This time feels so much worse.

[Jambomo 215]

10 minutes ago, komakino said:

So the EPL is to blame for Norwich's City's failings this season? Yes there can be a healthy debate on the EPL as a whole, but blaming them for our issues is absurd. We've not even tried to compete because we do want to. 

We have tried to compete but that’s the problem, without money you simply can’t. Everyone points to how we spent all that money last summer but the good teams in the PL spend that kind of money EVERY summer. That’s how you build PL teams, over time with one or two big signings every year. Because we can’t afford that, the one season we get money, we were trying to buy too many players to get proper quality - hence gambles on the likes of Normann who was injury prone or Tzolis who is very young.

For all our failings on the pitch, at least we aren’t worried about whether our club will still exist next season, unlike Burnley who look ****ed.

[komakino 272]

6 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

We have tried to compete but that’s the problem, without money you simply can’t. Everyone points to how we spent all that money last summer but the good teams in the PL spend that kind of money EVERY summer. That’s how you build PL teams, over time with one or two big signings every year. Because we can’t afford that, the one season we get money, we were trying to buy too many players to get proper quality - hence gambles on the likes of Normann who was injury prone or Tzolis who is very young.

For all our failings on the pitch, at least we aren’t worried about whether our club will still exist next season, unlike Burnley who look ****ed.

We don't keep our best players and build on that, which is suicidal. All the good work gets throw down the toilet, so to speak. Again and again and again. It must be noted that out net spend was low. 

Now whose fault is that? 

Ultimately the buck stops at the top. The club employed Webber to do a job, which one would assume is to try to solidify EPL status. You don't do that by selling what got you there and starting again. We have the perverse system where we have a worse team in the EPL than in The Championship, with the inevitable results. 

Most owners would not wear that and Webber would be P45 material. Not here. 

When my wife worked at CR a few years back, she was told straight off from staff that Delia 'Was not interested in the Premiership' , which she though was rather odd and self defeating. It's something I've consistently heard since with one member of staff the other week telling me that 'I don't think the club wants to stay there (EPL)'. The penny had finally dropped. 

In life, if you think you will fail, you will fail. 

We always knew it was going to be tough this season, fair enough. However, the negativity that comes from our hapless owners is unhealthy and is already doing great damage. Who the hell would want to come here? I know D&M won't sell and legally the handover to Tom is all sorted, so anyone like myself hoping for any rich knight in showing armour to knock on the Club's door will receive a two word response. 

Onwards and Upwards? Don't bet on it. 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

My Grandson said to me yesterday that he would probably prefer Liverpool to win the title because ManC have bought it. While I agreed with him that historically, Liverpool have been title contenders and ManC were not until the takeover, Liverpool are trying to but the league. Alexander Arnold is their only academy product currently in the 1st team. Liverpool have bought the rest and have now bought Carvalho from Fulham.

Its the name of the game nowadays. Success has to be instant. No time to wait for a youngster to come through. Those that are close get sent out on loan and invariably don't make it. So the majority of the EPL recruits.

We spent large for us this season and it hasn't worked out because we bought Championship players at best. We seemed impressed at first but it became clear early on that we recruited far worse than what we lost. So how can you compete if you are weakening the squad before you even start.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,542]

53 minutes ago, komakino said:

So the EPL is to blame for Norwich's City's failings this season? Yes there can be a healthy debate on the EPL as a whole, but blaming them for our issues is absurd. We've not even tried to compete because we do want to. 

Our club doesn't have. any issues, other than struggling to establish itself as a fixture in the Premier League. 

Outside of established Premier League clubs, we're arguably the most successful club there is in English football for the last 10 years. 

[komakino 272]

8 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Our club doesn't have. any issues, other than struggling to establish itself as a fixture in the Premier League. 

Outside of established Premier League clubs, we're arguably the most successful club there is in English football for the last 10 years. 

Much depends if you are happy about being a second tier club. Some are, some are not. 

As for the club not having any issues... How long have you got?! 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,542]

2 minutes ago, komakino said:

Much depends if you are happy about being a second tier club. Some are, some are not. 

As for the club not having any issues... How long have you got?! 

Plenty of time. Let's hear it. 

[king canary 7,603]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Plenty of time. Let's hear it. 

Off the top of my head I'd say the generally muddled recruitment and the strained relationships between key people at the club, the fans and the local media seem like issues.

[hogesar 9,657]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Off the top of my head I'd say the generally muddled recruitment and the strained relationships between key people at the club, the fans and the local media seem like issues.

I agree, but will quickly go away if we have a good start next season.

[king canary 7,603]

Just now, hogesar said:

I agree, but will quickly go away if we have a good start next season.

I'm not convinced they will to be honest. They might go 'on hold' somewhat but if we go back up I think the benefit of the doubt given to the club is going to be very limited come next summer.

[hogesar 9,657]

7 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm not convinced they will to be honest. They might go 'on hold' somewhat but if we go back up I think the benefit of the doubt given to the club is going to be very limited come next summer.

Even on hold for a season is essentially good enough, the reprieve needed. Football fans are notoriously fickle, we all are.

We didn't get to enjoy the last championship campaign in person - had that happened I think there'd have been less pressure on Farke early on in the Prem season, rightly or wrongly.

If we have a good season next, there'll be more of a bond with players, songs sung about individual players again, etc etc. That goodwill and momentum is always helpful.

[komakino 272]

35 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm not convinced they will to be honest. They might go 'on hold' somewhat but if we go back up I think the benefit of the doubt given to the club is going to be very limited come next summer.

I think Webber has to go and Smith allowed to bring his own men in. If that happens, then there could be progress - albeit slowly. On the other hand, if Smith has to accept players into his squad against his will, then it won't work - though one would expect Smith to walk before that happened. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by komakino

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, komakino said:

So the EPL is to blame for Norwich's City's failings this season? Yes there can be a healthy debate on the EPL as a whole, but blaming them for our issues is absurd. We've not even tried to compete because we do want to. 

The club, or to be more precise Stuart Webber, has made a series of mistakes this season which have meant that we have had a disastrous and utterly miserable season, and those failings are all clearly his responsibility. But they are errors of footballing judgement which TBF is hardly an exact science. I agree that in most businesses, footballing or otherwise, a director would get the sack for failings on that scale and certainly IMO Webber should get the sack now.

But what you said originally was that ‘our owners should embrace the Premiership’ and when you were asked what that actually meant you replied:

‘Not slagging it off would help for a start. The league isn’t at fault for the clubs problems, the club is. 

However our owners aren’t interested in the EPL, though that is nothing new.

This season has shown how hopelessly out of depth our owners are at this level and how badly run it is. If it were an animal, it would be put down out of kindness. ‘

Quite frankly none of the above is true, the EPL are not directly to blame for Webber making a series of bad calls but they are directly responsible for most of the problems facing the vast majority of professional football clubs in this country and especially those, such as NCFC, which aspire to get to the top level (and stay there at least for a while).

Your remarks about our owners are risible (just to keep it polite since they are actually far worse), and when you say that they are hopelessly out of depth at this level I presume you think that ‘this level’ is something desirable or valuable. But I’m entirely with @littleyellowbirdie

that the EPL is killing English football, and whilst our owners make mistakes (and I've yet to see a club whose owner's don't) they at least believe in real football and trying to be a community club which to me is far more important (and supportable) than being part of a weekly TV reality show which shows a lot of sterile football and in which football fans are just extras to make the TV programmes look better.

[komakino 272]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Plenty of time. Let's hear it. 

You obviously know nobody connected with the club, either in a playing or non playing capacity otherwise you would not be asking this question! 

[komakino 272]

4 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

The club, or to be more precise Stuart Webber, has made a series of mistakes this season which have meant that we have had a disastrous and utterly miserable season, and those failings are all clearly his responsibility. But they are errors of footballing judgement which TBF is hardly an exact science. I agree that in most businesses, footballing or otherwise, a director would get the sack for failings on that scale and certainly IMO Webber should get the sack now.

 

But what you said originally was that ‘our owners should embrace the Premiership’ and when you were asked what that actually meant you replied:

 

‘Not slagging it off would help for a start. The league isn’t at fault for the clubs problems, the club is. 

 

However our owners aren’t interested in the EPL, though that is nothing new.

 

This season has shown how hopelessly out of depth our owners are at this level and how badly run it is. If it were an animal, it would be put down out of kindness. ‘

 

Quite frankly none of the above is true, the EPL are not directly to blame for Webber making a series of bad calls but they are directly responsible for most of the problems facing the vast majority of professional football clubs in this country and especially those, such as NCFC, which aspire to get to the top level (and stay there at least for a while).

 

Your remarks about our owners are risible (just to keep it polite since they are actually far worse), and when you say that they are hopelessly out of depth at this level I presume you think that ‘this level’ is something desirable or valuable. But I’m entirely with @littleyellowbirdie

 

that the EPL is killing English football, and whilst our owners make mistakes (and I've yet to see a club whose owner's don't) they at least believe in real football and trying to be a community club which to me is far more important (and supportable) than being part of a weekly TV reality show which shows a lot of sterile football and in which football fans are just extras to make the TV programmes look better.

I find it hard that anyone would argue against our owners being out of their depth. To have owners at this level in particular who offer nothing, either in financial terms directly or indirectly, is absurd. How is the club benefiting from their tenure? Just the club existing is nothing they can claim credit for. 

Whatever the merits of the EPL, it is what it is. I'm not in love with it, but it has the best players and best quality of football. Norwich City or any other club is not going to change that. Either you accept it or walk away. As Michael Bailey said last week, Norwich City are trying to run (NCFC) how football clubs were 30 or 40 years ago and that is there way.' 

As we have seen, It doesn't work. 

 

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

4 hours ago, komakino said:

I find it hard that anyone would argue against our owners being out of their depth. To have owners at this level in particular who offer nothing, either in financial terms directly or indirectly, is absurd. How is the club benefiting from their tenure? Just the club existing is nothing they can claim credit for. 

Really? I'd say it was pretty straightforward but then I suppose that very much depends upon what criteria you choose to use. Since your criteria appear to be purely financial rather than footballing, its no great surprise that we disagree. But even on a purely financial basis they have taken us from the brink of administration to being one of the most financially stable football clubs in the country - in the case of most businesses that would be considered a significant success.

Whatever the merits of the EPL, it is what it is. I'm not in love with it, but it has the best players and best quality of football. Norwich City or any other club is not going to change that. Either you accept it or walk away. As Michael Bailey said last week, Norwich City are trying to run (NCFC) how football clubs were 30 or 40 years ago and that is there way.' 

I'm tempted to say, so what? Isn't that true, pretty much by definition, of the 'top' division in every footballing country so scarely a ringing endorsement of the EPL and actually I'd dispute the 'best quality' tag in the case of the EPL - again depending on your criteria. Of course the EPL has some superb players but sadly almost entirely concentrated within four or five teams so if your quality criteria involves sporting competitiveness, excitement, entertainment etc then the EPL is far from the best. It also scores almost zero on the very direct connection that used to exist between the players and the fans.

IMO the EPL isn't a patch on the First Division that it replaced and whilst I'm not naive enough to think we can turn the clock back thirty or forty years, nor do I think we should meekly accept that the c**p peddled by the EPL is normal, desirable or anywhere near to what elite professional football should and could look like in this country - you only have to look as far as the Bundesliga to see even nowadays there are much better models of running clubs and leagues in which football and fan involvement (experience) are prioritised or at least balanced against the finance.

 

 

 

[Tumbleweed 106]

I agree this time feels more dispiriting. The causes are probably many and varied, not just one thing (although just one DM could have made a difference). But I do feel that the club is just not run very professionally, nice but dim perhaps, who are no threat to Delia and have the same "oh well never mind" attitude. Perhaps all too jolly and nicey nicey. If those issues re POTS are right, then one does wonder about how the bigger issues are managed. All sems rather amateurish. We don't have the most money so must at least get the basics right.