems).That was in 1800 minutes.

Even in our top tier Championship season under Farke where we were creating plenty, scoring plenty and dominating games, in 1100 minutes Placheta managed 1 goal and 0 assists. I don't really remember him ever dominating a full-back.

Hernandez has occasionally shown he can do that. There's not a huge amount in it, but Onel just edges it.

[glory.win or die. 273]

Hernandez offers alot more end product.

Plachetas pace in the championship scores defenders, i think that alone won us 2 or 3 pens in the last champs season but I remember away to Bristol City, or even Watford in the prem when we broke, he's in a great position but fails to score or make the correct final pass.

I think Sinani is worth a mention too who I would also put ahead of Placheta plus Rowe and Springett 

[canarybubbles 2,199]

11 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Smith's not going to stay with a style as intricate as Farke did so what I think you'll see is a less intricate Plan A with a more direct Plan B. On top of that, Pukki's going to need rests now and again in this compacted season. Idah needs more game time to see if his potential can be fulfilled. Sargent's workrate and sheer nuisance value, along with having a year to settle in, could make him a dangerous player at this level.

I'd also point out that Pukki looked very dangerous alongside Idah for a different reason to usual. A Pukki leading the line is dangerous because of his movement off the last shoulder. A Pukki playing with Idah tends to drop into the number 10 position somewhat, especially with his own workrate when not in possession.

You'll still have a dangerous Pukki in there, it's just that his game intelligence means he can come up with different threats.

I agree that Smith will discard the intricacy of Farke's style, but where I disagree is your comment that this will still leave us with a dangerous Pukki. People focus on his age, but because his play is based on intelligence rather than speed or strength, I think we can get at least two more years out of him near his peak. And therefore it's worth playing a style based around him rather than a style which negates his qualities. Just my opinion.

Although, to be honest, I don't expect him to be here next season.

[lake district canary 4,823]

I think they are both potentially good for us to have in the squad.

Hernandez can be frustrating at times, but he has it in him to be a match winner. I remember his goal away at Middlesborough as being a huge moment in our season - the one player who in a stalemate of a match was able to come up with a bit of desciveness to win the match that day. 

Placheta is a work in progress - reminds me a bit of Redmond - had great pace but struggled to find a way of using it to it's best advantage. Redmond found his feet eventually and I think Placheta can do the same.

 

[TheGunnShow 7,376]

Just now, canarybubbles said:

I agree that Smith will discard the intricacy of Farke's style, but where I disagree is your comment that this will still leave us with a dangerous Pukki. People focus on his age, but because his play is based on intelligence rather than speed or strength, I think we can get at least two more years out of him near his peak. And therefore it's worth playing a style based around him rather than a style which negates his qualities. Just my opinion.

Although, to be honest, I don't expect him to be here next season.

I'm saying Pukki's dangerous because of his intelligence, but the original plan couldn't be worse for Placheta. It suits Hernandez somewhat better as another poster correctly mentioned that Hernandez's game is more about rapid changes of direction so he'll snake to the bye-line and cut one back (where Pukki is very dangerous) or float it.

Placheta doesn't suit Pukki if Pukki's on his own up top. PP's game is about getting wide and getting flighted balls in, or less frequently, cutting inside and hitting one himself. Pukki's got a lot of strengths, but heading isn't one of them. 

Put a couple of big men to aim at in that 4-4-2, so Idah up top and Sargent on the other flank (just like how he scored that header against Watford when Rashica went down the left and sent a nice juicy moonball over their centre-halves to a mismatched small left-back against Josh Sargent, who saw it and thought YEEE-HAAAAH!!) and I think we could get something out of Placheta yet.

[king canary 8,750]

If Placheta wasn't fast he'd be a League Two player at best.

No skill, no trickery, limited end product and minimal footballing intelligence. If we can get some money for him, bite their hand off. Rowe looked like a more complete player than him this season and he's 5 years younger with much less experience. 

[king canary 8,750]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Placheta doesn't suit Pukki

Placheta doesn't suit football.

[hogesar 10,761]

5 minutes ago, king canary said:

If Placheta wasn't fast he'd be a League Two player at best.

No skill, no trickery, limited end product and minimal footballing intelligence. If we can get some money for him, bite their hand off. Rowe looked like a more complete player than him this season and he's 5 years younger with much less experience. 

It's probably been his biggest problem, and I'm guessing they thought Farke could coach more awareness into him. But it's clear he still doesn't know what runs to make and when, he doesn't know when to peel off a CB or drift inwards, the only thing he's been able to do better under Smith is disciplined work-rate, but he's not looked dangerous in any game and he's supposed to be a winger.

[TheGunnShow 7,376]

20 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Hernandez got 3 goals and 3 assists for Birmingham despite quite often being deployed as a Wing-Back (to the frustration of their fans, it seems).That was in 1800 minutes.

Even in our top tier Championship season under Farke where we were creating plenty, scoring plenty and dominating games, in 1100 minutes Placheta managed 1 goal and 0 assists. I don't really remember him ever dominating a full-back.

Hernandez has occasionally shown he can do that. There's not a huge amount in it, but Onel just edges it.

Didn't Onel actually play up top in a couple of those games?

[hogesar 10,761]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Didn't Onel actually play up top in a couple of those games?

I think he actually did, and also as a number 10 one game, which certainly wouldn't suit him. I know the Birmingham fans really liked him as a winger then were annoyed his 'skill and pace' were wasted at wing-back for them.

[daisy 145]

Placheta shouldn't be anywhere near the first time, awful player. Onel is streets ahead of him but even he should only be a squad player. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,614]

Hernandez, clearly, for me. I wouldn't be opposed to see him stay as backup, although we will hopefully have the options available to let him go. 

Placheta however is just not good enough, even for the Championship. I was excited when we signed him but have been bitterly disappointed, even after giving him 12 months or so to settle in and prove himself. It seems both Norwich and Poland have persisted with him up to now based on his 'potential', but he's 24 now and still has limited technical skill, no end product and not much footballing intelligence. Even Farke, with a phenomenal record of youth development, couldn't get any improvement out of him in 15 months or so. The only mitigating factor I can think of is a lack of confidence, but if we can fool someone on the continent into giving us a bit of cash for him based on the fact he's a Polish international, then I'd be delighted.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

I must admit Placheta has never got me off my seat watching him. He had one or two decent games last time in the EFL but he isn't a player I would automatically be putting into the starting XI.

The same applies to Onel except he does have that ability to get me off said seat. Whether he can still do that is questionable.

Contracts nowadays do put clubs in a precarious position. You don't want to spend money on a player and not tie him to the club but neither do you want a dud on your books for three years.

[Badger 2,745]

Onel for me.

He has delivered in the past and provides us with flexibility within the squad which will prove invaluable in a highly condensed season. We will need players who can come in and do a job to relieve players who will be on a remorseless two game a week schedule. He can play both wings + has been used as a wing back and a number 10.