Jake Daniels Blackpool

[Mello Yello 2,287]

15 minutes ago, The Bristol Nest said:

Just looked it up. It was Moses.

A proper basket case....

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

Full credit to him and a shame its taken so long. I hope he opens the door for many others.
Will be good to hopefully see him next year at Carrow Road, although i hope he has a stinker of a game against us! 🙂

Also a shame people have taken this thread to talk about the oppression of Christianity and similar garbage, that's akin to screaming all lives matter. Religion should have nothing to do with this conversation as saying you have a problem with someone or something because its written in a work of fiction should remain locked in the 18th century and before. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

18th century - you display much ignorance here methinks 
 

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

25 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

18th century - you display much ignorance here methinks 
 

 

Not as ignorant as talking about Christians as oppressed. 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Nexus_Canary

[A Load of Squit 5,142]

The most remarkable thing in this story is that there have been thousands of comments & tweets in the media and no-one has called him Jack.

 

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I’m just saying a person’s bedroom life, in my opinion, is the least interesting thing about them.

I think you and I know different people.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48146305.amp
 

Christians are the most persecuted group- just research it. We hear next to nothing of the appalling treatment they suffer, there is a media whitewash. This doesn’t mean lgbt prejudice doesn’t matter - it does. 
 

but ask any kid which would be harder to admit to in school today. Being Christian or gay? You will be surprised by the answer 

You missed the key point in my comment "IN THIS COUNTRY".

Persecution of Christians in certain countries (where homosexuality is punishable by death / imprisonment) is despicable & horrendous. In this Country there is no persecution of Christians and it's not on the rise unlike attacks on the LGBTQ+ community.

Being Christian doesn't get you beaten up in the UK in 2022. I think most school kids just want a peaceful happy life without someone telling them, their god, thinks they are "wrong"

[Naturalcynic 629]

1 hour ago, GenerationA47 said:

All the suppressed natural emotion will start bubbling up once Natural cynic and Nora’s ghost forget where they are & start bantering in Polari 

Fantabulosa!

[Captain Holt 520]

4 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Firstly arguing that animals do something tells is nothing. Dogs sniff each other’s bums in the street as a greeting- does this make it acceptable for us?! Humans have always been held to be above animals in the created order and therefore answerable to a higher form of morality. 
 

secondly, leaving aside the rude and contemptuous manner in which you treat Christian’s here (remind me who  the bigots are?) - it simply won’t do to claim a moral high ground where truth is concerned and dismiss the people you disagree with as ignorant. 
 

Now you might not like or subscribe to the traditional Christian/ biblical view that sex should never be divorced from its procreative purpose. But to claim that view is homophobic is unfair. After all it makes no particular demands on gay people that it doesn’t also make of any single straight Christian- such as widows for example. 
 

And however much people dislike it an argument can be made as regards the natural law. Put bluntly God, if He exists, created each person with precisely one half of a working reproductive system. Putting the same halves together does not produce life. Ergo it is logical and fair to assume the intended purpose is for men and women to mate. That isn’t hate speech it is naturally observable fact. 
 

The bible also holds that everyone should be treated with love and respect. So here Christian’s might argue - being gay is absolutely fine with God but that this doesn’t automatically mean a green moral light for all and any sexual behaviour. Again you are free to disagree but it isn’t fair to say such a view is hateful. The exact same advice is given to straight people. 

Believe it or not truths about human sexuality did not begin with the sexual revolution of the 1960s. That revolution means most people today think they primary purpose of sex is self fulfilment and enjoyment. But most previous generations, especially before the advent of contraception, disagreed. They saw the prime purpose as family life. 
 

so Christian’s come at the whole thing from a very different, and often challenging, angle. It does not make them haters. And it is dishonest when the media and comments like yours make out it does. 
 

 

 

 

God isn't real mate and they should all grow up.

[Naturalcynic 629]

1 minute ago, Captain Holt said:

God isn't real mate and they should all grow up.

Whether you’re right or not, why is your religiophobic assertion any more acceptable than casual homophobia?  

[Mello Yello 2,287]

10 minutes ago, Captain Holt said:

God isn't real mate and they should all grow up.

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

Still no evidence of this "gay ideology". Probably because it's a strawman.

[GenerationA47 750]

47 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Whether you’re right or not, why is your religiophobic assertion any more acceptable than casual homophobia?  

Religious belief is (well, in secular parts of the world at least...) a personal choice and a philosophical position, not an existential unchangeable characteristic. An obvious difference from being gay, minority ethnic, disabled etc. Organised religion is also still closely associated with social and political power, unlike those minorities.

Also, popular theistic religions don’t hold back from ridiculing non/other-believers themselves, in fact their most hallowed teachings reserve special kinds of opprobrium for heretics and infidels. The God(s) can take a bit of robust discourse back.
 

Let the insults fly freely.*

 

 

*within forum rules

[Haus 259]

1 hour ago, Captain Holt said:

God isn't real mate and they should all grow up.

Yeah, if one person believes in an imaginary magic man hes mentally ill, if thousands do it its religion and somehow normalised 

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

20 minutes ago, GenerationA47 said:

Religious belief is (well, in secular parts of the world at least...) a personal choice and a philosophical position, not an existential unchangeable characteristic. An obvious difference from being gay, minority ethnic, disabled etc. Organised religion is also still closely associated with social and political power, unlike those minorities.

Also, popular theistic religions don’t hold back from ridiculing non/other-believers themselves, in fact their most hallowed teachings reserve special kinds of opprobrium for heretics and infidels. The God(s) can take a bit of robust discourse back.
 

Let the insults fly freely.*

 

 

*within forum rules

 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

Nice of people to demonstrate the very point I was making regarding bigotry towards religion -

first let’s tackle the insulting idea that theism means ‘believing in an imaginary magic man’ . Go read the deep philosophical arguments for the existence of God in Plato, Aristotle, Anselm, Augustine etc and then come back to me. To reduce the massive intellectual contribution of Christian thinking in the development of the West to such a snide remark is offensive and dumb. 
 

Then the completely unreasonable cartoon that suggests bashing that never takes place justifies breaking the cross. Not exactly tolerant or inclusive is it? 

[Robert N. LiM 4,254]

7 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

the battle was won years ago

If this were true there'd be loads of out gay footballers. Yes, things are way better, but there's still a long way to go in some areas of society, professional football being an obvious example. Good on Jake Daniels for doing this: hopefully it's an important first step in making it a genuine non-issue.

[Robert N. LiM 4,254]

6 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

though I will concede working class football culture might be behind the curve a bit and in need of more work. In that regard this might be helpful. 

Good to see you conceding this - hadn't seen it before I posted my previous reply.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Good to see you conceding this - hadn't seen it before I posted my previous reply.

I totally concede that. What I struggle with is the idea of ‘bravely’ coming out when the response had been adulation of media, front covers of newspapers, the entire football world now cheering you and a personal message of support from Prince William. Hardly seems that hated does he?! Maybe a few moronic fans but strikes me the battle is definitely won and that at some point soon the victim hood needs dropping. That would actually be a positive as others have stated- a step forward

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

You mean the pseudo-victimhood that Christians get flak (when this is clearly not the case in Western Europe, but is a grave problem in northern and central Africa, as well as in large swathes of Asia - I wouldn't be entirely surprised if most of those countries were also pretty "anti-gay" either - could be an interesting correlation exercise), as shown in the link re. persecution I winged in? It looks similar to the laughable claims of anti-Semitism bandied around by the Netanyahu governments when trying to justify more theft of Palestinian land.

Think your stance on the cartoon is literal and unreasonable. It's obvious that it clearly lets fly at those who readily criticise non-believers using "religion" as their foundation, but hate copping the same back.

Edited May 17, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

You mean the pseudo-victimhood that Christians get flak (when this is clearly not the case in Western Europe, but is a grave problem in northern and central Africa, as well as in large swathes of Asia - I wouldn't be entirely surprised if most of those countries were also pretty "anti-gay" either - could be an interesting correlation exercise), as shown in the link re. persecution I winged in? It looks similar to the laughable claims of anti-Semitism bandied around by the Netanyahu governments when trying to justify more theft of Palestinian land.

Think your stance on the cartoon is literal and unreasonable. It's obvious that it clearly lets fly at those who readily criticise non-believers using "religion" as their foundation, but hate copping the same back.

But Christian’s don’t get a free ride in the west. There are so many cases of people sacked for being Christian- from nurses refusing to perform abortion to bakers who didn’t want to be compelled to celebrate gay marriage. Most traditional Christian children report being discriminated against at school by staff as well as fellow pupils. Just look at this thread- far, far more hostility shown to Christianity - views mocked, sneered at, etc .

in the world, as you stare, it’s far worse. A full blown persecution but not reported in western press. Which itself says something. Just saying…

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

Also I agree with your picture above. I wouldn’t dream of forcing gay people to become Christian. But why doesn’t it work the other way around? Today Christians must endorse homosexuality or be hammered. Tolerance can’t be a one way street 

[Robert N. LiM 4,254]

7 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

What I struggle with is the idea of ‘bravely’ coming out

Well, I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't have fancied details of my personal life being on the front page of the Sun when I was 17 (or indeed now). As far as I'm concerned it's a brave thing to do. I'm sure Daniels would much prefer to just be able to get on with his life, as straight footballers can do now (just think about how many footballers' relationships you know about - they're all 'out' - why shouldn't he be the same?). 

Given he's the first since Fashanu (in very different circumstances) - it's natural there should be some attention. From my point of view, I want to join the chorus of support and celebration so that the homophobes know they're in the minority. If you really believe this:

15 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Maybe a few moronic fans

then the best thing you can do is join that chorus of support, rather than muddying the waters like this:

16 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

at some point soon the victim hood needs dropping

Surely that's the best way of reaching the point (which I think we both agree should and will be soon) where gay male footballers can live their lives openly, just like straight footballers do.

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

13 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

But Christian’s don’t get a free ride in the west. There are so many cases of people sacked for being Christian- from nurses refusing to perform abortion to bakers who didn’t want to be compelled to celebrate gay marriage. Most traditional Christian children report being discriminated against at school by staff as well as fellow pupils. Just look at this thread- far, far more hostility shown to Christianity - views mocked, sneered at, etc .

in the world, as you stare, it’s far worse. A full blown persecution but not reported in western press. Which itself says something. Just saying…

If you can't do an abortion due to your religious beliefs, you're not fit to be a nurse as you are rendered incompetent. You literally cannot do your job. Same applies to any Muslim who complains they can't handle alcohol at a checkout, so they're incompetent in terms of working on tills. 

Speaking of incompetence, here's one in Norwich. He wouldn't (basically, couldn't) drive the bus due to his offence taken by a Pride flag.

Norwich bus driver suspended after he 'refused' to drive Pride bus - BBC News

I wouldn't mind seeing general statistical evidence on this re. the UK alone. I suspect there are some isolated cases but would prefer to see more general trends. We already know that there's an increase in hate crimes against LBGTQ over the past few years. As for persecution in other countries, I wouldn't expect too much reporting on it as it's not in Europe. Muslims and Christians alike are under the cosh in India under Modi's brand of Hindi authoritanism/nationalism right now, but there's not much written about that at all over here.

Many Christians seem to endorse homosexuality. Heck, David Cameron famously said it was his tolerance through his own Christian belief that made him believe that gay marriage legalisation is correct.

Your final question on the separate post is essentially Karl Pöpper's tolerance paradox, rehashed.

Edited May 17, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[Duncan Edwards 2,227]

12 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

But Christian’s don’t get a free ride in the west. There are so many cases of people sacked for being Christian- from nurses refusing to perform abortion to bakers who didn’t want to be compelled to celebrate gay marriage. Most traditional Christian children report being discriminated against at school by staff as well as fellow pupils. Just look at this thread- far, far more hostility shown to Christianity - views mocked, sneered at, etc .

in the world, as you stare, it’s far worse. A full blown persecution but not reported in western press. Which itself says something. Just saying…

Give over 😂

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

Not in Europe? Hundreds of churches vandalised in France over recent months, arson attack on major Cathedral and more than one priest stabbed to death. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

https://ionainstitute.ie/europes-growing-anti-christian-intolerance-problem/
 

https://catholicherald.co.uk/attacks-against-european-christians-soar-by-70-per-cent-in-just-a-year/

 

https://rcpolitics.org/much-work-to-be-done-as-uk-government-admits-failing-to-give-it-the-attention-it-deserves/

[Naturalcynic 629]

3 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Not in Europe? Hundreds of churches vandalised in France over recent months, arson attack on major Cathedral and more than one priest stabbed to death. 

Sadly Christianophobia seems to be widely tolerated, and indeed applauded, by many in the West.  Anti-semitism is also a recurring problem by those of certain political views, whereas Islamophobia is roundly condemned (rightly) by those very same people.   Clear double standards, and I speak as an agnostic bordering on atheist.

[canarydan23 4,060]

15 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

(basically, couldn't)

That's going to need some elaboration. Did he have some medical ailment where the sight of a rainbow flag impairs his vision or something?

Edited May 17, 2022 by canarydan23

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

9 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

https://ionainstitute.ie/europes-growing-anti-christian-intolerance-problem/
 

https://catholicherald.co.uk/attacks-against-european-christians-soar-by-70-per-cent-in-just-a-year/

 

https://rcpolitics.org/much-work-to-be-done-as-uk-government-admits-failing-to-give-it-the-attention-it-deserves/

Last link pretty much focuses on cases outside Europe. The middle one seems to miss that Islamphobic matters seem to have also risen in the meantime so whilst I'll accept that there is an issue there, to say it's jsut amongst Christians is disingenuous. There might be an argument that there is an "anti-fundamentalist Abrahamic religion problem", especially with desecration of buildings / defamation of cemeteries etc. As for the Iona one, I think it grievously misunderstands the notion of free speech, but the Iona Institute is known for being pretty damned fundamentalist.

6 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

That's going to need some elaboration. Did he have some medical ailment where the site of a rainbow flag impairs his vision or something?

No, he just didn't like the flag and said he wouldn't drive it, so waited for a replacement driver (as per the link I enclosed). In other words, he couldn't drive it. In other words, he couldn't do his job.
 

Edited May 17, 2022 by TheGunnShow