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Pete Raven

EXCLUSIVE: US tycoons in Norwich City investment talks

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3 hours ago, GMF said:

The irony is, should this deal happen, with the purchasers subsequently making an offer to all existing shareholders at greater than £25 a share, the mood music would probably change.

@GMF-at £25 per share, what does that value club at and does that even cover the value of the assets?

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20 minutes ago, BigFish said:

@GMF-at £25 per share, what does that value club at and does that even cover the value of the assets?

I haven’t undertaken any valuations of the club, so I can’t answer.
 

I have seen others attempting to do so, looking at the assets in the context of the total number of shares, but I’ve not seen any others that also have regards to the club’s liabilities! 

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I was gifted by my father, a life long supporter, 20 ordinary shares and 5 preference B shares at the time of the ITV digital collapse. I’ve been v grateful for a £22.50 dividend each year. Not to be sniffed at in these days of rising costs. 

If only existing shares are bought by someone wishing to become the major shareholder rather than purchasing new shares, is it only the ordinary shares that are purchased or both? - the ordinary and preference shares. There are also some preference A shares that I don’t have any of. What happens with these as well? 

Edited by Mutley

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15 minutes ago, Mutley said:

I was gifted by my father, a life long supporter, 20 ordinary shares and 5 preference B shares at the time of the ITV digital collapse. I’ve been v grateful for a £22.50 dividend each year. Not to be sniffed at in these days of rising costs. 

If only existing shares are bought by someone wishing to become the major shareholder rather than purchasing new shares, is it only the ordinary shares that are purchased or both? - the ordinary and preference shares. There are also some preference A shares that I don’t have any of. What happens with these as well? 

Someone could buy preference shares as well, but it is the ordinary shares that confer voting rights and so control the club. S&J may or may not have preference shares, I cannot remember,  but their majority ownership comes from possessing 53 per cent of the ordinaries.

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20 minutes ago, Mutley said:

I was gifted by my father, a life long supporter, 20 ordinary shares and 5 preference B shares at the time of the ITV digital collapse. I’ve been v grateful for a £22.50 dividend each year. Not to be sniffed at in these days of rising costs. 

If only existing shares are bought by someone wishing to become the major shareholder rather than purchasing new shares, is it only the ordinary shares that are purchased or both? - the ordinary and preference shares. There are also some preference A shares that I don’t have any of. What happens with these as well? 

A-preference shares pay an annual dividend, but do not carry any right of redemption.

The B-preference shares, which pay a lesser dividend, can be redeemed. However, the redemption window is limited, opening when either the club has been promoted to the Premier League, or following the retention of Premier League status, for the following season.

The redemption option requires notice to the Company Secretary before the 30 September of the same year.

Anyone can sell their ordinary shares at any time, assuming they can find a willing buyer and agree a price between themselves. Details relating to which can either be found on the Club’s website, or the Canaries Trust website.

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3 hours ago, DAVID SEWELL said:

I can probably help here. It's a personal vendetta against somebody from the Trust (possibly dead now), who said or did something he didn't like about thirty years ago.

What on earth are you on about as the Trust did not exist 30 years ago so no you cannot help and good grief who the heck are you on aboiut who is possibly dead ?

Edited by TIL 1010

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3 hours ago, DAVID SEWELL said:

I can probably help here. It's a personal vendetta against somebody from the Trust (possibly dead now)

Says a man who has posted 50 odd times in 4 years and every single post is having a go at TIL 1010 ? 

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I wrote to NIEL DONCASTER long ago asking if I could buy shares in the club he then came back and said I could. I'm now in possession of 10 ordinary shares purchased in 1999  

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51 minutes ago, Diane said:

Says a man who has posted 50 odd times in 4 years and every single post is having a go at TIL 1010 ? 

You tell him Diane! 💪🥊

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3 hours ago, Diane said:

Says a man who has posted 50 odd times in 4 years and every single post is having a go at TIL 1010 ? 

You can't win can you. After all Tilly's complaint is apparently that I post too much.

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6 hours ago, DAVID SEWELL said:

I can probably help here. It's a personal vendetta against somebody from the Trust (possibly dead now), who said or did something he didn't like about thirty years ago.

It certainly seems to be more about historic personalities than current professional principles. if the Club signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the Trust in 2018, I must reasonably assume that any of these grudges have been forgotten about from the Club's perspective.

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10 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Can I ask how much of that particular axe do you have left to grind?

Asking for a friend! 

I am guessing that friend is Tilly?

If it is Stephan, please tell him that I have proposed donating 250 of my shares to Trust arrangements and details of his intentions would be greatly appreciated.

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5 hours ago, Mutley said:

I was gifted by my father, a life long supporter, 20 ordinary shares and 5 preference B shares at the time of the ITV digital collapse. I’ve been v grateful for a £22.50 dividend each year. Not to be sniffed at in these days of rising costs. 

If only existing shares are bought by someone wishing to become the major shareholder rather than purchasing new shares, is it only the ordinary shares that are purchased or both? - the ordinary and preference shares. There are also some preference A shares that I don’t have any of. What happens with these as well? 

They have been relatively good in recent years. That said I gave up my last tranche in the context of lower risk Bonds absurdly attracting higher returns and the limited opportunities for redemption.

As a result now more than 50 per cent of these are owned by board directors. That could have been another potential solution for any inheritors of significant numbers of ordinary shares who want an income opportunity by giving them a 50:50 split option but no such imagination is forthcoming.

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Only for those that are interested in football finance in general, but there is a potential new twist in the purchase of Sheffield Utd on their thread. He is a US buyer, but I'm sure that Attenasio wouldn't get far if he tried it here.

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7 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Someone could buy preference shares as well, but it is the ordinary shares that confer voting rights and so control the club. S&J may or may not have preference shares, I cannot remember,  but their majority ownership comes from possessing 53 per cent of the ordinaries.

Many thanks PC. 👍

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7 hours ago, GMF said:

A-preference shares pay an annual dividend, but do not carry any right of redemption.

The B-preference shares, which pay a lesser dividend, can be redeemed. However, the redemption window is limited, opening when either the club has been promoted to the Premier League, or following the retention of Premier League status, for the following season.

The redemption option requires notice to the Company Secretary before the 30 September of the same year.

Anyone can sell their ordinary shares at any time, assuming they can find a willing buyer and agree a price between themselves. Details relating to which can either be found on the Club’s website, or the Canaries Trust website.

Many thanks GMF. 👍

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3 hours ago, essex canary said:

It certainly seems to be more about historic personalities than current professional principles. if the Club signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the Trust in 2018, I must reasonably assume that any of these grudges have been forgotten about from the Club's perspective.

What on earth are you on about now because whatever it is you are clueless.

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17 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

What on earth are you on about now because whatever it is you are clueless.

Which part of the English language don't you understand?

To put it another way all this historical cra* that you keep going on about is of no significance whatsoever.

Edited by essex canary

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17 hours ago, Mutley said:

I was gifted by my father, a life long supporter, 20 ordinary shares and 5 preference B shares at the time of the ITV digital collapse. I’ve been v grateful for a £22.50 dividend each year. Not to be sniffed at in these days of rising costs. 

If only existing shares are bought by someone wishing to become the major shareholder rather than purchasing new shares, is it only the ordinary shares that are purchased or both? - the ordinary and preference shares. There are also some preference A shares that I don’t have any of. What happens with these as well? 

Mutley, You have £1,000 in the Club supporting it"s assets and receive £22.50 per year as reward.. Better than a bank will give you. 

The Club has 6,860 similar investors who have put in at least £100 though many claim no reward at all.

In 201819 under its bond scheme, the Club for every £1,000 borrowed the Club paid out £330 reward and gave everyone their money back. Many of those 740 people including some Directors and Executive Team members weren't shareholders.

The first time that **** Dastardly came up with a cunning plan that was actually successful. Some sources say it couldn't be allowed to fail following on from Galway Roast and the odd person acquiring shares at £1 a piece whilst £100 was the going rate.

 

 

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11 hours ago, essex canary said:

Which part of the English language don't you understand?

To put it another way all this historical cra* that you keep going on about is of no significance whatsoever.

The historical crap that you refer to gave an insight into your lack of knowledge surrounding what you have been banging on about for page after page on here.

I note you are still banging on about the Bond scheme this morning making reference to it for the hundreth time in recent months. What next the Membership scheme you loathe so much as you haven't mentioned that for a week or two ?

Edited by TIL 1010

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They will turn and walk just like all the others who have dared to step on Delia's toes.

 

(The ones that apparently never existed that is)

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19 minutes ago, Nora's Ghost said:

They will turn and walk just like all the others who have dared to step on Delia's toes.

 

(The ones that apparently never existed that is)

You are beyond help , take a long walk off a short pier. The 'walking away' would have happened by now, as preliminary discussion would have made D&Ms position clear, now maybe a deal can't be done but if it was as you state, then it would have already collapsed. 

Binner.

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2 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

The historical crap that you refer to gave an insight into your lack of knowledge surrounding what you have been banging on about for page after page on here.

I note you are still banging on about the Bond scheme this morning making reference to it for the hundreth time in recent months. What next the Membership scheme you loathe so much as you haven't mentioned that for a week or two ?

I have the impression that you haven't been particularly flattered by the quality of supporter engagement in recent times. Notably the attempts to push it on to vacant posts with £40k salaries. You are quite right about that. I believe you acknowledged my point about the membership schemes very recently.

Who said what to whom many years ago is of no significance. What maybe of some significance is what when on in the brief Steve Stone period of tenure and what has evolved beyond it.  For Example when he signed the Memorandum of Understanding with the Trust, he must have signed it on behalf of the whole football club. True or False? Assuming true, having committed at that point to independent supporter consultation frameworks, why has the Club subsequently opted for a non-independent component in the form of the OSP?

Note the Bond Scheme also happened on Steve Stone's watch and evidence suggested he benefitted from it beyond his disappearance from the Executive Team.

All evidence of lack of cohesion, consistency and joined up thinking in Club administrative matters. Not much different to on the pitch.

 

Edited by essex canary

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On 07/06/2022 at 11:19, PurpleCanary said:

No, it doesn't sound like a good plan. It would involve a great deal of tedious bureaucracy for the Americans and those with only a small number of shares are generally the ones who have them for sentimental reasons and would not want to sell.

Far simpler to approach the nine (as I make) people (including Foulger) or organisations (including Archant) who have 3000 shares or more, totalling around 157,000, and see how many of them would be willing to sell up.

I'm not really following this thread but if the above happened (or any purchase of existing shares), I don't see any benefit to NCFC as the money goes to the selling shareholders.  Why not allot new shares to the Americans so the money goes into the club ?

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1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

You are beyond help , take a long walk off a short pier. The 'walking away' would have happened by now, as preliminary discussion would have made D&Ms position clear, now maybe a deal can't be done but if it was as you state, then it would have already collapsed. 

Binner.

How do you know? Another scenario is The Stowmarket Two could have been 'interested / receptive' upon first tentative approach but may by now be having second thoughts? Neither of us know the current state of play that's definite.

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7 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

How do you know? Another scenario is The Stowmarket Two could have been 'interested / receptive' upon first tentative approach but may by now be having second thoughts? Neither of us know the current state of play that's definite.

What I do know is that Nora's Ghost was just being childish, making stuff up. What I have stated is correct.... It could still go t1ts up, as many deals do, that's business....not necessarily because of Delia's sensitive toes.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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On 08/06/2022 at 12:22, DAVID SEWELL said:

I can probably help here. It's a personal vendetta against somebody from the Trust (possibly dead now), who said or did something he didn't like about thirty years ago.

 

21 hours ago, Diane said:

Says a man who has posted 50 odd times in 4 years and every single post is having a go at TIL 1010 ? 

This ' David Sewell ' character is a strange one Diane.

My guess he/she got nicked by Tilly many moons ago and it's been a festering sore ever since 😀

 

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So (been out of the Country for a bit) what do we think will be the outcome? Genuinely have no idea... Badger? ShefCanary? King Canary?

What do we think is the best outcome?

Honest question, not trying to catch anyone out...

 

Edited by Kenny Foggo

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1 hour ago, It's Character Forming said:

I'm not really following this thread but if the above happened (or any purchase of existing shares), I don't see any benefit to NCFC as the money goes to the selling shareholders.  Why not allot new shares to the Americans so the money goes into the club ?

i don't blame you! There is some really extraneous stuff. The problem, or at least one of them, is that no-one knows publicly what Attanasio's intentions are. He might only want a bit of a minority stake for now, in which case buying existing shares can make sense.

If he buys only a comparitively small number of new shares - say 50,000 - that reduces S&J's share below 50 per cent. they might not want that, as least now, and nor might Attanasio.

Edited by PurpleCanary
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59 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

So (been out of the Country for a bit) what do we think will be the outcome? Genuinely have no idea... Badger? ShefCanary? King Canary?

What do we think is the best outcome?

Honest question, not trying to catch anyone out...

 

My view is pretty similar to Purple's now.  What smoke signals have creeped out through the gaps round the boardroom door are that Attanasio is buying up existing shares that have been offered him by existing Board members (there remains a bit of gossip that this was against the wishes of the majority shareholders, but who knows).  We probably now have to take the statement issued by the club at face value after all (whilst initially thinking that this was not a goer)  So Smith & Jones will retain their majority share for now, whilst Attanasio seems to be acquiring Foulger's shares.  Attanasio will get an agreement to shadow the Board (probably taking up a post on the Board, either himself or maybe one of his sons) for a while before deciding whether to take up a legal option to invest deeper. 

So [unfortunately] initially no big injection of cash to the club, but they will benefit from Attanasio's team experience of running the Brewers as a relatively successful smaller baseball franchise, where the squad and the playing arena have improved significantly since they took charge.  But in a couple of years we will see the handover of control of the club from Smith & Jones to Attanasio if there isn't a fall out during the interim.

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