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king canary

Tzolis linked with Brugge

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Apparently we're talking to Brugge with a loan or permanent on the table.

If true it seems we're just cutting our losses on this one.

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If its a loan with an option to buy that feels pretty insane for a player we paid so much for and gave such a long contract to.

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4 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

If its a loan with an option to buy that feels pretty insane for a player we paid so much for and gave such a long contract to.

If true I'm not sure what to think of it.

In some ways, if we just don't think it'll work here for whatever reason it is better to move him on while he's still got some value. Another season on the bench here would tank it even more.

On the other hand it would seem a real shame to give up on a player who seemed to have some real talent.

It may be that Tzolis just hates it here and needs a fresh start. 

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The wide areas are our clear excess going into this summer. Especially considering how Rowe + Springett have come on, I expect most of our fat loss to come from out wide.

If you could trade Tzolis for a proper,  effective CM, you would. We'd instantly become a better side.

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4 minutes ago, king canary said:

If true I'm not sure what to think of it.

In some ways, if we just don't think it'll work here for whatever reason it is better to move him on while he's still got some value. Another season on the bench here would tank it even more.

On the other hand it would seem a real shame to give up on a player who seemed to have some real talent.

It may be that Tzolis just hates it here and needs a fresh start. 

Thats pretty much the only acceptable reason for me, even though that in itself creates a bunch of questions. Otherwise how did we turn one of Europes top young talents into a player that cant contribute in the Championship?

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15 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

If he leaves this summer does he go down as our worst signing ever or is that still Naismith or RvW?

I think it would somewhat depend on what we get back for him. I'd image we've not paid close to the suggest £11m yet as some will be related to appearances, goals, other add ons etc. So if we manage to recoup £5-6m and it turns out we've only paid £8m then I think it'll go down as a disappointment but nowhere near Naismith level in terms of financial damage.

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Brugge have some excellent young attackers at the minute so if they're cashing in on them it's interesting that they'd go for Tzolis, at least suggests there is a player in there somewhere.

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What would we rather? The (likely remote based upon limited appearances) possibility he comes good in the champs and turns himself into the £10m-£15m player we thought we'd bought, or, not do his reputation any more damage take a fee of around £6-£8m and write him off, or let him have a terrible season in the champs and end up basically giving him away or devaluing his stock to £2-4m. At his age each scenario has some validity. Given that DS has had half a season with him and he wasn't getting a look in I'd assume we are going to cut our losses.

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5 minutes ago, Thumbbass said:

What would we rather? The (likely remote based upon limited appearances) possibility he comes good in the champs and turns himself into the £10m-£15m player we thought we'd bought, or, not do his reputation any more damage take a fee of around £6-£8m and write him off, or let him have a terrible season in the champs and end up basically giving him away or devaluing his stock to £2-4m. At his age each scenario has some validity. Given that DS has had half a season with him and he wasn't getting a look in I'd assume we are going to cut our losses.

Tzolis is the end, my friend.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

Apparently we're talking to Brugge with a loan or permanent on the table.

If true it seems we're just cutting our losses on this one.

It looks like they were heavily linked with him last summer as well. Interesting.

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I still would like to see what he could do at Championship level.

It wound me up that we spent so much on RvW but never played him in the Champs when we went down, and just loaned him out for the rest of his contract. If the player is ours we should see what they can do.

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I guess if Smith rates both Springett and Rowe ahead of him then it makes sense.

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Would like to see him given a go at Championship level first. If he does go there I can only see it being a loan - his contract expires in 2026 and PAOK inserted a 17.5% sell on clause, so I can’t see us selling him yet

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52 minutes ago, Thumbbass said:

or, not do his reputation any more damage take a fee of around £6-£8m and write him off

That sounds incredibly optimistic, look how dreadful the team is that he failed to get into.

Be lucky to get any more than £2m for him at this point I suspect.

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21 minutes ago, HazzaJet said:

Would like to see him given a go at Championship level first. If he does go there I can only see it being a loan - his contract expires in 2026 and PAOK inserted a 17.5% sell on clause, so I can’t see us selling him yet

You'd imagine that would be on any profit though, rather that just any fee we sold him for.

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But didn't Webber and Farke rate him as one of the most exciting talents for the future. It's like having Kane, letting him go and see him become one of the worlds best strikers (which we did see, but when they trounced us 0-5) and we had Tzolis and he becomes the next Messi.

It would be one of Webbers worst "risks" but if he truly hasn't settled, which might account to him not progressing this season, and we can get a good fee, maybe it makes sense to recoup the money, free up a spot and let Smith get in someone he feels will battle on and off the pitch for us 

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

I think it would somewhat depend on what we get back for him. I'd image we've not paid close to the suggest £11m yet as some will be related to appearances, goals, other add ons etc. So if we manage to recoup £5-6m and it turns out we've only paid £8m then I think it'll go down as a disappointment but nowhere near Naismith level in terms of financial damage.

I tend to agree. He must have some sell on value even if we take a hit. Naismsith had next to zero.

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2 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

I tend to agree. He must have some sell on value even if we take a hit. Naismsith had next to zero.

Naismith and RVW we lost big time on. From memory didn’t we sell RVW for 500,00k or something… that’s appalling business. I would think we could get something a bit north of that for Tzolis if it came to it. 

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Just now, Danke bitte said:

Naismith and RVW we lost big time on. From memory didn’t we sell RVW for 500,00k or something… that’s appalling business. I would think we could get something a bit north of that for Tzolis if it came to it. 

We at least managed to loan him out though- I think we got a couple of loan fees for him before we sold and we got his wages off the books. Naismith sat through his whole bloody contract while claiming he'd play for Rangers for free. I imagine Hears barely paid 10% of his wages too.

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2 minutes ago, king canary said:

You'd imagine that would be on any profit though, rather that just any fee we sold him for.

I would think so, but considering he was signed as a teenager on a five year contract I would expect us to try and develop him into huge talent and become a record club departure

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I'd be devastated if we let him go. I can only think that his attitude stinks and there's a real issue with him that we want rid. I can honestly say I have seen quite a few glimpses of real talent in the very minimal time he has played. 

 

Bournemouth ( against opposition standard we will face next year )

 

Arsenal away- was the only attacking threat all game

 

Newcastle away- despite being hooked off at HT he created 3 chances and had two shots goalbound blocked in just 45 mins.

 

Liverpool home in the cup- despite the penalty miss and apparent breakage of penalty duties (idah was meant to take it) he was again the only attacking threat and was the man to create the pen chance in the first place

 

His movement off the ball in attacking positions is SUPERB from what I've seen. Yes, his defensive duties less so good but that's his youth and inexperience.... in the Champs we will higher up the pitch and have more possession and therefore can afford the likes of Tzolis gambling forward.

 

He's 10x the talent of Sargent (not hard I know) and about 5000037282x the talent of Placheta...

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Considering he was supposed to be one for the future, it makes last seasons recruitment look even more lame if he goes. 

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2 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Thats pretty much the only acceptable reason for me, even though that in itself creates a bunch of questions. Otherwise how did we turn one of Europes top young talents into a player that cant contribute in the Championship?

I agree don't know how many times he got on the pitch but must be p....d off so why not move on.  At his age needs game time. As long as we recoup most of our outlay and salary then could be  good for all parties.

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33 minutes ago, king canary said:

We at least managed to loan him out though- I think we got a couple of loan fees for him before we sold and we got his wages off the books. Naismith sat through his whole bloody contract while claiming he'd play for Rangers for free. I imagine Hears barely paid 10% of his wages too.

Naismith also waited an extra month before signing for Hearts to trigger another wage payment from us, something supposedly part of footballer's contracts so those that can't find a club when their contract ends have some money to tide them over. Given he'd been playing for them for 18 months by that point it was a pretty grubby thing to do.

Edited by Peanuts
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No surprise here. There seemed to be some odd belief from many on this forum that he was going to stay and tear up the championship, as if we were wrapping him up in cotton wool until then.

He cost something like 8 million - our club doesn't invest that kind of money for an academy player. 

He struggled to make the squad infront of semi-fit players.

Hopefully we can claw back a bit of cash although effectively no chance of breaking even. 

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It should be pointed out that he's still younger than Maddison was when we sent him on loan to Coventry then Aberdeen, so theres still time for him to come good

However spending a sixth of our budget on him last summer was criminal

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