finance Derby - deal to end administration is collapsing

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

4 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Not so much a miserabilist as a realist '. My historical knowledge of the club i sometimes have to post on here as those pompous know it alls you mention have sometimes displayed an outstanding lack of knowledge on numerous events in our history behind the scenes at Carrow Road.

As for the Canaries Trust of course they cannot be blamed for everything but i am happy to point out their history from day one back in 2002 because as you know a few posters on here were somewhat lacking in knowledge because all that appears to glisten is not gold no matter what websites and social media try to portray.

All that glisters is not gold (William Shakespeare) 

Glisters, not glistens. 

Pedant of the day award 🏆

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

From the perspective of a football fan, the notion of a club going under makes me queasy and I'd feel bloody sorry for Derby fans if that were to happen. And I'd applaud them if they decided to set up a phoenix club and start afresh, like AFC Wimbledon.

However, consistent bending over and bailing out does encourage other clubs to try their luck.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

Talking about football and financial restructurings, a fun fact. The terms of the restructuring we went through 12 or so years ago, when we got into some difficulties with repaying our debt, were such that if we had not subsequently been promoted to the Premier League then we would have had until last week to pay off AXA, our major lenders.

[Google Bot 3,259]

6 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

if we had not subsequently been promoted to the Premier League then we would have had until last week to pay off AXA

A sizeable portion of that loan was the cost to build the Jarrold stand wasn't it?   Sure everyone remembers Bowkett airing the option of us selling our ground, something that Derby have been forced to do, of course.

Parts of the car park of course, did get sold for the housing around the ground now.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

26 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Talking about football and financial restructurings, a fun fact. The terms of the restructuring we went through 12 or so years ago, when we got into some difficulties with repaying our debt, were such that if we had not subsequently been promoted to the Premier League then we would have had until last week to pay off AXA, our major lenders.

All hail Alan Bowkett, oh for the days of a chairman again.

[Duncan Edwards 2,223]

1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

All hail Alan Bowkett, oh for the days of a chairman again.

Get Balls Back! 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

1 minute ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Get Balls Back! 

Yes he would do Dunc.

[Indy 3,286]

Bowkett & Balls, sounds like a dodgy solicitors company……Have you been involved in an accident that wasn’t your fault?😉

[TIL 1010 4,722]

4 minutes ago, Indy said:

Bowkett & Balls, sounds like a dodgy solicitors company……Have you been involved in an accident that wasn’t your fault?😉

A far better option to run the club than Ward & Webber some might say.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Seems daft that the sale of the ground is the sticking point. If Morris wants too much then someone should tell him to get real. If the new buyer doesn't want to pay a decent sum then he should get real.

Compromise.

My first meeting with compromise was when Mum took me off the breast and put me on the bottle.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

33 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

A sizeable portion of that loan was the cost to build the Jarrold stand wasn't it?   Sure everyone remembers Bowkett airing the option of us selling our ground, something that Derby have been forced to do, of course.

Parts of the car park of course, did get sold for the housing around the ground now.

Yes. To double what was the South Stand in size, from 4,000 to 8,000.

[Badger 2,405]

53 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

A sizeable portion of that loan was the cost to build the Jarrold stand wasn't it?   Sure everyone remembers Bowkett airing the option of us selling our ground, something that Derby have been forced to do, of course.

Parts of the car park of course, did get sold for the housing around the ground now.

They weren't actually forced to do it - the ex-owner did it partly to break FFP rules but also to have some security if things went  "t1ts up." He still owns the ground (in another company, of course) which is one of the complications. As it stands, anyone buying Derby won't own the ground and will have to rent it.

[Badger 2,405]

23 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Seems daft that the sale of the ground is the sticking point. If Morris wants too much then someone should tell him to get real. If the new buyer doesn't want to pay a decent sum then he should get real.

Compromise.

My first meeting with compromise was when Mum took me off the breast and put me on the bottle.

Why would you expect him to compromise? He is vilified by Derby fans after putting in many tens of millions of pounds and may well be thinking "sod you then."

By all accounts, he put the club into administration after Derby fan protests were arranged.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

6 hours ago, First Wazzock said:

There wasn't this sort of wailing and gnashing of teeth when Bury disappeared

I can remember that being quite a big deal?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

18 minutes ago, Badger said:

Why would you expect him to compromise? He is vilified by Derby fans after putting in many tens of millions of pounds and may well be thinking "sod you then."

By all accounts, he put the club into administration after Derby fan protests were arranged.

Because compromise may well help the club. Surely he doesn't want it to wither.

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

3 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Standing terraces still, quite novel, albeit tiny!

It’s brilliant, only holds about 6000 though! 

[The Raptor 1,199]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

ground, something that Derby have been forced to do, of course.

I was always under the impression they willingly sold it at an inflated price as some kind of con job. Is that not that right?

[Google Bot 3,259]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

He still owns the ground (in another company, of course) which is one of the complications. As it stands, anyone buying Derby won't own the ground and will have to rent it.

Just reading about it now, it's more sinister than I realised.  Thanks for pointing this out.

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Because compromise may well help the club. Surely he doesn't want it to wither.

Perhaps, but he probably thinks that he doesn't owe Derby fans anything either. Nor does he want to lose any further money.

[Badger 2,405]

45 minutes ago, The Raptor said:

I was always under the impression they willingly sold it at an inflated price as some kind of con job. Is that not that right?

Yes. See my response to Google Bot above.

[essex canary 492]

6 hours ago, Indy said:

As usual the jump on a remark happens, I wasn’t comparing us directly to Derby, I was alluding to the fact it’s difficult to cut your clothe in this division the longer any club spends in it! The Binners, Sunderland, Derby, Sheff We’d, Leeds, Norwich among a host of clubs who paid the price of prolonged championship football all come under financial pressures, relegation to third tier……each had different circumstances but all troubled!

Without salary cap and squad numbers even the FFP for the championship doesn’t negate clubs getting into trouble, seriously in need of football to restructure itself into a attractive and competitive competition at all levels and countries. I hate this excuse of footballers earning so much as they have a short career, they can get more work after football most people change career paths during their lives! Even with max salary in each league most players would retire a damn lot better off than normal people and football clubs would be protected from over expenditure, fans treated to more competitive football in all leagues!

Absolutely. Just as well we got promoted in 2019 when spending twice our Turnover as we haven't found a James Maddison every year.

[Badger 2,405]

[cornish sam 947]

HMRC sought a winding up petition from bury for only £277k, Derby owe them £30m! This is sending out the signal that some clubs are too big to fail which will essentially give those clubs a carte blanche to ignore ffp and any fiscal responsibility in their approach. Derby have had a whole season in administration to not get bought, there is obviously something very rotten there, they now need to be taken into the woods and shot.

[Badger 2,405]

23 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

HMRC sought a winding up petition from bury for only £277k, Derby owe them £30m! This is sending out the signal that some clubs are too big to fail which will essentially give those clubs a carte blanche to ignore ffp and any fiscal responsibility in their approach. Derby have had a whole season in administration to not get bought, there is obviously something very rotten there, they now need to be taken into the woods and shot.

It will be interesting to see if the HMRC agreed to "take a haircut" as well. There was talk about them writing off some of the debt - but it could just be rumour?

[Google Bot 3,259]

5 minutes ago, Badger said:

It will be interesting to see if the HMRC agreed to "take a haircut" as well. There was talk about them writing off some of the debt - but it could just be rumour?

I guess the question is whether they get more money by writing some of the debt off AND getting paid, than if they watch Derby go into liquidation?

If millions get written off it really is a **** take in regards to the Bury situation.  I get that it's a game of percentages, but absolutes are absolutes.

[The Raptor 1,199]

So they sold the ground at a highly inflated price to avoid ffp regulations. And now they're moaning that the same guy won't sell it back to them on the cheap? You really couldn't make.it up.

Let them go under. As someone said bury went under for much less. If clubs keep getting bailed out they'll keep pushing their luck.

[astro 358]

32 minutes ago, The Raptor said:

So they sold the ground at a highly inflated price to avoid ffp regulations. And now they're moaning that the same guy won't sell it back to them on the cheap? You really couldn't make.it up.

Let them go under. As someone said bury went under for much less. If clubs keep getting bailed out they'll keep pushing their luck.

That’s not really fair on their fans though is it?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

7 minutes ago, astro said:

That’s not really fair on their fans though is it?

This is it. Its always the fans who suffer. Yes, we all want our clubs to spend on good players but we can't all do that and there is limited scope for success.

For instance, Bury had a stand named after the Neville's father. Its not my place to tell them what to do with their money but you would have thought they might have helped out Bury.

Maybe long term, more clubs will go under. If there is not any substance behind each club then it may not be worth saving.

Derby have a recent, by that I mean within many fans memory, history and maybe that is why there is more help afforded them. Poor old Bury have little history in the last 100 years so to most they were just a club near Manchester who didn't win anything.

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

21 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

This is it. Its always the fans who suffer. Yes, we all want our clubs to spend on good players but we can't all do that and there is limited scope for success.

For instance, Bury had a stand named after the Neville's father. Its not my place to tell them what to do with their money but you would have thought they might have helped out Bury.

Maybe long term, more clubs will go under. If there is not any substance behind each club then it may not be worth saving.

Derby have a recent, by that I mean within many fans memory, history and maybe that is why there is more help afforded them. Poor old Bury have little history in the last 100 years so to most they were just a club near Manchester who didn't win anything.

Considering that the Nevilles are financially involved with Salford City, I don't think they'd have been allowed to support Bury, would they?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Considering that the Nevilles are financially involved with Salford City, I don't think they'd have been allowed to support Bury, would they?

I was thinking of a loan through a third party just to get them out of hock.