EXCLUSIVE: US tycoons in Norwich City investment talks

[canarydan23 4,060]

4 minutes ago, Nora's Ghost said:

Along comes another one with a mother fixation.

U OK hun?

[hertfordyellow 460]

8 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Very successful according to the comments on the Brewers forum that was linked here somewhere. 

We also need to remember he's not doing this on his own, another member is worth $115million, and he's involved in business's worth $23 billion. 

Delia, for all I've criticised her ambitions would not allow us to be sold to Burnley style owners. 

The 23 billion is capital, it’s a fund company, I’m not sure why it is significant in this conversation?

They haven’t been successful from what I can see but maybe I don’t understand the leagues.

What happens if we aren’t successful? Do they shrug and say ok no worries or do they get their investment back through other means? I’m not saying we should rule it out but we must go in with open eyes to who we are dealing with. 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

It looks like the Brewers were bought by Attenacio in the early 2000s, and the previous owners were keen on running as little debt as possible so didn't spend too much. He seems to been a man-about-town sort who wears his name tag when out and about so employees know that it's him and he's not terrorising them! He looks like he tries to gradually increase what's spent on the team, and looks like he tries to keep his Milwaukee team well grounded in the community.

The official Why I like Mark Attanasio thread - Milwaukee Brewers Talk - Brewer Fanatic

As for his finance, he founded a company, Crescent, sold a majority take in it for around $330million in 2020 and is running it for five more years. Seems like a pretty savvy businessman.

Brewers' Attanasio strikes a deal to sell majority stake in his investment firm - Milwaukee Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

Going to the Brewers, he's also said he wants to leave the team to his sons.

Mark Attanasio discusses Brewers ownership succession to his sons - Milwaukee Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

Looks, holistically speaking, like a very reasonable match when taking a superficial look at him. I'm more interested in the financing though, but certainly don't mind what I see so far.

[shefcanary 2,385]

25 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

My post was so plausible it seems a couple of posters took it seriously/thought it was genuine! To be serious, I agree about the make-up of the delegation. And I assume if whatever the deal is goes ahead that Attanasio will want a place or two or three on the board.

🤣

What he is doing in Milwaukee is encouraging.  The new soccer complex is a good rehearsal.

[dylanisabaddog 4,867]

30 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Agreed but there's a problem of an ageing Carrow Road, watching football is a habit and I'm a little concerned that we may find there's a problem if families and young people find it hard to get tickets in the next few years 

Spot on. We either need to extend or stop giving discounts to old people. 

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

Perhaps one of our money men on here can dissect this a bit, club seems in a good place though 

 

https://www.forbes.com/teams/milwaukee-brewers/

[dylanisabaddog 4,867]

36 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Burnley example is not relevant, they purchased the club the same way the Glaziers did United by leveraging debt onto the club, not a cat in hells chance Delia and Winnie allow that to happen. 

So again I repeat, the best way for them to make a profit on their buck is success. 

As Smith and Jones aren't looking for a sale it doesn't appear you have to worry about a leveraged buy out. Not yet anyway. But you're still left with the question of why are they interested? The only answer to that is money. 

If NCFC makes a profit do you want that money spent on Norwich City or an American baseball team?

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

41 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

The 23 billion is capital, it’s a fund company, I’m not sure why it is significant in this conversation?

They haven’t been successful from what I can see but maybe I don’t understand the leagues.

What happens if we aren’t successful? Do they shrug and say ok no worries or do they get their investment back through other means? I’m not saying we should rule it out but we must go in with open eyes to who we are dealing with. 

Oh of course I don't disagree. I think they're seen as successful in comparative terms to where they were before I guess in terms of getting to the latter stages of the season. Of course their league structure is very different to ours. A claim on their forum is he is in the top 6 of respected owners (out of 29 I think it was), they seem to be held in high regard. 

I also get the 23billion is not actual net worth on a personal level, but you don't build up these companies to such levels without knowing what you're doing. 

Time will tell of course but the one thing I've never done is claim Delia doesn't have the right intentions, I trust her and Michael to have done due diligence. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Ken Hairy

[Surfer 1,547]

One way to add value to the infrastructure is to turn the Carrow Road site into a multi-sport destination. A multi-use stadium adjacent to the football stadium for ice hockey, basketball and concerts is a pretty common recipe in the US, and the Brewer's owner already is a part owner of Milwaukee's ice hockey team. Then you have the footprint and attendance to make restaurants and retail economical.

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

Just now, dylanisabaddog said:

 

If NCFC makes a profit do you want that money spent on Norwich City or an American baseball team?

If a profit comes via success on the field then who cares? I would suspect they would run the 2 businesses as separate entities though. Like I've already said time will tell and we have to trust the process and that due diligence has been done on this group. 

On paper though it seems a good fit. 

[Badger 2,405]

3 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Not enough information to go, so I thought I would throw some possibilities into the mix to confuse things further.🤓

S&J could buy also buy shares to keep a majority, but that seems highly unlikely.
The American investors could buy preference shares rather than the controlling ordinary shares. Only slightly less unlikely.

The American investors could buy enough new ordinary shares (say around 20,000) at a very high price to give themselves a 29.8 per cent holding. That puts money into the club and just about keeps S&J as majority owners without triggering the 30 per cent rule that would mean they would have to offer to buy out the other 70 per cent, and at that very high price. Still unlikely, not least because that price might be a problem if they went to 30 per cent.

The club doesn't know the difference between a majority holding and the largest single holding. I am tempted to say highly plausible but...😍

The initial purchase of ordinary shares (possibly with a loan attached) would be the appetiser, with the mega-purchase making them owners to come later. Quite likely.

 

It's intriguing isn't it!

Buying Foulger's shares at one price + new equity at a cheaper price (is that allowed) to bring them closer?

Buy some but with option to buy more in the future to achieve majority status - e.g. on promotion?

Loans into with option to turn them equity at pre-agreed price - e.g. on promotion?

Option to buy (at today's value) if we achieve premier league status could be a good deal for them as the value would increase?

I really haven't a clue! 🤣 I'm still struggling to work out how it could be a good deal for them + a good deal for us + raise money + keep D + M as majority shareholders. Way beyond my experience.

I quite like your suggestion that the Spokesperson hasn't worked out that if new shares are issued whilst D + M keep theirs that it could lead to them losing majority status. (Was it a club "source" or a club spokesperson - i.e. official).

[Badger 2,405]

2 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Said it before and will say it again . When the City stand is developed it will be as much about the additional facilities as the extra 7000 or so seats. That excites me too. Carrow Road as a venue could be very financially rewarding . 

Yes - I have said the same. A rebuilt City stand, close to the station, with ample parking and next to an hotel offers a wide variety of commercial opportunities. We would not need to fill the stand for it to be a source of revenue. I don't know if they still do it, but they used to lease quite a lot of the City stand to Norfolk County Council and Broadland Housing Association as office space - that must raise a six figure sum annually.

[dylanisabaddog 4,867]

54 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

If a profit comes via success on the field then who cares? I would suspect they would run the 2 businesses as separate entities though. Like I've already said time will tell and we have to trust the process and that due diligence has been done on this group. 

On paper though it seems a good fit. 

I have some magic beads that are available at a very reasonable price..... 

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

14 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I have some magic beads that are available at a very reasonable price..... 

Only interested in magic beans..... Sorry 😏

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,037]

10 hours ago, hogesar said:

Since 2019 they went public saying that investment interests would be dealt with by the board I.e Zoe Stuart etc. Even then people on here called her a liar. Turns out she was simply telling the truth.

There is a desperation from some on here to back peddle, ignore or plain pretend to forget the levels of personal attacks they made on the characters of our owners. I produced a list earlier. They shouldn't be defended for the stuff they said whatsoever,  but some on here will continue to do so (as it matches what they themselves said before too).

It doesn't mean that at all. I agree the personal attacks and general anti-Delia sentiment is wrong but you're just as bad the other way around. People need to see the grey sometimes.

[benchwarmer 624]

Hold your horses.

Delia and Michael are media people.  They know how it works.  This is getting far too much publicity to be credible.  What they're trying to do is scotch the rumour that they won't talk to investors and then carry on as before, saying "we tried".  I don't believe it will come to anything but hope I'm entirely wrong.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by benchwarmer

[hogesar 9,618]

6 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

It doesn't mean that at all. I agree the personal attacks and general anti-Delia sentiment is wrong but you're just as bad the other way around. People need to see the grey sometimes.

Well I believe what she said in 2019 and id be surprised if she went from no investment at all to suddenly being able to get 7 people down from America in a week. I'm sure there's been conversations with multiple people all the time, most of it a waste of time. As they've repeatedly said.

[hogesar 9,618]

1 minute ago, benchwarmer said:

Hold your horses.

Delia and Michael are media people.  They know how it works.  This is getting far too much publicity to be credible.  What they're trying to do is scotch the rumour that they won't talk to investors, and then carry on as before.  I don't believe it will come to anything but hope I'm entirely wrong.

 

 

Proving my point perfectly @Worthy Nigelton

[king canary 7,578]

6 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Hold your horses.

Delia and Michael are media people.  They know how it works.  This is getting far too much publicity to be credible.  What they're trying to do is scotch the rumour that they won't talk to investors and then carry on as before, saying "we tried".  I don't believe it will come to anything but hope I'm entirely wrong.

 

 

Has to be a joke right?

[WD40 720]

15 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Hold your horses.

Delia and Michael are media people.  They know how it works.  This is getting far too much publicity to be credible.  What they're trying to do is scotch the rumour that they won't talk to investors and then carry on as before, saying "we tried".  I don't believe it will come to anything but hope I'm entirely wrong.

 

 

You’ve spent far too long on the conspiracy sub reddit. Turn off Alex Jones and go and get some fresh air. 

[Drinkellsrightfoot 1]

3 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

The 23 billion is capital, it’s a fund company, I’m not sure why it is significant in this conversation?

They haven’t been successful from what I can see but maybe I don’t understand the leagues.

What happens if we aren’t successful? Do they shrug and say ok no worries or do they get their investment back through other means? I’m not saying we should rule it out but we must go in with open eyes to who we are dealing with. 

A lot has been said about this 23 billion capital fund, there is no indication that part of his business life is involved in this deal as the other owners aren’t mentioned to be involved towards NCFC.

as for the Stowmarket 2 doing their due diligence, let’s be honest the last eighteen months worth of business decisions haven’t been great, what makes you think this is going to be any better? When Burnley took their investment I’m sure they had belief everything was hunky dory after their due diligence, why are we immune from it going sour the same as Burnley.

Bare facts are, if they will be investing money to take control of the club is one thing, if they are investing in the club but not for control then the only motive is to make a profit on their investment (I.e. take money out the club) whatever league we are in and if we had made the money or not. These are business men who probably didn’t even know where Norwich was on a map before this deal.

[benchwarmer 624]

5 minutes ago, WD40 said:

You’ve spent far too long on the conspiracy sub reddit. Turn off Alex Jones and go and get some fresh air. 

Who is Alex Jones?

[king canary 7,578]

3 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Who is Alex Jones?

Presents the One Show

[hogesar 9,618]

20 minutes ago, king canary said:

Has to be a joke right?

You've been on this forum long enough KC....

[king canary 7,578]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

You've been on this forum long enough KC....

Reminds me a bit of all the folks saying Webber sacking Farke was somehow going to take the heat off him.

If the plan is to get fans all excited about investment only to turn it away to try and placate the fan base who think they refuse to consider investment then it is an exceptionally poorly thought out plan...

[hogesar 9,618]

Just now, king canary said:

Reminds me a bit of all the folks saying Webber sacking Farke was somehow going to take the heat off him.

If the plan is to get fans all excited about investment only to turn it away to try and placate the fan base who think they refuse to consider investment then it is an exceptionally poorly thought out plan...

Even worse, entertaining that level of clientel for a weekend has probably eaten into our transfer budget too!

[Worthy Nigelton 1,037]

45 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Well I believe what she said in 2019 and id be surprised if she went from no investment at all to suddenly being able to get 7 people down from America in a week. I'm sure there's been conversations with multiple people all the time, most of it a waste of time. As they've repeatedly said.

Maybe thats right, maybe its not. We will never know. I don't think we're such a rank awful investment as you tend to suggest. On the face of it we look as good a bet as virtually any other English football team and better than 95% of them.

Again, you're failing to see the grey or have any doubts that Delia's motives are anything but pure.

I honestly think Delia has been good for Norwich but Norwich has been incredible for Delia. Its been the most amazing investment beyond anything she could have ever dreamed of. Maybe I'm just a cynic but I don't think Delia's motives have always been whiter than white and have been very much financial at times, equally she has done a great job 80% of the time as an owner and we could have done WAY worse. What i would say is both the Delia outers and the Delia lovers both have points which are valid.

[king canary 7,578]

1 minute ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Maybe thats right, maybe its not. We will never know. I don't think we're such a rank awful investment as you tend to suggest. On the face of it we look as good a bet as virtually any other English football team and better than 95% of them.

Again, you're failing to see the grey or have any doubts that Delia's motives are anything but pure.

I honestly think Delia has been good for Norwich but Norwich has been incredible for Delia. Its been the most amazing investment beyond anything she could have ever dreamed of. Maybe I'm just a cynic but I don't think Delia's motives have always been whiter than white and have been very much financial at times, equally she has done a great job 80% of the time as an owner and we could have done WAY worse. What i would say is both the Delia outers and the Delia lovers both have points which are valid.

What we will likely never know is has this season changed their thinking? I do think DS & MWJ genuinely believed they fight against the tide and make the team competitive at the top level despite budgetary restrictions. With how this season has gone, have they maybe decided that actually isn't possible? 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

3 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Maybe thats right, maybe its not. We will never know. I don't think we're such a rank awful investment as you tend to suggest. On the face of it we look as good a bet as virtually any other English football team and better than 95% of them.

Again, you're failing to see the grey or have any doubts that Delia's motives are anything but pure.

I honestly think Delia has been good for Norwich but Norwich has been incredible for Delia. Its been the most amazing investment beyond anything she could have ever dreamed of. Maybe I'm just a cynic but I don't think Delia's motives have always been whiter than white and have been very much financial at times, equally she has done a great job 80% of the time as an owner and we could have done WAY worse. What i would say is both the Delia outers and the Delia lovers both have points which are valid.

But what about Wynnie? What have his motives been?

Media driven interviews do not make boardroom policy.