Released players announcement

[king canary 7,580]

31 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

That was the..... "buy 2 highly rated teens with first team experience for seven figure sums and develop them into first team players" strategy of Webber's predecessor wasn't it? 

Lets not forget that Webber inherited Godfrey and Maddison (who were signed in the same window for a combined £5m).

Yep exactly.

At some point Webber needs one of these 'punt' players to either play a few games for us or go for a fee.

Edited May 20, 2022 by king canary

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

Drmic? Leaving us? 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Terminally Yellow

[shefcanary 2,389]

Wolfie's analysis shows after accounting for these departures there are still 42 contracted players with first team experience.  That's before the U23's who haven't yet stepped up!  Going into a transfer window that still seems a large squad to have, so plenty of scope for Webber (or Adams or Deano) to wheel and deal with.  But if we don't get that CDM (or two) then all hell breaks loose.  

[spencer 1970 207]

Shame, but understadable re- Rupp. He could look like a world-beater at times when played in his correct position but never really got a decent run for a plethora of reasons. The Forest away game last season was a particular gem for him, he looked Iniesta-ish. Thanks Lukas.

Now the coverted no'7 shirt is free for next season. Is Mark Barham still around?

[HazzaJet 252]

We all knew Drmic would go, spent the last two seasons out on loan to see off his contract without us having to pay full wages for him. Not surprised to see Oxborough go either - has been going out on loan for several seasons but has had each one wrecked by injury. Rupp is debatable, as he is decent at Championship level but I guess it was probably down to the fact that he is now 31 and rather injury prone

[daly 500]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Sadly you just cant keep a player on who's out for two thirds of a season with hamstring injuries. Need to find another Oliver Skipp for next season

Pity we couldn’t find one for this season 

[priceyrice 123]

2 hours ago, Big O said:

I think the ‘buy a bunch of teens and loan them out’ model was what bought Ben Godfrey to the club. Given the value he went for, I think it probably covers the collective failures 

Purchased by the McNally regime not Webber I believe. 

 

Apologies, having read the full thread I see that this was already pointed out. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by priceyrice

[DanTheMan 2]

The only reason to keep Rupp would have been if he was going to be first choice next season, he wasn’t and unfortunately given his recent run of injuries was unlikely to be available for chunks of the reason. Released with thanks for his service.

On the youngsters - McAlear is an odd one as he was making the bench in the Championship season and has had a decent loan. I suspect he wanted to stay in Scotland and it is a case of mutual consent. Oxborough was unlucky to lose a season but is now too old for U23s and probably got overtaken by Barden & McCracken. He needed to move.

[Nora's Ghost 157]

3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Not looking great for Aston Oxborough is it, was highly thought of but is now 24 years old and hasn't played a professional game.

King's Lynn perhaps? Some players do work their way back up.

We've had enough goakeepers to make up a full team. Maybe Webber was planning on breeding with them.

[Monty13 2,229]

4 hours ago, king canary said:

Rupp makes sense due to age and injuries but we are awfully light in central midfield again with him, Gilmour and Normann all heading out. I wonder if they feel Gibbs is ready to step up?

Shame about McAlear, another failure of this 'buy a bunch of teens and loan them out' model. Reportedly cost us £250k, now off on a free.

I’m actually surprised he played that many times in 2.5 years, thought he was injured more to be honest.

[Monty13 2,229]

3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

That was the..... "buy 2 highly rated teens with first team experience for seven figure sums and develop them into first team players" strategy of Webber's predecessor wasn't it? 

Lets not forget that Webber inherited Godfrey and Maddison (who were signed in the same window for a combined £5m).

That can’t be right, I thought the previous regime pissed the money up the wall?

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,736]

4 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

No we don't, we need to stop using loan players to fill crucial areas of the pitch and finally find a permanent defensive midfielder. 

Webber has been here 5 years, he inherited Tettey. When is he going to purchase a defensive midfielder? 

I didnt say anything about it being a loan...just that we need someone to do the Skipp role

[Move Klose 303]

5 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Not looking great for Aston Oxborough is it, was highly thought of but is now 24 years old and hasn't played a professional game.

King's Lynn perhaps? Some players do work their way back up.

Quite a bit of interest from the EFL supposedly.

[Icecream Snow 761]

Reece McAlear just scored twice to level the Scottish playoff game. Won't be short of suitors.

[chicken 2,604]

7 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

We were in discussions with Rupp, looks like we weren't able to reach an agreement. 

Part of me wonders if that might have been before more injuries again. And the way things turned this season, perhaps with the departure of Farke too. Or possibly just the role seen for him. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,782]

I think the decision to release Rupp is the right one. Most of us seem in agreement that midfield is the area that needs the most surgery and with McLean, Lees-Melou and Sorensen all likely to be here next season, keeping Rupp too would leave little room for manoeuvre. Besides, he was decent at Championship level but not exactly a standout, and isn't getting any younger. 

The only one I'm slightly surprised about is McAlear, as he had apparently been impressing out on loan. Maybe could've been worth another couple of years with a League One loan next season to assess him in English football, but I'll trust the club's judgement.

[Rottingdean canary 117]

Could we do with a goalscoring midfielder?  Reece McAlear's two great strikes this evening in the Scotish play-offs in link below.  Not great timing for us to announce we've released him.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football

[Kingston Yellow 220]

6 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

That's the whole point. It only takes one success to fund the strategy for a couple of years or more. And we effectively 'turned' Maddison for a giant profit, even though the initial outlay was pretty big (around £3m IIRC?).

Neither Maddison or Godfrey were acquired on the current Team’s watch. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

17 minutes ago, Rottingdean canary said:

Could we do with a goalscoring midfielder?  Reece McAlear's two great strikes this evening in the Scotish play-offs in link below.  Not great timing for us to announce we've released him.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football

We also moan about not having enough athleticism throughout the team, and he's a 6ft 2" tall well built box-to-box midfielder who at 20 potentially has one final late growth spurt in him.

That said, the Scottish Championship is an appallingly low standard of football compared with our current status in the game, we're talking Conference National standard football. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[chicken 2,604]

5 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

We also moan about not having enough athleticism throughout the team, and he's a 6ft 2" tall box-to-box midfielder who at 20 potentially has one final late growth spurt in him.

That said, the Scottish Championship is an appallingly low standard of football, we're talking Conference National standard football, if one of our young players didn't impress at that level then you'd probably just tell them to hang their boots up and learn a trade.

Yeah... I was expecting something impressive in those highlights. Nope, league 1 at best... some truly awful defending. He took his goals really well, and no doubt he has a better future than the Scottish Championship. Not sure you can base a lot on those highlights though and you would have to hope that some of these players being released is that they have other ideas for players coming through behind them or that are in the process of being brought in.

They don't all work out. As you said before Oxborough is 24, we had an option of a further year but clearly didn't take up on it. He's only 2 years behind Gunn and you can't see him getting past him, and he has been kept out of the No.3 slot by a now truly veteran Mcgovern.

20 is a difficult one. I think by then they can usually tell if a player is going to be able to be dropped straight into the level we are playing at or if they are going to need some years of EFL football to build them up to it. Much like Toffolo who looked incredibly composed in the youth FA cup but was deemed surplus to our requirements.

There always seems to be one or two of these players every summer that fans feel could be good enough but then never quite make it at the level we are at at the time or they float around the lower tiers or fall off the radar altogether. Does anyone remember Danny Crow? I remember a good number of people saying how we were mugs to let him go and that he'd come back to haunt us! 

[Mason 47 1,373]

Could be McAlear himself has had a taste of first-team football and sees a better chance for his prospects playing week-in week-out rather than on loan/ warming our bench.

I can remember a few years ago we were bemoaning how Cameron McGeehan for Barnsley looked like the goalscoring midfielder we always needed, mind.

[chicken 2,604]

7 hours ago, king canary said:

Yep exactly.

At some point Webber needs one of these 'punt' players to either play a few games for us or go for a fee.

I get the "inherited" argument but I do think it's fair to say that it was under Farke and Webber, though who is truly responsible for that we'll never know, that those two were really given a go in the first team. Lets not forget, Farke turned Godfrey into a CB which in turn seemed to turn him from a DM for Rotherham in L1 to a CB in the premier league for a "top side". One could argue the same about Maddison after being loaned to Scotland.

I think it's fair to say that they have brought through more youth than we have seen in quite some time. Even the Murphy's appeared to be trusted with more game time. Amusingly a fair few people on here were turning their noses up at Josh on a free this summer had he not extended his contract...

I get that they were not 100% the people that brought these players to the club, but they are a very large part of the reason that the youngsters that play for us are doing so.

I would also throw in another factor. Something an ex Norwich City academy player and now work colleague told me about his experiences. He used to talk to me about how the academy coaches and system sometimes work. As part of this he reflected that he knew at the time he wasn't as good as some of the other players around him, and even spoke to the coaches about it. He was told that what he did he did well and that allowed the other players to do what they did best. In his own words, he recognised that it was about personalities and ensuring that the players with real talent were in teams that allowed them to play, which means the right balance, the right players around them. In his case, he communicated well with a player that could be a bit difficult during games, he helped to keep him focused which in turn ensured this player had the best chance of improving. I have no idea who the other player was, and they'd all be in their late 30's now.

Anyway, back to the point... Idah, Omobamidele, Aarons, Lewis, Cantwell and now Rowe, Springett with Gibbs, Tomkinson and Kamara training with the first team and having been on the bench, travelled with the matchday squad this season. Lets also not forget Mumba who looks decent and Josh Martin who are both out on loan, though one looking more certain of having a good future.

Then there is the likes of Famewo who has a fee already agreed I believe. Bushiri, Dennis, Dickson-Peters, Soto, Omotoye, Adshead who may yet bring in money or make appearances for the first team.

[repman 634]

54 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Could be McAlear himself has had a taste of first-team football and sees a better chance for his prospects playing week-in week-out rather than on loan/ warming our bench.

I can remember a few years ago we were bemoaning how Cameron McGeehan for Barnsley looked like the goalscoring midfielder we always needed, mind.

It's more likely this imo, it's all well and good stockpiling young players and either loaning them to other clubs or keeping them in your under 23s but eventually if they don't get a shot they'll try their luck elsewhere. Just look at how many young players have left Chelsea over the past few years and subsequently proven themselves as good enough.

[Yellow Wal 314]

9 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

Could be McAlear himself has had a taste of first-team football and sees a better chance for his prospects playing week-in week-out rather than on loan/ warming our bench.

I can remember a few years ago we were bemoaning how Cameron McGeehan for Barnsley looked like the goalscoring midfielder we always needed, mind.

Perhaps if there were smaller match day squads more players would want meaningful involvement and not be satisfied warming benches. Football is about playing the game.  Nobody wants to be a substitute. This is one of the main reasons for the decline of adult grassroots football. Who wants to travel 40 miles to stand in the rain watching others play?

[FenwayFrank 2,457]

26 minutes ago, Yellow Wal said:

Nobody wants to be a substitute. This is one of the main reasons for the decline of adult grassroots football. Who wants to travel 40 miles to stand in the rain watching others play?

This is where a club like Dereham will now have problems as the FA have moved them to the Northern League Midlands Division. They’ve got trips to Sutton Coldfield  and Stamford to look forward to, takes a lot of commitment to want to do that, particularly if as you say, you spend 90 minutes sitting on the bench 

[FenwayFrank 2,457]

9 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

I can remember a few years ago we were bemoaning how Cameron McGeehan for Barnsley looked like the goalscoring midfielder we always needed, mind.

Had quick google, he’s now playing in the Belgian first division 

[Yellow Wal 314]

5 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

This is where a club like Dereham will now have problems as the FA have moved them to the Northern League Midlands Division. They’ve got trips to Sutton Coldfield  and Stamford to look forward to, takes a lot of commitment to want to do that, particularly if as you say, you spend 90 minutes sitting on the bench 

The standard that Dereham are in could mean they get takers but it could demoralise many younger players, and no doubt they will be used to fill the bench as a lower substitute.  It doesn't take much sometimes for youngsters to fall out of love with the game.

Think what it is like for the lower leagues of the Anglian Combination where substitutes have perhaps 70 mile round trips for 10 minutes football if they are lucky. 

[FenwayFrank 2,457]

Dereham play Mulbarton in the Norfolk senior cup final at Carrow Road Monday night if anyone wants to come along

[sgncfc 1,223]

McAlear and Glenn Middleton the standouts in that game - both ones that got away? Don't think either are anywhere near Champs level at the moment.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

11 hours ago, Kingston Yellow said:

Neither Maddison or Godfrey were acquired on the current Team’s watch. 

Yes, I know that. But their sales still funded that strategy, which started under McNally and was continued under Webber.

There are various ways that you can 'turn' players, any of which will continue to fund the overarching strategy if they work out. There's our own Academy products who have come up through the age groups (Morris, Cantwell, the Murphy twins), kids poached from smaller English academies (Aarons, Lewis), players signed from outside the UK at a young age (Idah, Omobamidele, a couple of Icelandic kids that didn't amount to anything), young professionals signed from lower-league clubs (Redmond, Godfrey, Maddison) and young professionals signed from abroad (Buendia, Tzolis).

Add up the money we got for Lewis, Redmond, the Murphys, Godfrey, Maddison and Buendia over the past five years, and you're looking at around £130m by my calculations (plus you'd imagine at least another £20m for Aarons if he leaves this summer).

For a club of our means, we absolutely have to persevere with this strategy. There will always be more misses than hits – the problem right now is that Webber's latest batch of recruitment looks unlikely to even hold its value, let alone accumulate (with the possible exception of Rashica). Fingers crossed we can either unearth a couple more gems this summer, or that some of the latest batch of Academy graduates (Omobamidele, Rowe, Springett, Tomkinson) blossom into real stars.