Anybody left that wants Webber to stay?

[norfolkngood 1,086]

he has to go !!

 i think it is a case of right time right place and right manager right team around him made him look really good ,

yes he did great things off the field but that was made a whole lot easier by success on the pitch 

of course he got Farke here which was a master stroke

But take Kieran scott and Farke away and it falls to bits 

 

[Mason 47 1,379]

36 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I personally don't find it too much to ask that paying customers have a sense that the team on the pitch is fully committed and giving 100% every week, and recently I don't feel like this has been the case.

I don't think its unreasonable for fans to point out that this Premier League campaign has been less successful than our previous Premier League campaign, despite a substantial net transfer spend this summer and almost none the previous campaign. We've spent money to go backwards on the pitch.

When looking to apportion blame and responsibility for both of these failings, its difficult to look beyond Webber. 

Asking for: 1). Some passion and desire, and 2). Some sort of progress on the quality of the output on the pitch, I don't think those are unrealistic or unfair expectations. 

Grr snarl don't disagree with me!

I don't disagree with you, this season has been bad and we've looked sadly way off of competing. There are certain mitigating factors last summer,  but our recruitment plan totally failed. Unfortunately there is no exact and obvious plan that guarantees success in football recruitment. We could have spent 4x as much, every player could be a heart-on-sleeve yellow-blooded warrior, and still finish 20th (with huge outgoing we could no longer cover). Did I expect better of our recruitment? Absolutely. Is it worth ripping out the entire management structure of the club for a bad season? Don't be daft.

If we ensure up languishing in mid table with no money and a **** squad for the next few years, sure, he's failed to progress us and should be given his marching orders. But football is an Infinite Game; just because we (and for the case of this argument more specifically, he) has made some bad errors this year doesn't automatically mean the best solution is to burn the house down. I would say the probability of SW getting it right in the Champ next year is higher than just wiping the whole plan and starting from scratch.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Mason 47
Autocorrect error

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

He has an excellent championship record, the owners are the issue. Scraping pennies all the while! Stay for me.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Dr Greenthumb

[Nora's Ghost 157]

Another fall guy taking the flak that should be coming Delia Smith's way.

 

And I doubt he will be the last.

[Year of the tiger 54]

44 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I remember the time that Glenn Roeder answered a fans football related question with "I must have missed your tenure as England manager", an incredibly condescending response by somebody who achieved f*ck all as a manager themselves. 

The board, Delia and husband included, all found that response highly amusing. I wouldn't therefore expect them to sack anybody for holding the fans in disdain.

That is not true. It was not viewed with amusement at the time or subsequently & from that moment his days were numbered. 

[Ray 111]

11 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

All I see were 'supporters' calling him a c**t and labelling the man as an embarrassment.  I think most people's demeanour would change in that situation.

What I don't see is where he's laid into supporters - being there yourself, could you elaborate or example how he laid into them please?

Google Bot,

By laying in to I did not mean physically, however his whole attitude was one of going on the attack, when in fact he didn't even need to confront them and should have ignored the noise, going out in the manner he did it was only going to end badly.  The initial protest appeared to be focused on Delia more than him, his appearance inflamed the vitriol against him, especially as it came 24 hours after is media interview re 90%, etc.  

This in my opinion brings his judgement (around such matters) into question, especially having witnessed the Man City situation previously mentioned.

All this said, I am of the opinion that if he gets his next move right then I would be happy for him to have another go, at getting it right, or at least better.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

I think he needs removing from recruitment but think his overall work is decent. I also think it’s too convenient to turn him into the scapegoat given that the real problem, no matter how much some don’t want to admit it, is the ownership. 

[hogesar 9,658]

I think if you look at the overall complexion of the squad, the clubs finances, it's assets and it's development, then he's been a success story at NCFC.

It's really easy to forget that when he came in we had an under-performing, ageing squad on unaffordable wages. 

It's really easy to forget how he had to defend his decision to employ Farke during and after that first season, in response to parts of our fanbase demanding he was sacked and that Farke football was 'boring tippy-tappy rubbish' etc.

It's really easy to forget the stick he and the club got for selling the likes of Ruddy, Bennett and in particular Pritchard, and the cynical mocking when he claimed he had someone better than Pritchard lined up for us.

It's really easy to forget that we got promoted with the likes of Zimmerman, Trybull, Stiepermann and Vrancic who all received various levels of stick from the fans for being "4th tier German nobodies" and the like.

So when the same fans who criticised and complained about all of the above before results transpired now want Webber out, evidence suggests they're likely wrong and we should keep him.

[Channon’s Windmill 326]

Owners are the problem, Webber will go imo though.

[essex canary 496]

1 hour ago, Cowboy said:

Mrs Webber

She is the biggest reason why he should go as a couple should never be working in such senior positions for the same company.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think if you look at the overall complexion of the squad, the clubs finances, it's assets and it's development, then he's been a success story at NCFC.

It's really easy to forget that when he came in we had an under-performing, ageing squad on unaffordable wages. 

It's really easy to forget how he had to defend his decision to employ Farke during and after that first season, in response to parts of our fanbase demanding he was sacked and that Farke football was 'boring tippy-tappy rubbish' etc.

It's really easy to forget the stick he and the club got for selling the likes of Ruddy, Bennett and in particular Pritchard, and the cynical mocking when he claimed he had someone better than Pritchard lined up for us.

It's really easy to forget that we got promoted with the likes of Zimmerman, Trybull, Stiepermann and Vrancic who all received various levels of stick from the fans for being "4th tier German nobodies" and the like.

So when the same fans who criticised and complained about all of the above before results transpired now want Webber out, evidence suggests they're likely wrong and we should keep him.

Every dog has their day.

Many felt that McNally was right to go when he did, but few would argue that his record in the first 80% of his reign wasn't excellent and we can list some of the players that we got out of the Championship under McNally with if you like, many of them played most of their career below the Championship.

He is good at getting other teams to pay over the odds for our players, including Pritchard, that is certainly true. I fear his luck might run out there too though, as there's only really Max Aarons left to flog?

Edited May 12, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[hogesar 9,658]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Every dog has their day.

Many felt that McNally was right to go when he did, but few would argue that his record in the first 80% of his reign wasn't excellent and we can list some of the players that we got out of the Championship under McNally with if you like, many of them played most of their career below the Championship.

Of course. But the fundamental difference is McNally overspent on transfers / wages which made relegation a bigger concern. Those transfer fees / wages were on depreciating assets due to age (Naismith, Klose). It meant the route back was trickier.

Whilst it's risk-adverse and maybe part of the problem with NCFC as a Premier League Club right now, Webber opted for younger players who still have a good chance of at least retaining, if not improving their value. 

Finally, McNally put every penny into the playing squad, he didnt hedge his bets so to speak. Webber has driven dramatic infrastructure change, particularly in terms of training and youth facilities - if he leaves he leaves behind a tangible, physical, real-world improvement to the club that we've not done in any of our previous Premier League years.

[komakino 272]

The club needs someone to get us up and keep us up. 
 

Webber has emphatically shown he can’t do that.

P45.

Edited May 12, 2022 by komakino

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

Kinda in a weird mindset on Webber really. I can see that overall his tenure has been pretty good with some excellent decisions and leadership including the long list provided by others above, however, much the same with Farke, when things started to go wrong at the club last year they haven’t stopped and there does seem to be massive issues both in and off the pitch which makes me wonder if he can turn it around again.  Stuck between not trusting him if new owners arrived with money and not believing anyone else would do much better overall with Delia in charge.

[komakino 272]

1 minute ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

Kinda in a weird mindset on Webber really. I can see that overall his tenure has been pretty good with some excellent decisions and leadership including the long list provided by others above, however, much the same with Farke, when things started to go wrong at the club last year they haven’t stopped and there does seem to be massive issues both in and off the pitch which makes me wonder if he can turn it around again.  Stuck between not trusting him if new owners arrived with money and not believing anyone else would do much better overall with Delia in charge.

We should not forget that Webber said ‘He was just passing through (Norwich City)’ and his next job would be in Europe.

Nobody wanted him.

Clearly a man whose ability is less than he believes , he’ll continue to be footballs Littleist Hobo and will end up having a C.V like a toilet roll. 

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I remember the time that Glenn Roeder answered a fans football related question with "I must have missed your tenure as England manager", an incredibly condescending response by somebody who achieved f*ck all as a manager themselves. 

The board, Delia and husband included, all found that response highly amusing. I wouldn't therefore expect them to sack anybody for holding the fans in disdain.

No. As I remember Roeder was immediately rebuked by one of the board members. I think Munby, who was chairman at the time and in control of the meeting.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,295]

Everything has a ending. And now is the ending for his tenure here.. I think it would have been the case even with the recent breakdowns. 

[Jambomo 215]

I am not a massive Webber fan but I would have him stay.

I think the fact that we bought the players to play possession football in the PL shows for me that 1) Farke had more say (and therefore responsibility)  in recruitment than we all believe and 2) The subsequent change early on was brought about by pragmatism when Farke realised it wouldn’t work.

The main issue is the lack of money though. The blame for that I would say is that Delia and Michael, not for not selling but more that they don’t allow investment into club either.

There is a fine line between buying players that work and don’t, even the biggest teams sign players who turn out to be awful. When you are shopping at the footballing equivalent of Poundstretcher, then the chances of getting a Buendia is much less than a Sargent or injured Normann. You are in the price bracket of needing to take risks.

Whilst I think Webber got the recruitment wrong (I think they should have realised Farkeball wouldn’t work in the PL for us) I actually think a lot less of it is his fault than is being made out at the moment. I also think we have been incredibly unlucky with the fixture list, injuries and Covid. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

36 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

No. As I remember Roeder was immediately rebuked by one of the board members. I think Munby, who was chairman at the time and in control of the meeting.

Happy to stand corrected, and I always liked Roger Munby. Never seen somebody smoke a fag as quick as him too, demolished a king size in about four puffs.

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

3 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Happy to stand corrected, and I always liked Roger Munby. Never seen somebody smoke a fag as quick as him too, demolished a king size in about four puffs.

Wynn-Jones v Mumby smoke off might lighten the mood last home match. It would be better than the normal half time entertainment. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Of course. But the fundamental difference is McNally overspent on transfers / wages which made relegation a bigger concern. Those transfer fees / wages were on depreciating assets due to age (Naismith, Klose). It meant the route back was trickier.

Whilst it's risk-adverse and maybe part of the problem with NCFC as a Premier League Club right now, Webber opted for younger players who still have a good chance of at least retaining, if not improving their value. 

Finally, McNally put every penny into the playing squad, he didnt hedge his bets so to speak. Webber has driven dramatic infrastructure change, particularly in terms of training and youth facilities - if he leaves he leaves behind a tangible, physical, real-world improvement to the club that we've not done in any of our previous Premier League years.

McNally's own counter argument to this point is that the wage bill, including Naismith, only became a problem because his successors failed to achieve promotion during the two year period where we got the top tier of parachute payments, and his own assertion that we would have returned within this period under his stewardship. Now there is no way of knowing whether he is correct, he was never short of confidence was he, but we do have to concede that he achieved 2 promotions out of 2 attempts here. 

Furthermore, the wage bill only became a major problem after the point at which the parachute payments ended, with some contracts finishing a year after the parachute payments, included in this was Steven Naismith. Giving players contracts which exceeded the guaranteed 2 years of the higher level parachute payments was the 'risk' you talk of.

Only, if we fail to return to the top tier again this time then our parachute payments end in summer 2024. Contracts which don't expire until 2025 include Rashica, Sargent, and Gunn, whilst Tsoliz has a deal up to 2026. So how is this in any way different? Are you saying those players are on average Championship wages, affordable to clubs without parachute payments? I highly doubt it. 

It is fair to point out that Naismith was never going to have a significant resale value, and that 1 or 2 of those players may recover one at some stage, but the risk of a structural issue of having unfancied players on the books who were signed in the Premier League, but contracted beyond the possible end of parachute payments, seems to very much still exist under Webber? 

Edited May 12, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[Mengo 822]

I'm sure Mick Dennis does🤣

[Ray 111]

28 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Wynn-Jones v Mumby smoke off might lighten the mood last home match. It would be better than the normal half time entertainment. 

Folks, I am sorry to report Roger Munby will not be at the last match as unfortunately he is in hospital, nothing too serious but has been suffering from a number of ailments for a year or two now but I'm sure he would see the humour in the smoke-off half time entertainment suggestion.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

Has anyone asked "But who else is there" yet? Asking for a friend...

[corbs 147]

I’d like to know what the employees of the club feel overall. At my workplace the satisfaction survey is out, with views on how staff feel they have been treated over the year. It’s a tough business but it’s a team game, so have we got good people in the key roles, and is the club a good place to work, bottom up? Confidence comes with winning, but loyalty is hard earned.