EXCLUSIVE: US tycoons in Norwich City investment talks

[CirclePoint 200]

7 hours ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

Ice hockey for me (NHL) ... perfect blend of brawn, power, skill and dexterity.

The draft system sees the poorer teams rebuilding with awesome starlets and the better teams desperately trying to make hay whilst the sun shines. Everyone's rising then falling - then rising again!

Super competitive, super tribal, super fun!

The Stanley Cup is sport at its finest.

Ice hockey players, in my opinion, are some of the best athletes, hands down. Not only as you mentioned brawn, power, skill & dexterity, but they’re doing it on ice skates while in some instances skating backwards! 
On top of that, the puck, which is no bigger than the palm of a hand, travels at 100mph!

No wonder so many of the players have teeth missing!

[Keyneton Canary 9]

6 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Cricket is an awesome sport, football trumps it but only just. 

Cricket, Aussie rules then football

[The Real Buh 3,432]

K

Edited February 25, 2023 by The Real Buh
k

[Indy 3,297]

11 hours ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

Ice hockey for me (NHL) ... perfect blend of brawn, power, skill and dexterity.

The draft system sees the poorer teams rebuilding with awesome starlets and the better teams desperately trying to make hay whilst the sun shines. Everyone's rising then falling - then rising again!

Super competitive, super tribal, super fun!

The Stanley Cup is sport at its finest.

After three seasons in the top pool, Great Britain unfortunately got relegated last week. I used to play when I was very young!

[canarydan23 4,060]

4 hours ago, CirclePoint said:

Ice hockey players, in my opinion, are some of the best athletes, hands down. Not only as you mentioned brawn, power, skill & dexterity, but they’re doing it on ice skates while in some instances skating backwards! 
On top of that, the puck, which is no bigger than the palm of a hand, travels at 100mph!

No wonder so many of the players have teeth missing!

Most of the missing teeth are from being punched in the face! As NHL fans say, "I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out"!

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

Trying to yank🇺🇸 this back from American sports, Kieran Maguire has said both sides would probably think £100m was a reasonable price for Norwich City. I don’t know if that is true, but if so and If that was achieved by buying all the 1m available ordinary shares that would price them at £100 each.

[king canary 7,604]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

Trying to yank🇺🇸 this back from American sports, Kieran Maguire has said both sides would probably think £100m was a reasonable price for Norwich City. I don’t know if that is true, but if so and If that was achieved by buying all the 1m available ordinary shares that would price them at £100 each.

Is that for the whole club or for the majority shareholding?

[king canary 7,604]

3 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Most of the missing teeth are from being punched in the face! As NHL fans say, "I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out"!

I've tried to get into Ice Hockey before but honestly watching on TV feels near impossible as I can't keep up with where the bloody puck is.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Neymar signed yet?

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

20 minutes ago, king canary said:

Is that for the whole club or for the majority shareholding?

Assuming there were no other significant sales or purchases, that would give the US investors roughly 62 per  cent of the expanded total share pile of 1.6m with S&J's percentage reducing to around 20 per cent. The excellent Gary Field gave these overall figures in his MFW piece.

But what I am still not totally sure about is whether, given this is the purchase of new shares, the 30 per cent rule that certainly applies to the purchase of existing shares would come into play. I think it would but am not certain. If so, then the investors would have to make an offer of £100 a share for everyone else's.

And if that took them to 90 per cent, as Gary also mentioned, they would have to buy the remaining 10 per cent. That would increase the total purchase price to £160m.

Edited May 31, 2022 by PurpleCanary

[essex canary 496]

22 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Assuming there were no other significant sales or purchases, that would give the US investors roughly 62 per  cent of the expanded total share pile of 1.6m with S&J's percentage reducing to around 20 per cent. The excellent Gary Field gave these overall figures in his MFW piece.

But what I am still not totally sure about is whether, given this is the purchase of new shares, the 30 per cent rule that certainly applies to the purchase of existing shares would come into play. I think it would but am not certain. If so, then the investors would have to make an offer of £100 a share for everyone else's.

And if that took them to 90 per cent, as Gary also mentioned, they would have to buy the remaining 10 per cent. That would increase the total purchase price to £160m.

Something like that I guess though probably a little more complicated. If they bought the new issue shares only at £100 each  it would imply that the Club is worth £161.7 million with the existing shares. In doing that they would have to make do allowance for the 30% rule that gives the right to existing shareholders to buy mores shares themselves to maintain their existing percentage should they wish to do so. 

[GMF 736]

31 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Assuming there were no other significant sales or purchases, that would give the US investors roughly 62 per  cent of the expanded total share pile of 1.6m with S&J's percentage reducing to around 20 per cent. The excellent Gary Field gave these overall figures in his MFW piece.

But what I am still not totally sure about is whether, given this is the purchase of new shares, the 30 per cent rule that certainly applies to the purchase of existing shares would come into play. I think it would but am not certain. If so, then the investors would have to make an offer of £100 a share for everyone else's.

And if that took them to 90 per cent, as Gary also mentioned, they would have to buy the remaining 10 per cent. That would increase the total purchase price to £160m.

 

31 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Assuming there were no other significant sales or purchases, that would give the US investors roughly 62 per  cent of the expanded total share pile of 1.6m with S&J's percentage reducing to around 20 per cent. The excellent Gary Field gave these overall figures in his MFW piece.

But what I am still not totally sure about is whether, given this is the purchase of new shares, the 30 per cent rule that certainly applies to the purchase of existing shares would come into play. I think it would but am not certain. If so, then the investors would have to make an offer of £100 a share for everyone else's.

And if that took them to 90 per cent, as Gary also mentioned, they would have to buy the remaining 10 per cent. That would increase the total purchase price to £160m.

These figures accord with mine and sound rather high (or, to put it another way, a good deal for D&M).

My view, for what it’s worth, is that these types of deals are typically done on a multiple of (projected) revenue streams, or a multiple of EBITA, with the current rates around 1x to 1.5x revenue projections.

This suggests to me, that while the starting point for the allocation price may (historically) be £100 a share, it’s highly likely to be a lot lower than that.

The tricky bit is forecasting future revenue, given that the club generated £32m back in 2018/19, in the Championship without parachute payments, and £119m, last time in the Premier League, albeit with a Covid-19 impact. The next two seasons, with parachute payments (assuming no promotion and player sales, the latter being unlikely) revenues are likely to be circa £75m - £80m, falling to £65m - £70m, the season after.

Obviously, these are personal estimates, and others may disagree, but would certainly impact on the sale price, should a deal be agreed.

[ricardo 7,384]

I think some people are letting their imagination run away with themselves. Speculation is understandable but I intend to remain cautious in what at the moment is a factual vacuum.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

30 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Something like that I guess though probably a little more complicated. If they bought the new issue shares only at £100 each  it would imply that the Club is worth £161.7 million with the existing shares. In doing that they would have to make do allowance for the 30% rule that gives the right to existing shareholders to buy mores shares themselves to maintain their existing percentage should they wish to do so. 

You have the advantage of me, because I didn't know there was such a rule, and it is not immediately clear to me how if it exists it would then work.

If for example the US investors buy up all the 1m new shares and so get way beyond 30 per cent of the new total, and the 30 per cent rule that does exist does apply to them, so they have to make an offer for all the existing shares,  there are no new shares left for existing shareholders to buy to keep their percentages.

Even if that 30 per cent rule doesn't apply to the US investors, and they don't have to make an offer for the existing shares, there are still no more new shares to be bought by shareholders to keep up their percentages.

Edited May 31, 2022 by PurpleCanary

[Jim Smith 2,317]

27 minutes ago, GMF said:

 

These figures accord with mine and sound rather high (or, to put it another way, a good deal for D&M).

My view, for what it’s worth, is that these types of deals are typically done on a multiple of (projected) revenue streams, or a multiple of EBITA, with the current rates around 1x to 1.5x revenue projections.

This suggests to me, that while the starting point for the allocation price may (historically) be £100 a share, it’s highly likely to be a lot lower than that.

The tricky bit is forecasting future revenue, given that the club generated £32m back in 2018/19, in the Championship without parachute payments, and £119m, last time in the Premier League, albeit with a Covid-19 impact. The next two seasons, with parachute payments (assuming no promotion and player sales, the latter being unlikely) revenues are likely to be circa £75m - £80m, falling to £65m - £70m, the season after.

Obviously, these are personal estimates, and others may disagree, but would certainly impact on the sale price, should a deal be agreed.

The shares are currently "notionally" valued at £50 per share when being traded aren't they? Delia and MWJ got most of theirs at £25. 

[Mr Angry 1,555]

On 28/05/2022 at 09:46, Badger said:

I have to say I'm comply confused. I was really surprised that US investors would want to buy in, in the first place and speculated that perhaps D + M were undervaluing their shares to attract new equity investment but this idea is blown out of the water if they are to remain as majority shareholders.

Doesn't make any sense to me at all - I think that I am going toe to put it out of my mind - fortunately the First Test starts on Friday, so I'll have other sporting distraction!

Not sure if anyone else has pointed this out, the 1st Test starts on Thursday. 🏏 

[GMF 736]

20 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

You have the advantage of me, because I didn't know there was such a rule, and it is not immediately clear to me how if it exists it would then work.

If for example the US investors buy up all the 1m new shares and so get way beyond 30 per cent of the new total, and the 30 per cent rule that does exist does apply to them, so they have to make an offer for all the existing shares,  there are no new shares left for existing shareholders to buy to keep their percentages.

Even if that 30 per cent rule doesn't apply to the US investors, and they don't have to make an offer for the existing shares, there are still no more new shares to be bought by shareholders to keep up their percentages. 

It’s Norwich City Football Club PLC, rather than Norwich City Limited (or Ltd) and has a share capital in excess of £50,000, suggests to me that it’s definitely a public, rather than private, company. I therefore believe that the takeover code applies, unless there’s some exemption of which I’m unaware.

Edited May 31, 2022 by GMF
Extra sentence

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

I've tried to get into Ice Hockey before but honestly watching on TV feels near impossible as I can't keep up with where the bloody puck is.

Who gives a f**k about the puck? I only watch ice hockey in case fighting breaks out.

[GMF 736]

8 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

The shares are currently "notionally" valued at £50 per share when being traded aren't they? Delia and MWJ got most of theirs at £25. 

Hi Jim, the shares aren’t traded on any authorised stock exchange and there’s no real time pricing information readily available. Any trades for consideration are private - the shares are effectively worth whatever someone is willing to offer for them. 

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

30 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I think some people are letting their imagination run away with themselves. Speculation is understandable but I intend to remain cautious in what at the moment is a factual vacuum.

With you on this Ricardo. Far too much speculation - in fact I've ignored it.

Only to two-penneth (imperial) I would add (somebody else likely mentioned) is that if the case can be made to recapitalize - issue a lot more shares - then yes the existing major share holders will have right to buy to maintain their % holding - but that's likely to be a bit rich for many if you haven't got the odd few tens of millions in spare cash i.e. to match the new investment. Been there, seen it and done it. Need to place notice in London Gazette for those that want to watch out for it.

 

[Badger 2,405]

40 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Not sure if anyone else has pointed this out, the 1st Test starts on Thursday. 🏏 

👍 Thanks - I did know it was Thursday - Goodness knows why I posted Friday? Senior moment probably!🤦‍♂️

[Pete Raven 276]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

I've tried to get into Ice Hockey before but honestly watching on TV feels near impossible as I can't keep up with where the bloody puck is.

I recommend this book

[Jim Smith 2,317]

56 minutes ago, GMF said:

Hi Jim, the shares aren’t traded on any authorised stock exchange and there’s no real time pricing information readily available. Any trades for consideration are private - the shares are effectively worth whatever someone is willing to offer for them. 

Sorry yes I get that but I am sure that the club has in the past placed a value of £50 on them. I can't recall where. They previously issued them at £25 but adjusted it upwards at some point. I appreciate that any private deal would be done on the basis of whatever someone is willing to pay but they have definitely placed a value of £50 on them at some point in the not too distant past. 

[GMF 736]

4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Sorry yes I get that but I am sure that the club has in the past placed a value of £50 on them. I can't recall where. They previously issued them at £25 but adjusted it upwards at some point. I appreciate that any private deal would be done on the basis of whatever someone is willing to pay but they have definitely placed a value of £50 on them at some point in the not too distant past. 

Went from £25, to £30 and then £100 in the early 2010’s. Very few purchased at the higher price, last back in 2014. 

[king canary 7,604]

26 minutes ago, Badger said:

👍 Thanks - I did know it was Thursday - Goodness knows why I posted Friday? Senior moment probably!🤦‍♂️

Rumours are it's going to be half empty due to the ridiculous pricing. 

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

1 hour ago, GMF said:

It’s Norwich City Football Club PLC, rather than Norwich City Limited (or Ltd) and has a share capital in excess of £50,000, suggests to me that it’s definitely a public, rather than private, company. I therefore believe that the takeover code applies, unless there’s some exemption of which I’m unaware.

Gary, I agree that the Takeover Code applies. It is possible to get a waiver from the 30 per cent rule about having to offer to buy everyone else's shares, but I think usually only in a financial emergency, and there is no sign of that here! It would be just a normal takeover.

[Badger 2,405]

21 minutes ago, king canary said:

Rumours are it's going to be half empty due to the ridiculous pricing. 

They don't seem that much different to normal - from £70 per day? I like to go to a Test most years and it the hotels and "other expenses" that really rack up the cost.

Long while since I've been to Lords though.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Badger
Added last sentence

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet (apologies if it has), but The Athletic, one of the best sources around, are reporting that the Attanasio deal is for Foulger's 18% stake.

[KeiranShikari 1,410]

A bit of a downer that but still, a foot in the door.

[king canary 7,604]

5 minutes ago, Badger said:

They don't seem that much different to normal - from £70 per day? I like to go to a Test most years and it the hotels and "other expenses" that really rack up the cost.

I think it is a case that the current economic situation makes the usual pricing beyond quite a few people, especially when the cheaper seats sell out

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/lords-empty-seats-jubilee-tickets-27109455