Webbers full interview, out now

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

26 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

With regards to referring to Norwich as a town, I have never done it, as kids we always got the bus into "the city", the team are called Norwich City, our bitter rivals are Ipswich Town. There is absolutely nothing wrong with me, Norwich born and bred wanting the beautiful and fragrant Cathedral City being called what it is........a city. 

Brentford staying up is a fact, one that when mentioned to Mr Webber he choose to barely acknowledge other than to refer to Sheff Utd and Huddersfield, getting relegated in their second seasons and suggesting Brentford will go down next season, he may be right, he may be wrong, but he didn't want to address it because it did not fit in with the narrative of what a wonderful job he has done.

I heard the glib statement about fans being the lifeblood which contradicted the earlier the fans were ****. The support was far better than the club deserved given the complete crap dished up week in week out as a direct result of the complete and utter **** up made by Webber in the player recruitment department........no sorry.....that was Archant's fault for daring to criticise the club.

I have bitten once, don't waste your time and energy replying because I won't bite gain you weapons grade WUM........

I’m not busy, I’m happy to reply but appreciate your concern for my time. The city/town debate is a non-starter and insinuating I’m somehow disrespecting Norwich by saying I’m popping into Town is embarrassingly parochial and I’m secure enough in my knowledge of dialect and language to know that I’m not the only one and it doesn’t make me an undercover Ipswich fan. 

Brentford stayed up. Good for them and genuinely hope they maintain it. But they aren’t us, they’ve bought well and they are, whether you acknowledge it or otherwise, a happy anomaly in the world of the closed shop that is the epl. The point he makes is competing consistently at the top table is hard to do and most teams similar to us in terms of size and wealth don’t do it for any long term spell. How you can refute this is beyond me as the history speaks for itself. It’s not Webber’s narrative, it’s factual information. On balance he has done a good job over his time with us, to refute this is blindly ignorant, bad season this time for sure but overall still in credit for me. 

Where in his interview does he say it was Archants fault we went down? Now you’re just making up stuff so you can vent your outrage. His recruitment for instant premier league impact players was not good enough. Totally agree. But support from the stands was woeful ALL SEASON. If you were there too then you know this and honestly, the teams we did beat STILL out sung us. For 85 minutes we sat as a collective and gave nothing in the quiet moments to drown out the away fans. We let it happen and it was poor. Again, this is fact. If you have to wait until you score before you give your team appreciation in the top division against world class possession dominating teams you get what we had. Total silence. Not good enough.

You can shout as loud as you like while you’re tapping your keys and calling me a ‘weapons grade WUM’  whilst telling me not to bother replying may bring you some comfort in your moment of faux outrage. I’ll look forward to either your principled stance against the clubs decisions by handing back your season ticket or your decision to make a real go of a protest against these decisions, which if you can muster more than a bedsheet might stop the fans laughing at how pathetically non existent the movement is for change. But at present, if you think this forum is giving you a direct line to the corridors of power you might be disappointed. 
Go on! Tap those keys harder and really get out your misplaced aggression - you deserve happiness 😂😘

Edited May 26, 2022 by SwearyCanary

[kenfoggo 247]

Does anyone take Mr Webber as a genuine individual?

He appears to be able to equivocate with sincerity and yet I do not believe much of what he spews out.

He is the one person, as Sporting Director , who owns the responsibility for the disaster that this season has been.

He needs to go, go now,  and we need to move on with a team that no longer embraces the losing culture that Mr Webber has generated and developed through out this Club. He is a shameful embarrassment .

 

[Duncan Edwards 2,231]

14 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

He will be in constant communication with Smith over the season and the truth is, Smith would rather play the u23 players than Tzolis, would rather play anyone than Kabak. We have had injuries, but ultimately we have been really short in most games and have had to spend most of the time trying to stop conceding rather than playing balanced football.

Smith has been pretty open about the lack of legs, pressing etc. He would have to be deluded to not see the chasm in the performance level required. 

Back to your point, is that Sargent miss against Brighton a sliding doors moment? Three points, Sargent off the mark and then it all seems much better. I think that’s potentially clutching at straws though.

How often has Kabak been fit? I think he’s one we’ve been unfortunate with. If you’d offered me the choice of him, Ajer or Cahill at the start of the season, I’d have taken Kabak. Looks mental in hindsight, but I do believe he’s a proper player. He’d have been a very valid and alternative option had he stay fit. His willingness to carry the ball - however cavalier it might have appeared - would be more preferable to me than some of the lump it long stuff we resorted to when he wasn’t available. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

4 minutes ago, kenfoggo said:

Does anyone take Mr Webber as a genuine individual?

He appears to be able to equivocate with sincerity and yet I do not believe much of what he spews out.

He is the one person, as Sporting Director , who owns the responsibility for the disaster that this season has been.

He needs to go, go now,  and we need to move on with a team that no longer embraces the losing culture that Mr Webber has generated and developed through out this Club. He is a shameful embarrassment .

 

Two championship titles in 5 years = losing culture. You’re going to have to explain this one I’m afraid. 

[WD40 720]

9 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

Two championship titles in 5 years = losing culture. You’re going to have to explain this one I’m afraid. 

Two of the worst premier league teams in the history of the competition.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

9 minutes ago, WD40 said:

Two of the worst premier league teams in the history of the competition.

It’s all relative though isn’t it. Every year the gap widens so every year we don’t retain status puts us behind further, so the fact we are getting there doesn’t say we have a ‘losing culture’ does it? 

[corbs 147]

I was rather surprised how bland the interview was, and to me it was cliché ridden. I’m genuinely curious to know what went wrong, and how we wasted 50/60 million, and all I was told was that things are ok, and going to plan. I’m “Authentic”? Afraid it’s no show for me. 

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

Wavering on Stuart as DOF and interview did little to change that. Probably has just enough credit banked to see what he can do with this coaching team and would seriously question if any replacement would be able to do much more given the limitations he has to work under.

the contradictions, the ‘I understands’ (but clearly doesn’t), the ‘I don’t cares’ (but clearly does) and the disrespectful comments about fans all prove that perhaps a media training refresher course wouldn’t be a bad idea but having a overly self assured DOF negotiating player purchases and sales isn’t the worst thing in the world. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Son Ova Gunn

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

Just now, SwearyCanary said:

It’s all relative though isn’t it. Every year the gap widens so every year we don’t retain status puts us behind further, so the fact we are getting there doesn’t say we have a ‘losing culture’ does it? 

To be totally honest in spite of the changing landscape of growing wealth gaps between clubs with a billionaire and clubs without, our consistency is pretty phenomenal. If we take Webber’s 5 year tenure and average league position in the whole pyramid over that time we average out at 23.2 position. The five years prior was our best 5 year spell averaging 19.8 (this includes the Hughton 11th place which honestly if I had to watch that every week I’d rather we went into administration!) the 5 years before this we were 31.6, next 5 years 26.6, then next 5 years 31.4 and finally the 5 years which include the start of the premier league era and our best finish of 3rd we average for that spell 20.8 position. 
Although this does prove Webber is not the ‘best’ custodian of the club over the last 30 years, he is helping to keep us where we are in spite of the wealth we aren’t seeing come to our club relatively speaking. This deserves credit and is not an indicator for a losing culture in my eyes. Not until we do what we’ve done this year for consecutive seasons can we call it this. I’ll begin to feel the time is right for a change of things should we be below mid table next season, but bigger picture tells us it’d be too early to make that call 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, SwearyCanary said:

It’s all relative though isn’t it. Every year the gap widens so every year we don’t retain status puts us behind further, so the fact we are getting there doesn’t say we have a ‘losing culture’ does it? 

Does the gap widen every year? 

Each Premier League side can register 25 senior players. That's 500 for the league. 

No matter how much money the Premier League has, they still only have the top 15-20 percent of pro footballers in the country. 

I'm currently pulling together the number of teams relegated at first attempt, by year, since the Premier Leagues inception, to settle this once and for all. I can already tell you that in the 90s you could expect at least 1 newly promoted side to go straight back down. I don't think the gap has increased between the Prem and second tier as much as some make out.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

6 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

Last two years before Bournemouth and therefore when we may have signed him he was at Palace who finished 14th and 13th. That’s not ‘high’ prem level and if a team finishing just above relegation feel they are happy to let him go then it’s safe to say as a team that at the start of a season we’d assume would be in and around where we want to be aiming that buying in the player they deem as not good enough having had him for two years was not a sound investment. Especially with high wages and ageing physique. Honestly as bad as Kabak is he was at least young, fit and played under Klopp recently at the top end of the epl. On paper it’s a no brainer and Kabak being quite so ineffective I think surprised a lot of people - even me. Cahill was never really in the conversation and rightly so

I guess we just have to agree to disagree my friend. Respectfully we are Miles off the level of palace and he’s won leagues and champions leagues at Chelsea; was once a first choice for England at CB. The value that experience brings and would add to players like Omobamadele and Aaron’s plus the lack of transfer or loan fee would of made it value for money in my book even with higher wages. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

4 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Does the gap widen every year? 

Each Premier League side can register 25 senior players. That's 500 for the league. 

No matter how much money the Premier League has, they still only have the top 15-20 percent of pro footballers in the country. 

I'm currently pulling together the number of teams relegated at first attempt, by year, since the Premier Leagues inception, to settle this once and for all. I can already tell you that in the 90s you could expect at least 1 newly promoted side to go straight back down. I don't think the gap has increased between the Prem and second tier as much as some make out.

Genuinely interested to see this sta my when you have it 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

23 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I guess we just have to agree to disagree my friend. Respectfully we are Miles off the level of palace and he’s won leagues and champions leagues at Chelsea; was once a first choice for England at CB. The value that experience brings and would add to players like Omobamadele and Aaron’s plus the lack of transfer or loan fee would of made it value for money in my book even with higher wages. 

Fair play, happy to let bygones be bygones 

[NCFCInnit 52]

Embarrassing cowardice of the club to hide behind a cosy closed door "interview". Utter arrogance to condemn anyone (including people who actually played, managed or owned at premier league level) who dares to criticise or urge a change in direction.

Presumably, the only people they will have to face are the shareholders and that will hardly be a gig with tough and perceptive questions to answer.

Most embarrassing and insulting was the command that if you don't like it, there's the door. It's not the fans who need to be shown the door.

 

[hogesar 9,658]

To be fair as someone else said this is very much a similar moment to our first season too, where Webber told some of our fans to go support another club if they couldn't see what we were trying to achieve.

I hope they didn't take his advice because that next season was one of the most enjoyable to watch.

Hopefully history repeats itself.

[hertfordyellow 460]

7 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

How often has Kabak been fit? I think he’s one we’ve been unfortunate with. If you’d offered me the choice of him, Ajer or Cahill at the start of the season, I’d have taken Kabak. Looks mental in hindsight, but I do believe he’s a proper player. He’d have been a very valid and alternative option had he stay fit. His willingness to carry the ball - however cavalier it might have appeared - would be more preferable to me than some of the lump it long stuff we resorted to when he wasn’t available. 

Maybe my recollection is muddled, but it seems he was in the training videos but not playing quite often. He filled me with panic when he played as I don’t think he is a defender first, player second, he doesn’t like defending. But that is just opinion.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

5 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Does the gap widen every year? 

Each Premier League side can register 25 senior players. That's 500 for the league. 

No matter how much money the Premier League has, they still only have the top 15-20 percent of pro footballers in the country. 

I'm currently pulling together the number of teams relegated at first attempt, by year, since the Premier Leagues inception, to settle this once and for all. I can already tell you that in the 90s you could expect at least 1 newly promoted side to go straight back down. I don't think the gap has increased between the Prem and second tier as much as some make out.

So I’ve done some non thorough research and numbers from last 30 years of epl era and divided them into 10 year intervals.

Overall 42% of teams get relegated immediately after being promoted (38 of 90)

Over the first 10 year spell this was 12 of 30 (40%)

Over the second 10 year spell this was 12 of 30 (40%)

Over the most recent 10 year spell this is 14 out of 30 (46.6%) 

I confess it’s not a significant rise that categorically proves my point but the rise is there. Be interesting to see where it goes from here and would not be a bad metric for measuring any success of the measures following the crouch report 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

21 minutes ago, hogesar said:

To be fair as someone else said this is very much a similar moment to our first season too, where Webber told some of our fans to go support another club if they couldn't see what we were trying to achieve.

I hope they didn't take his advice because that next season was one of the most enjoyable to watch.

Hopefully history repeats itself.

Some fans aren't important enough or valuable enough to be treated with respect by the club. Some of the comments here about money fans put into the club, with the disgruntled consumer-like rhetoric, makes it sound like they're personally bankrolling the club like the Saudi benefactors at Newcastle instead of people who annually put in enough personally to maybe pay for 10 minutes of first team training. 

 The club laid out its stall to be a top 26 club and has delivered on it very well, all the time building the academy and gently aiming to evolve the squad. That's what Webber has bought to the table and it boggles me that so many would glibly throw that away for the sake of their own egos. 

Yet even with that, some fans still seem unable to grasp that the ever-widening chasm between the Championship and Premier League means that tackling the Premier League the way we have tried to always risks having a train crash season if factors out of our control don't go our way. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[ged in the onion bag 855]

11 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

We could afford Ajer. We weren’t willing to get in a bidding war over wages that we didn’t think he was worth. That said, the money wasted on Kabak, Ajer looks like a bargain now.

But then he would have been playing behind that midfield so would have struggled anyway, Ajer made the right move!   

[hertfordyellow 460]

10 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

1) inflation - my car costs 75% more to fill up now than it did then so only a reasonable assumption player values would rise at a proportional rate

 

2) we spent 58 million more for 1 extra point. 
 

3) I agree 

4) it’s always been hard to get more occasional tickets for as long as I can remember with the short exception being under grant and roeder. 

Sorry, I see the 58 million to get one more point argument disingenuous. Farke had Buendia, Lewis and Godfrey at his disposal in 19/20, Premiership players. Farke / Smith didn’t have them available in 21/22. 58 million worth of talent wasn’t added to the squad and so a direct comparison with points total is not accurate. The figure is actually negative spend when you accurately attribute the sale of these three players to the funds used to purchase the 58 million pound players.

Also inflation cannot be attributed equally to each item. They have there own inflation rate. Linking petrol to players doesn’t make much sense.

Edited May 27, 2022 by hertfordyellow

[ged in the onion bag 855]

5 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

So I’ve done some non thorough research and numbers from last 30 years of epl era and divided them into 10 year intervals.

Overall 42% of teams get relegated immediately after being promoted (38 of 90)

Over the first 10 year spell this was 12 of 30 (40%)

Over the second 10 year spell this was 12 of 30 (40%)

Over the most recent 10 year spell this is 14 out of 30 (46.6%) 

I confess it’s not a significant rise that categorically proves my point but the rise is there. Be interesting to see where it goes from here and would not be a bad metric for measuring any success of the measures following the crouch report 

What’s the percentage the last 2 or 3 yrs?   

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

23 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

So I’ve done some non thorough research and numbers from last 30 years of epl era and divided them into 10 year intervals.

Overall 42% of teams get relegated immediately after being promoted (38 of 90)

Over the first 10 year spell this was 12 of 30 (40%)

Over the second 10 year spell this was 12 of 30 (40%)

Over the most recent 10 year spell this is 14 out of 30 (46.6%) 

I confess it’s not a significant rise that categorically proves my point but the rise is there. Be interesting to see where it goes from here and would not be a bad metric for measuring any success of the measures following the crouch report 

Thanks for saving me a job! 

Is it not Norwich bringing up the average though, is it 4 relegations for us in that final 10 years?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

18 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

What’s the percentage the last 2 or 3 yrs?   

Insuffficient sample size

[ged in the onion bag 855]

37 minutes ago, hogesar said:

To be fair as someone else said this is very much a similar moment to our first season too, where Webber told some of our fans to go support another club if they couldn't see what we were trying to achieve.

I hope they didn't take his advice because that next season was one of the most enjoyable to watch.

Hopefully history repeats itself.

Your quite right there.   That season was a development season though (some could see what was going on, others couldn’t and we know who they are), so I’d like to think we have that development to come.    Sadly however, it seems the driver for the club and still many on here is a promotion which I believe would be once again too soon.   But in 2, possibly 3 seasons I too hope it repeats itself….. sadly, too many don’t have the patience.

if it repeats next season then sure enough the following one will repeat this awful season!  We aren’t ready!

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

19 hours ago, HazzaJet said:

I still want Webber to be here next season. He’s done great for us in the Championship and as it stands my theory behind why he failed in the signings this season is because he was working on a very tight budget and couldn’t sign the players he needed - we all know there is quite a difference in price between an experienced Championship player and an experienced PL player

I know just about everyone else wants him out, but I’m not going to want him out until he fails for us in the Championship

Yep, pretty much how I see it. It's understandable to want a pound of flesh when we've had a season as shoite as this one, but I just look at where we were when he took over. Shoite training facilities, an aging team, no clear way of playing, big wage bill, less income coming in, not the most attractive place to come to from a player's perspective and financially in a rather parlous state.

We've got far better facilities and a clear pathway for youth to come in, no debt despite a pandemic crippling an income stream for 18 months and unlike other relegated teams, don't have to look at selling just to keep books reasonably balanced, so can approach it a bit more on our terms (unless a player does a Buendia and basically downs tools). Smith does seem to like to encourage youngsters along too, as the likes of Rowe and Springett have clearly shown over the last three months. The obvious downsides are that under Smith, a discernible style of play isn't apparent yet and that we've only got parachute payments for three years.

Pretty much find myself agreeing with @Feedthewolf here.

[astro 360]

8 hours ago, corbs said:

I was rather surprised how bland the interview was, and to me it was cliché ridden. I’m genuinely curious to know what went wrong, and how we wasted 50/60 million, and all I was told was that things are ok, and going to plan. I’m “Authentic”? Afraid it’s no show for me. 

I could only listen to a few minutes of it. All spin.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

7 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Insuffficient sample size

Not necessarily, if the gap is widening right now like it seems to be!    Accepted we are contributing to that factor quite effectively!

[HazzaJet 252]

10 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Yep, pretty much how I see it. It's understandable to want a pound of flesh when we've had a season as shoite as this one, but I just look at where we were when he took over. Shoite training facilities, an aging team, no clear way of playing, big wage bill, less income coming in, not the most attractive place to come to from a player's perspective and financially in a rather parlous state.

We've got far better facilities and a clear pathway for youth to come in, no debt despite a pandemic crippling an income stream for 18 months and unlike other relegated teams, don't have to look at selling just to keep books reasonably balanced, so can approach it a bit more on our terms (unless a player does a Buendia and basically downs tools). Smith does seem to like to encourage youngsters along too, as the likes of Rowe and Springett have clearly shown over the last three months. The obvious downsides are that under Smith, a discernible style of play isn't apparent yet and that we've only got parachute payments for three years.

Pretty much find myself agreeing with @Feedthewolf here.

In actual fact we’ve only got parachute payments for two years - to get three years you have to stay up for consecutive seasons. So Burnley will have three years, Watford will only have two, and West Brom only have one left

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 minute ago, HazzaJet said:

In actual fact we’ve only got parachute payments for two years - to get three years you have to stay up for consecutive seasons. So Burnley will have three years, Watford will only have two, and West Brom only have one left

Fair enough, but the crux remains - we're financially in a far safer, less parlous position than the overwhelming majority of fellow Championship clubs. I'd also say that if we're re-etablished as a team that's always put store on youth development, we'd also be in a less parlous position if we have to go without parachute payments too.

[king canary 7,604]

42 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

So I’ve done some non thorough research and numbers from last 30 years of epl era and divided them into 10 year intervals.

Overall 42% of teams get relegated immediately after being promoted (38 of 90)

Over the first 10 year spell this was 12 of 30 (40%)

Over the second 10 year spell this was 12 of 30 (40%)

Over the most recent 10 year spell this is 14 out of 30 (46.6%) 

I confess it’s not a significant rise that categorically proves my point but the rise is there. Be interesting to see where it goes from here and would not be a bad metric for measuring any success of the measures following the crouch report 

It does feel to me that the gap is widening in general but it is widening even more for us.

I know fees aren't the be all and end all but reportedly Tzolis, at £11m, was our record transfer fee.

That means the most we've ever been able to spend on a single player is less that not only the other 19 Premier League teams but also (according to Transfermarkt) less than several teams in the Championship. For example Hull reportedly paid more for Ryan Mason in 2016, West Brom paid more for Rondon in 2015,  Swansea paid more for Bony in 2013, Middlesbrough paid more for Afonso Alves in 2008 and Fulham paid similar for Steve Marlet in 2001! 

So even in a summer with a record spend, we're paying top end fees that other midtable clubs were paying 10 or even 20 years ago. In the financial arms race that is Premier League football we get further and further behind the curve.