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Derby - deal to end administration is collapsing

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On 08/06/2022 at 16:14, TheGunnShow said:

From the perspective of a football fan, the notion of a club going under makes me queasy and I'd feel bloody sorry for Derby fans if that were to happen. And I'd applaud them if they decided to set up a phoenix club and start afresh, like AFC Wimbledon.

However, consistent bending over and bailing out does encourage other clubs to try their luck.

AFC stands for A failed club 

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2 hours ago, astro said:

That’s not really fair on their fans though is it?

But it is not fair on other clubs and their fans if clubs such as Derby cheat and in effect get away with it. The fans of Wycombe Wanderers should have been watching their team in the Championship this season.

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On 08/06/2022 at 17:05, keelansgrandad said:

Seems daft that the sale of the ground is the sticking point. If Morris wants too much then someone should tell him to get real. If the new buyer doesn't want to pay a decent sum then he should get real.

Compromise.

My first meeting with compromise was when Mum took me off the breast and put me on the bottle.

Mel Morris is not only the entity involved with the ground!

I believe Derby have an outstanding loan of around £20m owed US Finance company MSD. This loan is secured against the ground. Even if Morris wished to transfer the ground to the new owner for a norminal £1 he wouldn't be able to without MSD being paid off or MSD agreeing to roll the debt over to post-admin Derby County.

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3 hours ago, astro said:

That’s not really fair on their fans though is it?

Proper fans will do what AFC Wimbledon did when they had their club stolen from them. I'd personally relish watching Norwich rebuild from next to nothing and climb up the non-league pyramid. If enough fans stuck with the club then they would rise again.

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8 hours ago, Google Bot said:

I guess the question is whether they get more money by writing some of the debt off AND getting paid, than if they watch Derby go into liquidation?

If millions get written off it really is a **** take in regards to the Bury situation.  I get that it's a game of percentages, but absolutes are absolutes.

Yes, think that you are right. Derby hardly have  any assets, so a small percentage of £30 million is a lot more than 100% of nothing!

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4 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

But it is not fair on other clubs and their fans if clubs such as Derby cheat and in effect get away with it. The fans of Wycombe Wanderers should have been watching their team in the Championship this season.

Yeah, good point. A real catch 22 situation!

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4 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

But it is not fair on other clubs and their fans if clubs such as Derby cheat and in effect get away with it. The fans of Wycombe Wanderers should have been watching their team in the Championship this season.

This is the fairest view.

There’s also for me an undeniable element of ‘serve you right’ to those who dance with the devil and guess what, get burned. Them banknote-waving Marcus Evans fans are a case in point, after what happened afterwards.

 

Edited by GenerationA47
Unfinished symphony

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3 hours ago, Badger said:

Yes, think that you are right. Derby hardly have  any assets, so a small percentage of £30 million is a lot more than 100% of nothing!

The lack of assets make me wonder what a buyer is actually getting, aside from the season ticket revenue. I believe they have only  five players under contract at the moment.

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10 hours ago, Icecream Snow said:

The lack of assets make me wonder what a buyer is actually getting, aside from the season ticket revenue. I believe they have only  five players under contract at the moment.

In essence they are buying the brand name and brand loyalty.

Depending on what they pay for it, Derby could make a new owner a lot of money, which seems to be the name of the game. Mike Ashley is still supposed to be sniffing around.

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Latest update:

Kirchner has not come up with the money but is still "working on it." the Athletic is reporting that his company has missed payments of about $800,000 on a sponsorship deal he has with NHL Dallas Stars and is behind on payments to some of his staff.

Mike Ashley is reported as being  interested but does not want to pay the administrator's fees  (wanting the administrators to take a haircut?). I suspect that he may be annoyed that they did not chose him over Kirchner  in the first place.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11696/12631497/derby-county-chris-kirchners-deadline-to-buy-rams-passes-without-progression

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Its up to the authorities now to either alter the rules or get tougher with clubs who are found to have broken them.

The greed of the EPL is having a trickle down effect on all football and perhaps sport in general. The Rugby Premier league is a closed shop for the next two seasons for instance.

Until they sort out the very top, the basement will suffer even greater hardship. How many posters have told us that a certain player, discarded by his club, won't come to Norwich because of the wages? They are obscene and until something is done, clubs and ultimately, supporters will suffer.

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11 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Its up to the authorities now to either alter the rules or get tougher with clubs who are found to have broken them.

The greed of the EPL is having a trickle down effect on all football and perhaps sport in general. The Rugby Premier league is a closed shop for the next two seasons for instance.

Until they sort out the very top, the basement will suffer even greater hardship. How many posters have told us that a certain player, discarded by his club, won't come to Norwich because of the wages? They are obscene and until something is done, clubs and ultimately, supporters will suffer.

UEFA have changed the rules - clubs will have to limit wages/ transfer fees and agent fees to 70% of revenue by 2025 (being phased in). Hasn't yet been applied to EPL and EFL but it's almost certain that it will be (or something similar).

(When/ if we get our rich new owner they won't be able to subsidise the playing side in any case  - but I don't want to spoil peoples' fun 😃)

https://www.uefa.com/returntoplay/news/0274-14da0ce4535d-fa5b130ae9b6-1000--explainer-uefa-s-new-financial-sustainability-regulations/

Edited by Badger
Added link

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1 hour ago, Badger said:

Mike Ashley is still supposed to be sniffing around.

It's written in the stars Ashley'll pick them up on the cheap.  His HQ is down the road at Shirebrook so makes perfect logistical sense.

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1 hour ago, Badger said:

UEFA have changed the rules - clubs will have to limit wages/ transfer fees and agent fees to 70% of revenue by 2025 (being phased in). Hasn't yet been applied to EPL and EFL but it's almost certain that it will be (or something similar).

(When/ if we get our rich new owner they won't be able to subsidise the playing side in any case  - but I don't want to spoil peoples' fun 😃)

https://www.uefa.com/returntoplay/news/0274-14da0ce4535d-fa5b130ae9b6-1000--explainer-uefa-s-new-financial-sustainability-regulations/

However, it isn't going to stop the filthy rich keeping stable and within their means. I view this as a chance for the bigger clubs to become bigger.

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On 10/06/2022 at 19:03, canarydan23 said:

Proper fans will do what AFC Wimbledon did when they had their club stolen from them. I'd personally relish watching Norwich rebuild from next to nothing and climb up the non-league pyramid. If enough fans stuck with the club then they would rise again.

I have a good friend who is a 'stones' (Maidstone) fan and he reckons it has been a great experience watching the club come back from insolvency.

Edited by Newtopia

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2 hours ago, shefcanary said:

It's written in the stars Ashley'll pick them up on the cheap.  His HQ is down the road at Shirebrook so makes perfect logistical sense.

i am sure Ashley is waiting for the club to be wound up and will step in at the very last minute and get it for next to nothing that is what he is good at Business 

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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

However, it isn't going to stop the filthy rich keeping stable and within their means. I view this as a chance for the bigger clubs to become bigger.

Practically everything uefa does is exactly for that reason, it ensures the cash keeps flowing into their pockets...

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3 hours ago, shefcanary said:

It's written in the stars Ashley'll pick them up on the cheap.  His HQ is down the road at Shirebrook so makes perfect logistical sense.

It does seem very much like an Ashley deal! He likes to squeeze every last penny out of  firms in trouble.

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2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

However, it isn't going to stop the filthy rich keeping stable and within their means. I view this as a chance for the bigger clubs to become bigger.

The aim is to enable owners to maximise their profit from the clubs that they have bought. Chelsea are the "big" club that look most vulnerable to me.

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1 minute ago, Badger said:

The aim is to enable owners to maximise their profit from the clubs that they have bought. Chelsea are the "big" club that look most vulnerable to me.

Trouble is, the owners from the middle east aren't aiming for profit. Just image seeking.

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2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Trouble is, the owners from the middle east aren't aiming for profit. Just image seeking.

👍 Which is why the rules were changed.

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Derby's administrators reported that they are in discussion with several interested parties, including Kirchner. I know administration can be a complex thing, but this is a football club and they have been in administration for nearly 9 months now!

Does anybody know if there is a deadline? Can the league publish fixtures on the assumption that Derby will be ok? Will League One just be a team short if the worst happens?

Surely this situation is making another case for further reforms - perhaps there should be a list of EFL administrators. at least partly accountable to them, although I guess this could affect company law?

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25 minutes ago, Badger said:

Derby's administrators reported that they are in discussion with several interested parties, including Kirchner. I know administration can be a complex thing, but this is a football club and they have been in administration for nearly 9 months now!

Does anybody know if there is a deadline? Can the league publish fixtures on the assumption that Derby will be ok? Will League One just be a team short if the worst happens?

Surely this situation is making another case for further reforms - perhaps there should be a list of EFL administrators. at least partly accountable to them, although I guess this could affect company law?

Surely if the administrators were doing this job for anything other than a football club then it would have been wound up and liquidates months ago? The majority of football clubs on this country don't seem to be what would normally be classed as "a going concern" after all...

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10 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

Surely if the administrators were doing this job for anything other than a football club then it would have been wound up and liquidates months ago? The majority of football clubs on this country don't seem to be what would normally be classed as "a going concern" after all...

Simple answer is I don't know. I need the help of @shefcanary or another real accountant.

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1 hour ago, Badger said:

Simple answer is I don't know. I need the help of @shefcanary or another real accountant.

I hope you are not suggesting that one or two on here who multi post about finances are not real accountants Badger ? 😜

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37 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I hope you are not suggesting that one or two on here who multi post about finances are not real accountants Badger ? 😜

C

 

37 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I hope you are not suggesting that one or two on here who multi post about finances are not real accountants Badger ? 😜

Comprehension not a strong point? That's exactly what he's saying, including himself.  Just as people who know little about football post about it incessantly. Equally people with a skewed view of history rarely stop (T)wittering😉  on about past grievances, real or imagined.

Though I do admire a man that recognizes the limit of his abilities and acknowledges that others may know more.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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55 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

 

Though I do admire a man that recognizes the limit of his abilities and acknowledges that others may know more.

Not many of those on here.😉

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20 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Not many of those on here.😉

I disagree. There's loads and you won't prove me wrong.

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