Delia out

[king canary 7,604]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

However, not wanting to attack Delia and wanting change are not mutually exclusive.

Largely this is where I sit and it is a problem.

I believe that fundamentally the only way for the fans to try and push a change of ownership is to make life uncomfortable for the current majority shareholders. That means protests outside the ground, chants aimed specifically at the owners in the ground and generally creating an atmosphere that makes them think 'this isn't something I enjoy any more.' However I don't really want to be involved in hounding out a couple of pensioners who I believe do have the best interests of the club at heart and largely haven't done anything wrong other than not have more money. So I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite- I want change but I'm too squeamish to do the dirty work that is needed to make it happen. I don't think I'm alone in this.

In an ideal world  a change happens before anything gets ugly because the owners decide their time has run its course. That doesn't feel very likely though.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

 

7 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Thing is with our support (esepcially these days) it will always only be a small minority making noise, because that is what our suport is like. The demographic of our support means it does not rear up in the way more volotile fan bases might. Even at the height of the Chase days there were only a few hundred protesting/rioting outside the ground albeit the discontent inside the ground was more audible and obviously the St Andrew's hall meeting was well attended. 

But if you did a poll of ST holders asking who wanst change I think the result would see a majority, I really do. 

The problem with this, Jim, is that 'wanting change' is not a binary option that you can fix with a simple poll. If the appetite for change is strong enough, then any campaign that is transparent, articulate and inclusive – a 'critical friend' to the club rather than a baying mob – will surely snowball sufficiently to take in enough of the 'moderates'.

If the appetite isn't strong enough, and/or the campaign isn't articulated and organised well enough, it will fizzle out. It'll be interesting to see how things develop over the coming months; and with only two months until the Championship season kicks off again, on-field results will as ever be the best barometer as to how the fans are feeling.

[Diane 500]

20 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

 In fact, considering my (our) role is to represent 'all fans', 

With all due respect how can you do that when osp members only engage with fans on the pinkun?

 

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

6 minutes ago, Diane said:

With all due respect how can you do that when osp members only engage with fans on the pinkun?

 

We don't only engage with fans on here, Diane... we actually talk to them in real life, too 🙂

I can't deny that the first year of the panel has been very challenging. Our role and remit keeps changing, where we sit in relation to other fan groups is still far from clear, and our contacts at the club keep changing too (although having Zoe as a board member at our meetings has been a big step in the right direction).

I tend to be more reactive on here in terms of my OSP role; replying to people's comments/concerns rather than going out of my way to try and ask opinion on behalf of the panel (I did that at the start, and it was a bit of a nightmare to be honest). If any NCFC fan wants to speak to me (or any other panel member) as part of the role, I'd be open to it through whatever medium; I'm just not very active on social media, which is where a lot of the chat happens.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Feedthewolf

[lake district canary 4,531]

11 minutes ago, king canary said:

 However I don't really want to be involved in hounding out a couple of pensioners

Leave out the "pensioners" remark please. Plenty of "pensioners" have more about them than people half their age. My mum is 95 and she still as sharp as you could imagine - for someone of any age.

 

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

2 hours ago, Sheva said:

What does Tom bring to the party?

Vol-au-vents?

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

13 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Leave out the "pensioners" remark please. Plenty of "pensioners" have more about them than people half their age. My mum is 95 and she still as sharp as you could imagine - for someone of any age.

 

Can she play defensive midfield?

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,414]

2 hours ago, Inch High aka Inchy.. said:

An elderly club run by elderly owners attracting a large proportion of elderly Delia fans rather than football fans.

We are not an unattractive club to possible new owners with a large fanbase(although a portion of those would follow Delia out of the door) top notch training facilities and an acceptable club owned stadium. Our biggest problem is that Norwich is still viewed as the back of beyond and unattractive to investors. 

What a load of nonsense.

 

[hogesar 9,658]

27 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Leave out the "pensioners" remark please. Plenty of "pensioners" have more about them than people half their age. My mum is 95 and she still as sharp as you could imagine - for someone of any age.

 

I highly doubt @king canary meant it offensively - he just meant from a self-moralistic point of view getting abusive / protesting against two elderly people with the club at heart probably doesn't sit right with him.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

46 minutes ago, king canary said:

Largely this is where I sit and it is a problem.

I believe that fundamentally the only way for the fans to try and push a change of ownership is to make life uncomfortable for the current majority shareholders. That means protests outside the ground, chants aimed specifically at the owners in the ground and generally creating an atmosphere that makes them think 'this isn't something I enjoy any more.' However I don't really want to be involved in hounding out a couple of pensioners who I believe do have the best interests of the club at heart and largely haven't done anything wrong other than not have more money. So I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite- I want change but I'm too squeamish to do the dirty work that is needed to make it happen. I don't think I'm alone in this.

In an ideal world  a change happens before anything gets ugly because the owners decide their time has run its course. That doesn't feel very likely though.

I agree - it is a problem because we know that if they don't get grief, they think everything is ok and they don't act. And yet people genuinely don't want to have to give them grief. So you just get this "drift" where people get more and more disillusioned and in some cases start to drift away whilst the owners think everything is hunky dory except for the "usual" minority of moaners. 

[Mello Yello 2,289]

Just 10 weeks until we start all over again....I don't personally foresee any major changes at Board level....

Hope I'm wrong?.... 

[shefcanary 2,402]

I'll repost something I have posted elsewhere, as just as relevant to this thread:

Can I just point out here that the potential for Smith & Jones selling their shares in the club in the next 12 months, even if they wanted to, would be a miracle of fantastic proportions to actually take place and even if that miracle took place, it would take a long time.  With their 51% holding, Smith & Jones have effectively created a community owned club (I know it doesn't feel like it, but it is a 50 +1 model except it is in their favour, not the fans).  Any sale of their shares would first have to be offered to the other 3,000 plus shareholders at the same price offered to Smith & Jones; as I have said before this is an expensive transaction because of all the legal and financial due diligence that would be done in a semi-public manner. 

In addition, to attract a potential investor, there has to be a good reason for investing.  As others have noted, the finances of the club are in reasonably good state, so nothing to be gained as would be in a distressed sale - any investor would have to buy top dollar.  So that leaves the only potential being a rich fan of the club.

From what I can gather (and forgive me I am a Canary exile so not close to local personalities at the club) there is no obvious billionaire who has a pile of free cash and is a fan of the club.  So this leads to it having to be a consortium of some kind.  This again would take some time to build and would need good leadership and probably a very high media profile. I have suggested in the past someone like Jake Humphries would be the sort of person who could achieve this, as he would not scare Smith & Jones off whilst he negotiated all this.  Indeed Smith & Jones would need to be part of the consortia probably to make it effective, it may sound counter-intuitive but I think if they retained some involvement it might accelerate things.  

So whilst it may seem easy to just say the resolution of the current problems is for Smith & Jones to sell up, it ain't as easy as that! 

From my perspective, by all means sow the seeds of a new consortia, but much more importantly Smith & jones need to be persuaded to re-vamp corporate governance at the club and appoint an "independent" Chair and a strong CEO.  That will kick start the clear out of: the current malaise at the club; the daft commercial mistakes; the poor external communication; the stasis caused by executive conflict of interests; the run of poor player recruitment and finally (but most importantly) poor performance on the pitch.

Edited May 23, 2022 by shefcanary

[king canary 7,604]

17 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I highly doubt @king canary meant it offensively - he just meant from a self-moralistic point of view getting abusive / protesting against two elderly people with the club at heart probably doesn't sit right with him.

Yeah, not sure why this attracted LDC's ire. I mentioned thier age because it plays into why I think the way I do- I'd much more comfortable with protests and the similar if we were owned by someone like Mike Ashley for instance.

[lake district canary 4,531]

24 minutes ago, hogesar said:

52 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Leave out the "pensioners" remark please. Plenty of "pensioners" have more about them than people half their age. My mum is 95 and she still as sharp as you could imagine - for someone of any age.

 

I highly doubt @king canary meant it offensively - he just meant from a self-moralistic point of view getting abusive / protesting against two elderly people with the club at heart probably doesn't sit right with him.

But you're doing it too - whenever you label someone, you are making presumptions - "elderly" or "pensioners"......the presumption here is clearly "these are old people" - and as I said, age is nothing to do with it. If you have the mind for it, the health and the appetite for it, a 90 year old can have the gumption, desire and capability of a thirty year old.  Only DS and MJW will know when or if they should step down and if they have the desire to carry on. That should be respected on it's own merits, not disrespected just because they are a certain age. 

[hogesar 9,658]

Just now, lake district canary said:

But you're doing it too - whenever you label someone, you are making presumptions - "elderly" or "pensioners"......the presumption here is clearly "these are old people" - and as I said, age is nothing to do with it. If you have the mind for it, the health and the appetite for it, a 90 year old can have the gumption, desire and capability of a thirty year old.  Only DS and MJW will know when or if they should step down and if they have the desire to carry on. That should be respected on it's own merits, not disrespected just because they are a certain age. 

I'm making a presumption they're old, because they are old. I've not said that means they can't run the club.

[Naturalcynic 629]

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

For now the promise is more important than the mechanics of how, but two possibilities occur to me. One is a vote by all shareholders, all season ticket holders and all employees. The other would be for the fans to subcontract the decision to a group of four or five respected supporters, one of whom would be a financial expert able to assess the viability of the offer.

Do you mean Badger?

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Leave out the "pensioners" remark please. Plenty of "pensioners" have more about them than people half their age. My mum is 95 and she still as sharp as you could imagine - for someone of any age.

 

Bit of an overreaction there LDC

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

1 minute ago, Naturalcynic said:

Do you mean Badger?

At a pinch, I suppose, if I'm not available...🤓

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

I'm making a presumption they're old, because they are old. I've not said that means they can't run the club.

As soon as you put the word "elderly" in, you are suggesting frailties. Say they are 80 years old, but don't say they are pensioners or elderly, both of which are just labelling.  Age is just a number.  Are you young because you are 25? 35? 45? Are you old because you are 60? 70? 80? It's all relative.

[king canary 7,604]

6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

As soon as you put the word "elderly" in, you are suggesting frailties. Say they are 80 years old, but don't say they are pensioners or elderly, both of which are just labelling.  Age is just a number.  Are you young because you are 25? 35? 45? Are you old because you are 60? 70? 80? It's all relative.

Wtf is going on here?

Are you old because you're 80? Yes, yes you are.

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Wtf is going on here?

Are you old because you're 80? Yes, yes you are.

What I was asking is where do you put the line of being old - 60, 70, or 80...or what? 

[Greavsy 2,413]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Wtf is going on here?

Are you old because you're 80? Yes, yes you are.

The 80 year old wouldn't be old in LDC's mums eyes as she has 15 years on them. Its all relative, as has been said before. 

[king canary 7,604]

10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

What I was asking is where do you put the line of being old - 60, 70, or 80...or what? 

Well you actually took issue with the term 'pensioners' which isn't really subjective is it? You get your state pension when you cross a certain age which Delia & MWJ have certainly done.

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,414]

Does anybody really think that the board are happy with the way this season has gone. I suspect the answer is NO.

Do you think that they will do something to change the situation. I suspect the answer is YES.

Do we know what those changes might look like. No we don't. Not yet.

[hogesar 9,658]

39 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

As soon as you put the word "elderly" in, you are suggesting frailties. Say they are 80 years old, but don't say they are pensioners or elderly, both of which are just labelling.  Age is just a number.  Are you young because you are 25? 35? 45? Are you old because you are 60? 70? 80? It's all relative.

Relatively speaking, 60 is old in my book. But that's because it's twice my age, and my parent's age.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

50 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

But you're doing it too - whenever you label someone, you are making presumptions - "elderly" or "pensioners"......the presumption here is clearly "these are old people" - and as I said, age is nothing to do with it. If you have the mind for it, the health and the appetite for it, a 90 year old can have the gumption, desire and capability of a thirty year old.  Only DS and MJW will know when or if they should step down and if they have the desire to carry on. That should be respected on it's own merits, not disrespected just because they are a certain age. 

He's not disrespecting it. He's saying he's more reluctant to give them abuse because they are older. By your logic, however, presumably they are fair game?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Collating many of thoughts these couple of days has shown me that the is  a large groundswell for change. Not always personnel but change of attitude. From everyone associated with the club including supporters.

There doesn't appear to be the same confidence now as there was two years ago that we would be successful the following season. There is less confidence in the coach and controversy with the Sporting Director. And a growing number who feel now is the time for a change of ownership. And that protest would be supported if organised.

 

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,414]

15 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Relatively speaking, 60 is old in my book. But that's because it's twice my age, and my parent's age.

😮

[lake district canary 4,531]

34 minutes ago, king canary said:

Well you actually took issue with the term 'pensioners' which isn't really subjective is it? You get your state pension when you cross a certain age which Delia & MWJ have certainly done.

Yes. Describing someone as a pensioner, while may be accurate in one sense, in another sense is derogartory......it all depends on the context it is being used.  The fact that DS and MJW are pensioners is irrelevant to them being owners/custodians of a football club. 

 

[hogesar 9,658]

3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Collating many of thoughts these couple of days has shown me that the is  a large groundswell for change. Not always personnel but change of attitude. From everyone associated with the club including supporters.

There doesn't appear to be the same confidence now as there was two years ago that we would be successful the following season. There is less confidence in the coach and controversy with the Sporting Director. And a growing number who feel now is the time for a change of ownership. And that protest would be supported if organised.

 

I think the board, or the clubs management structure, needs freshening up. @sheffcanary has made very good points for a while now in regards to corporate governance that I personally think is more important than the chase for rich new owners.