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Ins, Outs, Shake em all abouts - squad movement summer 2022

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I often do a thread like this over the summer so I thought I would do one again. This is sort of to keep track of players coming and going and as such I guess will work in tandem with @Feedthewolf's thread on contractual situations. I think we all like to do a bit of a squad assessment and watch as thinks change and take shape. Position and age is all I am concerned about at this point.

A little key too: Blue players are U23's that have been part of matchday squads in the 2021-22 season, players in purple are returning from loans. Players with (hg) are homegrown. Players in bold have signed a contract this summer and so likely going nowhere - other than perhaps on loan. 

Goalkeepers: Krul(33)(hg), Gunn(26)(hg), McGovern(37), Barden(22)(hg), other players in U23's not listed here.
RB: Aarons(22)(hg), Byram(28, 29 in Sep)(hg), Mumba(20)(hg).
LB: Giannoulis(26), McCallum(21)(hg).
CB: Hanley(30)(hg), Gibson(29)(hg), Zimmermann(29), Omobamidele(19, 20 later this month), Tomkinson(20), Famewo(23)(hg), Bushiri(22),
CM (CM/DM): McLean(30), Lees-Melou(29), Sorensen(24), Gibbs(19), plus promising U23 players like Adshead who are yet to feature. IN: Hayden(27)(hg)
AM/Wing: Rashica(25, 26 this month), Cantwell(24)(hg), Tzolis(20), Placheta(24), Dowell(24)(hg), Hernandez(29), Martin(20, 21 in Sept), Springett(19), Rowe(19), Sinani(25),
Strikers: Pukki(32), Idah(21)(hg), Sargent(22), Hugill(30)(hg), Soto(21, 22 in July). Again, a few strikers in the U23's, Kamara(19) has been in training videos and I think match day squads. Others have been out on loan and are yet to show if they are ready for first team action.

Outs: Bushiri(Hibernian, undisclosed), Dennis(MKDons, undisclosed), Drmic(Dynamo Zagreb, free), McAlear(Tranmere, free), Famewo(Shef Weds, Undisclosed), Adshead(Cheltenham, undisclosed),
Loans out: Placheta(Birmingham), 
No longer in plans: Martin

Totals:
GK: 4
RB: 3
LB: 2
CB: 4
CM: 4
AM/W: 8
Str: 4-5
Total: 29-30
Total players born on or after 01/01/2001 (likely new date for 21 rule): 7 (Idah's birthday is Feb which I think slides him in under the line).
Home grown total of players over 21: 10, others are U21 but don't have to be named in the squad. 

Of those, 4 have come through into match day squads this season from the U23's and it is uncertain as to whether they will be seen as first team players this coming season or for them to be sent out on loan to get more first hand experience and games under their belts.

Of the remaining 26-27 players 10 are returning from loan spells away from the club. Of those 10, 5 had been genuine first team players and have a number of appearances under their belts. Those that don't are Famewo, Bushiri, Sinani and Soto. 

I have said before that the most obvious statement to make at this point is that the attacking midfield and winger department needs to be properly sorted out. It could be argued that Cantwell and Dowell prefer more of a No.10 role, so you could put them down as AM's, but that still leaves 8 players, which is probably 4 too many if you consider that Dowell and Cantwell can play there as well. That said, we know that Cantwell could also be on the move so who knows. It's too many, that's for certain.

The next most obvious thing to point out is that those returning from loan will straight away have question marks over them. Bushiri and Famewo have never really been seen to make an impression on the first team and with Tomkinson both younger and having made the bench this season, you'd have to say it is unlikely either will be a part of Smith's plans, though in this game, anything is possible. 

Cantwell continues to be a conundrum. Clear the air talks perhaps? Sign a new deal or go - would be the most obvious course of action should we look to get any funds in for him. It might be crunch time for Martin as well, is he good enough? Will he be used so that Rowe and Springett can go and get some experience. What of Sinani?

Then you have Soto and Hugill - will either of those do enough to stay? Hernandez too. We'll have to see. A squad of 30 is really too much, even with youngsters in that number. It makes me suspect that we'll see some of those go out on loan and we'll have some trimming to see even with that. Especially if we are to bring players Smith wants into the fold.

Edited by chicken
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We have quite high number of players who are out of contract next summer:

Cantwell, Pukki, McLean, Dowell, Byram, Hugill, Hernandez, Zimmermann, McGovern, Sinani, Martin, Soto, Famewo, Bushiri

Would imagine the younger ones who have been out on loan will probably try and get permanent moves away this summer whilst they still get a small fee for them as they probably won't get much of a look in this season unless they really impress in pre season.

Think they will look at new contracts for Pukki, McLean, Dowell & Byram. Michael Bailey was saying there are some new player contracts done that havent been announced yet.

Cantwell will probably be sold whilst they can stil get a few million for him.

Wouldn't be suprised to see Hernandez & Hugill moved on for fees around £1m.

Mcgovern, Zimmermann will be around the squad this season before being let go next summer on frees.

Personally think Mumba needs a full season out on loan to league 1 where he will play week in week out at full back.

And I'm not convinced Rowe and Springett will be starters in the championship. 

Still alot to be decided depending on interest as it appears Pukki, Krul, Aarons, Hanley & Rashica may get some suitors and Tzolis close to going out either on loan or permanent 

 

 

Edited by Move Klose
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I hadn’t realised Hanley is actually older than Zimmerman, yet everyone talks about Zimbo like he’s past it.

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Just now, Nuff Said said:

I hadn’t realised Hanley is actually older than Zimmerman, yet everyone talks about Zimbo like he’s past it.

He moves like he's 10 years older than Hanley

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I’m gobsmacked that Dowell is only 24 - I thought he was at least 30! 

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Great post as a base document for the current squad.

In our last visit to the Championship some were touting Josh Martin as the new Todd Cantwell. It will be interesting if he figures at all as he's a good little player but suspect defensively. Another loan probably.

We're incredibly bloated on 'wingers' and that excludes Sargent who seems to be Smith's preferred right winger. CM looks threadbare, very worrying.

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1 hour ago, Move Klose said:

We have quite high number of players who are out of contract next summer:

Cantwell, Pukki, McLean, Dowell, Byram, Hugill, Hernandez, Zimmermann, McGovern, Sinani, Martin, Soto, Famewo, Bushiri

Would imagine the younger ones who have been out on loan will probably try and get permanent moves away this summer whilst they still get a small fee for them as they probably won't get much of a look in this season unless they really impress in pre season.

Think they will look at new contracts for Pukki, McLean, Dowell & Byram. Michael Bailey was saying there are some new player contracts done that havent been announced yet.

Cantwell will probably be sold whilst they can stil get a few million for him.

Wouldn't be suprised to see Hernandez & Hugill moved on for fees around £1m.

Mcgovern, Zimmermann will be around the squad this season before being let go next summer on frees.

Personally think Mumba needs a full season out on loan to league 1 where he will play week in week out at full back.

And I'm not convinced Rowe and Springett will be starters in the championship. 

Still alot to be decided depending on interest as it appears Pukki, Krul, Aarons, Hanley & Rashica may get some suitors and Tzolis close to going out either on loan or permanent 

 

 

Think this is spot on, only 4 that need to be kept based on current evidence.

Getting Pukki to see out his career here is paramount in my opinion, offers stability and more time for us to find a replacement.

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I think we need to get rid of some of our wingers - we have way too many in our squad

Here’s my views on the squad:

GK: Think it will be the same trio as before, possibly with Krul and Gunn swapping in the pecking order. With McGovern entering the final year of his contract, I think Barden will be sent out on loan 

FB: Think Aarons will go. Sorensen has played in LB for us in the past, and Gibson is also supposed to be able to play LB

CB: Need to strengthen in that position, although Sorensen can play there if needed. I think Tomkinson will be sent out on loan

DM: Another position we need to strengthen in. Lees-Melou and McLean can also play AM

AM/WG: We have far too many. I think some of the younger ones will be sent out on loan. Placheta has two years left and although last summer I still had belief he could come through the ranks, I can’t see that happening now and so I think we should try and sell him, if not send him out on loan with an option to buy. We will have to wait and see what happens with Cantwell and Rashica - I think Todd will go

ST: We need to sign a new one. Can’t see Soto making a first team appearance


Like MK has said we have a lot of players with one year left on their contract. Here’s my thoughts on them:

McGovern: Will be 38 next month, and I think we can be 100% certain he will retire next summer - he’s already looking at becoming a coach. I think he will be kept so Barden can go out on loan next season

Byram: Very injury prone, but PL quality when fit. I think he will be offered a new contract

Zimmerman: Very injury prone, but ok for the Championship. Will probably be kept and released next summer, although might be sold

Bushiri: Was sent to Hibs with an option to buy and has had his loan spells wrecked through injury. Can’t see him making a first team appearance for us, as he couldn’t cut it for Hibs. I think we will try and sell him this summer or send him out on loan for next season

Famewo: Spent two years on loan to Charlton with an option to buy. Quite injury prone and I think we will probably try to sell him, although I think he stands a better chance of making a first team appearance than Bushiri 

McLean: 30, and although he’s not PL quality he’s fine in the Championship. Think he will be offered a new contract. Can’t see him being sold as we need to sign a new DM as it stands

Hernandez: Sent to ‘Boro with an option to buy, although not the case with Birmingham. Although he’s great in the Championship I he will be sold whilst we can still get a few million for him

Cantwell: There are rumours that his poor performance was down to Gilmour taking his girlfriend, causing Cantwell to fall out and refuse to train with him. Whether this is true I do not know. I think he will be sold

Sinani: I was surprised that Huddersfield didn’t take the option to buy. May get sold but considering Smith wants to have a look at him in pre-season I think he will be offered a new contract, as he can clearly cut it in the Championship 

Martin: Sent to MK Dons with an option to buy, although not the case with Doncaster. Made a few appearances in the Championship for us, scoring once. May be sold but wouldn’t be surprised to see him offered a new contract as I believe Smith is also interested to have a look at him in pre-season

Dowell: Will be offered a new contract - very good in the Championship 

Hugill: Sent to WBA with an option to buy, although not the case with Cardiff. Not sure what will happen with him. 30 and although he’s not first choice, is ok in the Championship - did well for us when Pukki and Idah were both out injured in our last promotion season. May get sold, but considering we already need to strengthen in that position I think he might get offered a new contract

Pukki: 32 and PL quality. Will be offered a new contract, as we already need to strengthen in that position and can’t afford to lose him

Soto: Sent to Porto B with an option to buy, although not the case with Livingston. Although we need to strengthen in that position I think he will either be sold or sent out on loan, as I can’t see him making a first team appearance for us as he couldn’t cut it for either loan team

 

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13 minutes ago, HazzaJet said:

I think we need to get rid of some of our wingers - we have way too many in our squad

Here’s my views on the squad:

GK: Think it will be the same trio as before, possibly with Krul and Gunn swapping in the pecking order. With McGovern entering the final year of his contract, I think Barden will be sent out on loan 

FB: Think Aarons will go. Sorensen has played in LB for us in the past, and Gibson is also supposed to be able to play LB

CB: Need to strengthen in that position, although Sorensen can play there if needed. I think Tomkinson will be sent out on loan

DM: Another position we need to strengthen in. Lees-Melou and McLean can also play AM

AM/WG: We have far too many. I think some of the younger ones will be sent out on loan. Placheta has two years left and although last summer I still had belief he could come through the ranks, I can’t see that happening now and so I think we should try and sell him, if not send him out on loan with an option to buy. We will have to wait and see what happens with Cantwell and Rashica - I think Todd will go

ST: We need to sign a new one. Can’t see Soto making a first team appearance


Like MK has said we have a lot of players with one year left on their contract. Here’s my thoughts on them:

McGovern: Will be 38 next month, and I think we can be 100% certain he will retire next summer - he’s already looking at becoming a coach. I think he will be kept so Barden can go out on loan next season

Byram: Very injury prone, but PL quality when fit. I think he will be offered a new contract

Zimmerman: Very injury prone, but ok for the Championship. Will probably be kept and released next summer, although might be sold

Bushiri: Was sent to Hibs with an option to buy and has had his loan spells wrecked through injury. Can’t see him making a first team appearance for us, as he couldn’t cut it for Hibs. I think we will try and sell him this summer or send him out on loan for next season

Famewo: Spent two years on loan to Charlton with an option to buy. Quite injury prone and I think we will probably try to sell him, although I think he stands a better chance of making a first team appearance than Bushiri 

McLean: 30, and although he’s not PL quality he’s fine in the Championship. Think he will be offered a new contract. Can’t see him being sold as we need to sign a new DM as it stands

Hernandez: Sent to ‘Boro with an option to buy, although not the case with Birmingham. Although he’s great in the Championship I he will be sold whilst we can still get a few million for him

Cantwell: There are rumours that his poor performance was down to Gilmour taking his girlfriend, causing Cantwell to fall out and refuse to train with him. Whether this is true I do not know. I think he will be sold

Sinani: I was surprised that Huddersfield didn’t take the option to buy. May get sold but considering Smith wants to have a look at him in pre-season I think he will be offered a new contract, as he can clearly cut it in the Championship 

Martin: Sent to MK Dons with an option to buy, although not the case with Doncaster. Made a few appearances in the Championship for us, scoring once. May be sold but wouldn’t be surprised to see him offered a new contract as I believe Smith is also interested to have a look at him in pre-season

Dowell: Will be offered a new contract - very good in the Championship 

Hugill: Sent to WBA with an option to buy, although not the case with Cardiff. Not sure what will happen with him. 30 and although he’s not first choice, is ok in the Championship - did well for us when Pukki and Idah were both out injured in our last promotion season. May get sold, but considering we already need to strengthen in that position I think he might get offered a new contract

Pukki: 32 and PL quality. Will be offered a new contract, as we already need to strengthen in that position and can’t afford to lose him

Soto: Sent to Porto B with an option to buy, although not the case with Livingston. Although we need to strengthen in that position I think he will either be sold or sent out on loan, as I can’t see him making a first team appearance for us as he couldn’t cut it for either loan team

 

It's not a matter of having too many wingers, we have wingers who are either too raw and untested or not good enough.

Rowe and Springett are they starters at this level, probably not.

Hernandez and Placheta nowhere near good enough.

Martin will probably be sold. 

Tzolis is on his way.

Rashica wants to move away but would easily breeze through this division if he stayed.

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1 hour ago, HazzaJet said:

I think we need to get rid of some of our wingers - we have way too many in our squad

Here’s my views on the squad:

GK: Think it will be the same trio as before, possibly with Krul and Gunn swapping in the pecking order. With McGovern entering the final year of his contract, I think Barden will be sent out on loan 

FB: Think Aarons will go. Sorensen has played in LB for us in the past, and Gibson is also supposed to be able to play LB

CB: Need to strengthen in that position, although Sorensen can play there if needed. I think Tomkinson will be sent out on loan

DM: Another position we need to strengthen in. Lees-Melou and McLean can also play AM

AM/WG: We have far too many. I think some of the younger ones will be sent out on loan. Placheta has two years left and although last summer I still had belief he could come through the ranks, I can’t see that happening now and so I think we should try and sell him, if not send him out on loan with an option to buy. We will have to wait and see what happens with Cantwell and Rashica - I think Todd will go

ST: We need to sign a new one. Can’t see Soto making a first team appearance


Like MK has said we have a lot of players with one year left on their contract. Here’s my thoughts on them:

McGovern: Will be 38 next month, and I think we can be 100% certain he will retire next summer - he’s already looking at becoming a coach. I think he will be kept so Barden can go out on loan next season

Byram: Very injury prone, but PL quality when fit. I think he will be offered a new contract

Zimmerman: Very injury prone, but ok for the Championship. Will probably be kept and released next summer, although might be sold

Bushiri: Was sent to Hibs with an option to buy and has had his loan spells wrecked through injury. Can’t see him making a first team appearance for us, as he couldn’t cut it for Hibs. I think we will try and sell him this summer or send him out on loan for next season

Famewo: Spent two years on loan to Charlton with an option to buy. Quite injury prone and I think we will probably try to sell him, although I think he stands a better chance of making a first team appearance than Bushiri 

McLean: 30, and although he’s not PL quality he’s fine in the Championship. Think he will be offered a new contract. Can’t see him being sold as we need to sign a new DM as it stands

Hernandez: Sent to ‘Boro with an option to buy, although not the case with Birmingham. Although he’s great in the Championship I he will be sold whilst we can still get a few million for him

Cantwell: There are rumours that his poor performance was down to Gilmour taking his girlfriend, causing Cantwell to fall out and refuse to train with him. Whether this is true I do not know. I think he will be sold

Sinani: I was surprised that Huddersfield didn’t take the option to buy. May get sold but considering Smith wants to have a look at him in pre-season I think he will be offered a new contract, as he can clearly cut it in the Championship 

Martin: Sent to MK Dons with an option to buy, although not the case with Doncaster. Made a few appearances in the Championship for us, scoring once. May be sold but wouldn’t be surprised to see him offered a new contract as I believe Smith is also interested to have a look at him in pre-season

Dowell: Will be offered a new contract - very good in the Championship 

Hugill: Sent to WBA with an option to buy, although not the case with Cardiff. Not sure what will happen with him. 30 and although he’s not first choice, is ok in the Championship - did well for us when Pukki and Idah were both out injured in our last promotion season. May get sold, but considering we already need to strengthen in that position I think he might get offered a new contract

Pukki: 32 and PL quality. Will be offered a new contract, as we already need to strengthen in that position and can’t afford to lose him

Soto: Sent to Porto B with an option to buy, although not the case with Livingston. Although we need to strengthen in that position I think he will either be sold or sent out on loan, as I can’t see him making a first team appearance for us as he couldn’t cut it for either loan team

 

I thought Cantwell and Gilmour are both Gays 🤣🤣

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I am expecting a busy summer, Rashica and Aarons look likely to leave (possibly more), yet these are two key players, if Rashica goes we have wingers but are any capable of winning us a lot of games?  I am not sure.

 

These issues come on top of our balsa wood centre midfield problem.  

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1 hour ago, Move Klose said:

It's not a matter of having too many wingers, we have wingers who are either too raw and untested or not good enough.

Rowe and Springett are they starters at this level, probably not.

Hernandez and Placheta nowhere near good enough.

Martin will probably be sold. 

Tzolis is on his way.

Rashica wants to move away but would easily breeze through this division if he stayed.

I would agree that Hernandez, whilst well liked, will be sold. I just fail to see what Placheta, has or will contribute. I actually think Sinani has proved he's good enough at EFL level and offers more as a striker, wide AM than Placheta?

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4 hours ago, chicken said:

I often do a thread like this over the summer so I thought I would do one again. This is sort of to keep track of players coming and going and as such I guess will work in tandem with @Feedthewolf's thread on contractual situations. I think we all like to do a bit of a squad assessment and watch as thinks change and take shape. Position and age is all I am concerned about at this point.

A little key too: Blue players are U23's that have been part of matchday squads in the 2021-22 season, players in purple are returning from loans.

Goalkeepers: Krul(33), Gunn(26), McGovern(37), Barden(22), other players in U23's not listed here.
RB: Aarons(22), Byram(28, 29 in Sep), Mumba(20).
LB: Giannoulis(26), McCallum(21).
CB: Hanley(30), Gibson(29), Zimmermann(29), Omobamidele(19, 20 later this month), Tomkinson(20), Famewo(23), Bushiri(22),
CM (CM/DM): McLean(30), Lees-Melou(29), Sorensen(24), Gibbs(19), plus promising U23 players like Adshead who are yet to feature.
AM/Wing: Rashica(25, 26 this month), Cantwell(24), Tzolis(20), Placheta(24), Dowell(24), Hernandez(29), Martin(20, 21 in Sept), Springett(19), Rowe(19), Sinani(25),
Strikers: Pukki(32), Idah(21), Sargent(22), Hugill(30), Soto(21, 22 in July). Again, a few strikers in the U23's, Kamara(19) has been in training videos and I think match day squads. Others have been out on loan and are yet to show if they are ready for first team action.

Totals:
GK: 3
RB: 3
LB: 2
CB: 4
CM: 4
AM/W: 10
Str: 4-5
Total: 30-31 players (inc Soto)

Of those, 4 have come through into match day squads this season from the U23's and it is uncertain as to whether they will be seen as first team players this coming season or for them to be sent out on loan to get more first hand experience and games under their belts.

Of the remaining 26-27 players 10 are returning from loan spells away from the club. Of those 10, 5 had been genuine first team players and have a number of appearances under their belts. Those that don't are Famewo, Bushiri, Sinani and Soto. 

I have said before that the most obvious statement to make at this point is that the attacking midfield and winger department needs to be properly sorted out. It could be argued that Cantwell and Dowell prefer more of a No.10 role, so you could put them down as AM's, but that still leaves 8 players, which is probably 4 too many if you consider that Dowell and Cantwell can play there as well. That said, we know that Cantwell could also be on the move so who knows. It's too many, that's for certain.

The next most obvious thing to point out is that those returning from loan will straight away have question marks over them. Bushiri and Famewo have never really been seen to make an impression on the first team and with Tomkinson both younger and having made the bench this season, you'd have to say it is unlikely either will be a part of Smith's plans, though in this game, anything is possible. 

Cantwell continues to be a conundrum. Clear the air talks perhaps? Sign a new deal or go - would be the most obvious course of action should we look to get any funds in for him. It might be crunch time for Martin as well, is he good enough? Will he be used so that Rowe and Springett can go and get some experience. What of Sinani?

Then you have Soto and Hugill - will either of those do enough to stay? Hernandez too. We'll have to see. A squad of 30 is really too much, even with youngsters in that number. It makes me suspect that we'll see some of those go out on loan and we'll have some trimming to see even with that. Especially if we are to bring players Smith wants into the fold.

For my lazy **** benefit, can you summarise the squad constraints in the Chumps?  Then this might assist what level of churn has to be made in the squad even before we see any incoming.

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2 hours ago, Move Klose said:

It's not a matter of having too many wingers, we have wingers who are either too raw and untested or not good enough.

Rowe and Springett are they starters at this level, probably not.

Hernandez and Placheta nowhere near good enough.

Martin will probably be sold. 

Tzolis is on his way.

Rashica wants to move away but would easily breeze through this division if he stayed.

I’m definitely yet to be convinced by Rashica - didn’t seem to have either the pace or trickery to take on PL defenders but perhaps would manage better in the Champs.  I’d be interested to see if and PL sides come sniffing for him. 

The problem for me is that we seem to buy and play wingers but with a lone striker in Pukki who isn’t really looking for crosses into the box…possibly just as well as their delivery is often rather suspect!

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33 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

For my lazy **** benefit, can you summarise the squad constraints in the Chumps?  Then this might assist what level of churn has to be made in the squad even before we see any incoming.

This was from 2020-21, can't find any for last season on my brief glance:
image.png.9c648a35c7bc3a71c62b52c3427a5450.png
Link to the page this is from is here.

Homegrown wise we have plenty. Krul, Gunn, Hanley, Gibson, Byram, Dowell, Omobamidele and Idah - who are all likely to be around next season still. Then you have others who still could be like McCallum, Mumba, Cantwell and a number of the other youngsters. Haven't gone through the ages enough yet to see how that works out.

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5 hours ago, Move Klose said:

We have quite high number of players who are out of contract next summer:

Cantwell, Pukki, McLean, Dowell, Byram, Hugill, Hernandez, Zimmermann, McGovern, Sinani, Martin, Soto, Famewo, Bushiri

Would imagine the younger ones who have been out on loan will probably try and get permanent moves away this summer whilst they still get a small fee for them as they probably won't get much of a look in this season unless they really impress in pre season.

Think they will look at new contracts for Pukki, McLean, Dowell & Byram. Michael Bailey was saying there are some new player contracts done that havent been announced yet.

Cantwell will probably be sold whilst they can stil get a few million for him.

Wouldn't be suprised to see Hernandez & Hugill moved on for fees around £1m.

Mcgovern, Zimmermann will be around the squad this season before being let go next summer on frees.

Personally think Mumba needs a full season out on loan to league 1 where he will play week in week out at full back.

And I'm not convinced Rowe and Springett will be starters in the championship. 

Still alot to be decided depending on interest as it appears Pukki, Krul, Aarons, Hanley & Rashica may get some suitors and Tzolis close to going out either on loan or permanent 

 

 

From listening to Peterboros chairman talk about why he’s not going to spend £500k on bringing Sven benda back permanently, I’d suggest that most of the bottom half of the champs/top of league 1 won’t spend a penny in fees. Rather scuppers the idea we’d get actual money for Onel or Hugill. Probably better off just keeping them as squad players

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10 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

I’m definitely yet to be convinced by Rashica - didn’t seem to have either the pace or trickery to take on PL defenders but perhaps would manage better in the Champs.  I’d be interested to see if and PL sides come sniffing for him. 

The problem for me is that we seem to buy and play wingers but with a lone striker in Pukki who isn’t really looking for crosses into the box…possibly just as well as their delivery is often rather suspect!

In the matches immediately before his injury Adam Idah at last showed what a benefit he could be for us with Teemu playing off him. I believe that will be our strike force, where good crosses will be vital.

Other than Krul, Gunn, Handley, Pukki and especially Idah, Omobamidele and the youngsters who have broken through this season, I don't mind which of the rest move on, providing the price was right.

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10 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

From listening to Peterboros chairman talk about why he’s not going to spend £500k on bringing Sven benda back permanently, I’d suggest that most of the bottom half of the champs/top of league 1 won’t spend a penny in fees. Rather scuppers the idea we’d get actual money for Onel or Hugill. Probably better off just keeping them as squad players

In my opinion this raises a very valid point. The chams/L1 clubs that would be attracted to sign our 'unwanted' players are unlikely to have the cash to pay what would be a 'reasonable fee'. Maybe this only leaves an out on loan option to reduce wages? In which case our ability to make incoming transfers is hampered - external investment becomes more attractive

 

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4 minutes ago, BurwellCanary said:

In my opinion this raises a very valid point. The chams/L1 clubs that would be attracted to sign our 'unwanted' players are unlikely to have the cash to pay what would be a 'reasonable fee'. Maybe this only leaves an out on loan option to reduce wages? In which case our ability to make incoming transfers is hampered - external investment becomes more attractive

 

Yeah the **** fell out of the transfer market at this level due to covid and it likely won't bounce back for a while. Hence why we struggled to shift solid Championship level players like Trybull. 

 

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46 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yeah the **** fell out of the transfer market at this level due to covid and it likely won't bounce back for a while. Hence why we struggled to shift solid Championship level players like Trybull. 

 

The loss of value for non premiership players must have really hit our plans.  It becomes a real players market where they can ask for better wages, but no certainty.

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4 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

The loss of value for non premiership players must have really hit our plans.  It becomes a real players market where they can ask for better wages, but no certainty.

Yeah I think it hurts the model in some ways. It isn't just about being able to sell players like Godfrey and Aarons, it is also about selling players like Onel, Trybull or similar for £2-3m here and there and that just doesn't happen at the moment, so we're in a cycle of endlessly loaning them out or paying up contracts. 

I look at McCallum as an example- if for whatever reason we decide he isn't going to make it here then can we move him on for a profit or do we just have to keep sending him on loan and try and make money back that way.

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In my opinion you need a depth like this in the championship. It’s good to see the age of the players. Some of them a real shock. I can see 4-5 definitely going but they need to be replaced to keep a good depth……good thread 👍🏻

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19 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yeah I think it hurts the model in some ways. It isn't just about being able to sell players like Godfrey and Aarons, it is also about selling players like Onel, Trybull or similar for £2-3m here and there and that just doesn't happen at the moment, so we're in a cycle of endlessly loaning them out or paying up contracts. 

I look at McCallum as an example- if for whatever reason we decide he isn't going to make it here then can we move him on for a profit or do we just have to keep sending him on loan and try and make money back that way.

Absolutely - which has the knock on of transfers at a realistic price becoming a thing of the past in some circumstances and players on wages being the only option. This would stop that cash flow that the transfers rely on and potentially kill the lower league clubs that rely on cashing in and would stop talent coming through. Of course it wouldnt matter to the big PL clubs who have the funding and pick of anyone they wanted. Very concerning on a number of levels

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12 hours ago, chicken said:

This was from 2020-21, can't find any for last season on my brief glance:
image.png.9c648a35c7bc3a71c62b52c3427a5450.png
Link to the page this is from is here.

Homegrown wise we have plenty. Krul, Gunn, Hanley, Gibson, Byram, Dowell, Omobamidele and Idah - who are all likely to be around next season still. Then you have others who still could be like McCallum, Mumba, Cantwell and a number of the other youngsters. Haven't gone through the ages enough yet to see how that works out.

So, by my reckoning those in bold below contribute to the 25, except those that are in bold italics are "Home Grown".

A little key too: Blue players are U23's that have been part of matchday squads in the 2021-22 season, players in purple are returning from loans.

Goalkeepers: Krul(33), Gunn(26), McGovern(37), Barden(22), other players in U23's not listed here.
RB: Aarons(22), Byram(28, 29 in Sep), Mumba(20).
LB: Giannoulis(26), McCallum(21).
CB: Hanley(30), Gibson(29), Zimmermann(29), Omobamidele(19, 20 later this month), Tomkinson(20), Famewo(23), Bushiri(22),
CM (CM/DM): McLean(30), Lees-Melou(29), Sorensen(24), Gibbs(19), plus promising U23 players like Adshead who are yet to feature.
AM/Wing: Rashica(25, 26 this month), Cantwell(24), Tzolis(20), Placheta(24), Dowell(24), Hernandez(29), Martin(20, 21 in Sept), Springett(19), Rowe(19), Sinani(25),
Strikers: Pukki(32), Idah(21), Sargent(22), Hugill(30), Soto(21, 22 in July). Again, a few strikers in the U23's, Kamara(19) has been in training videos and I think match day squads. Others have been out on loan and are yet to show if they are ready for first team action.

So by my reckoning 27 contribute to the maximum, of which 13 are homegrown, potentially not as bloated as I thought, but with 10 U21's scope for filling the bench at all times too.  At least as it stands 2 of the above will miss out on being named in the squad all things being equal and at least 3 will miss out to allow for one new over 21 to come in.  Homegrown does not seem to be a major issue, although if at least 3 go who are all homegrown, the pressure then increases on the next incoming to be home grown too!  

So it would seem likely that at least 3 of the named squad will be moved on / released.  I actually previously thought a net 5 outflow would result, maybe that is now only a net 2.  A fairly harsh first guess:

  • Outs: Krul, McGovern, Aarons, Cantwell, Famewo, Bushiri, Hugill.
  • Ins: one GK, one CB, one CDM, one CAM, one striker, of which one minimum has to be home grown.

Let the games begin.

 

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3 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

So, by my reckoning those in bold below contribute to the 25, except those that are in bold italics are "Home Grown".

A little key too: Blue players are U23's that have been part of matchday squads in the 2021-22 season, players in purple are returning from loans.

Goalkeepers: Krul(33), Gunn(26), McGovern(37), Barden(22), other players in U23's not listed here.
RB: Aarons(22), Byram(28, 29 in Sep), Mumba(20).
LB: Giannoulis(26), McCallum(21).
CB: Hanley(30), Gibson(29), Zimmermann(29), Omobamidele(19, 20 later this month), Tomkinson(20), Famewo(23), Bushiri(22),
CM (CM/DM): McLean(30), Lees-Melou(29), Sorensen(24), Gibbs(19), plus promising U23 players like Adshead who are yet to feature.
AM/Wing: Rashica(25, 26 this month), Cantwell(24), Tzolis(20), Placheta(24), Dowell(24), Hernandez(29), Martin(20, 21 in Sept), Springett(19), Rowe(19), Sinani(25),
Strikers: Pukki(32), Idah(21), Sargent(22), Hugill(30), Soto(21, 22 in July). Again, a few strikers in the U23's, Kamara(19) has been in training videos and I think match day squads. Others have been out on loan and are yet to show if they are ready for first team action.

So by my reckoning 27 contribute to the maximum, of which 13 are homegrown, potentially not as bloated as I thought, but with 10 U21's scope for filling the bench at all times too.  At least as it stands 2 of the above will miss out on being named in the squad all things being equal and at least 3 will miss out to allow for one new over 21 to come in.  Homegrown does not seem to be a major issue, although if at least 3 go who are all homegrown, the pressure then increases on the next incoming to be home grown too!  

So it would seem likely that at least 3 of the named squad will be moved on / released.  I actually previously thought a net 5 outflow would result, maybe that is now only a net 2.  A fairly harsh first guess:

  • Outs: Krul, McGovern, Aarons, Cantwell, Famewo, Bushiri, Hugill.
  • Ins: one GK, one CB, one CDM, one CAM, one striker, of which one minimum has to be home grown.

Let the games begin.

 

I think the youngsters are the unknown quantity here.

If we think Rowe, Springett and Martin can contribute this season then suddenly you can probably sell Rashica, Tzolis and Cantwell without much concern.

Also, I can't see McGovern leaving. He's got a year on his contract, he's happy being 3rd choice, good to have around the dressing room and nobody is going to pay us for him. I assume he retires and moves into coaching after this season. If Krul goes the question of a replacement likely hinges on how we feel about Barden but I can see an argument for snapping up an experienced keeper on a free to back up Gunn.

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2 hours ago, king canary said:

Yeah the **** fell out of the transfer market at this level due to covid and it likely won't bounce back for a while. Hence why we struggled to shift solid Championship level players like Trybull. 

 

Us being relegated weirdly makes that easier though as they will be on less wages now.

Regarding Onel and Hugill though, I’d honestly keep them around. They know the club, are proven at this level and both stitch gaps in the squad we don’t really have much depth in. Onel getting time at full back/wing back can only help as well. Gotta be better than resorting to bringing PP on anyway.

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1 minute ago, Tetteys Jig said:

Us being relegated weirdly makes that easier though as they will be on less wages now.

Regarding Onel and Hugill though, I’d honestly keep them around. They know the club, are proven at this level and both stitch gaps in the squad we don’t really have much depth in. Onel getting time at full back/wing back can only help as well. Gotta be better than resorting to bringing PP on anyway.

I think its difficult to call due to all the moving pieces. 

Are we going to be playing 3 at the back more often? If so we don't need to go out and spend big on a winger as we won't be using them so much. Will Cantwell be rehabilitated? If so then competition increases out wide and maybe there isn't room for Onel. As above, do we think Springett and Rowe are ready for regular game time? 

With Hugill, the formation question is key again- if we're likely going to play two up top with a back 3 then we might need him for depth. But also where do we see Sargent? Is he going to be more of a striker now or stay out wide? If he's up top then Hugill is a bit redundant as we'd have three players who all fit the 'target man' mould but only Pukki who is a bit more of a dynamo.

Finding it very difficult to make any predictions about what the squad will look like come August.

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For me, we have severe excess in the wide positions so the bulk of departures will come from there. Looking at our current squad, I could see variations on 3-4-3 becoming our go-to as it would suit a lot of our awkward-to-place players. Tzolis, Rashica could move on and not affect this, but losing Max as a wing back might (then again, this might be the ideal solution for Mumba)

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17 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

For me, we have severe excess in the wide positions so the bulk of departures will come from there. Looking at our current squad, I could see variations on 3-4-3 becoming our go-to as it would suit a lot of our awkward-to-place players. Tzolis, Rashica could move on and not affect this, but losing Max as a wing back might (then again, this might be the ideal solution for Mumba)

If Max does go to Brentford I wonder if there is any chance we move for Canos who has been a decent right wing back for them as his career has gone on? Clearly would have some unfinished business and has played under Smith before.

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I'd convert Sargent to a CDM, like Man U did with Fellaini. He's got energy, aerial ability, reasonable technique and he works hard.

He may well be good enough up front to get a few in the Champs but isn't Prem quality, so I'd look at him there next season.

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