finance City wages 25% higher than at least one premier league team

[Badger 2,405]

We are always told that we pay the lowest wages in the EPL: this  is simply not true. We are one of the lowest without doubt, but if we ever manage to stay up, with staying up bonuses (that most similar teams have) our wages are competitive with several other EPL teams. Te latest evidence of this comes with the publication of Sheffield Utd's accounts.

1. Our wages in 19-20 (88.9 million) were £12 million pounds higher than Sheffield Utds - even though Sheffield Utd got their staying up bonus!

2. In 20-21 (an 11 month financial year for both of us), their wages were 56.5 million in the Premier League. Quite remarkably, our wages were 10 million pounds higher in the championship.

3. With this information it is possible to do an approximate comparison of the wages of the two teams excluding staying up bonuses. I have made adjustments for the 13 and 11 month years. Our adjusted wages in the Premier league were £82 million pa whilst Sheffield Utds (adjusted) were £61.6 million. My fag packet maths makes it therefore that rather than being the worst payers in the league, our premier league wages were 25% higher than Sheffield Utd's. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Badger
Mengo - forced me into it!

[Badger 2,405]

The other thing that I thought might be of interest is owner financing. There is a common assumption that all other clubs are bankrolled by their owners. This simply isn't the case.

In Sheffield Utd's case there has been some owner financing - whether it is under the current owner I'm not sure but don't think so. perhaps Sheff will clarify? The owners have contributed 23.1 million over 9 years - about £2.3 million pa? More interestingly the owners provided no extra funding in the years that they were inn the Premier league! Instead they borrowed over 40 million! They also owe £37 million in transfer debts and are only owed £2 million. This largely went to pay for the three strikers that they paid about £50 million for and I think I am right in saying have scored fewer than 10 goals between them in this year's championship. Did they sack their Director of Football Shef?

[essex canary 491]

Their non-broadcasting turnover is a lot less than ours. When we both went up in 2019 I think our £33 million compared to their £20 million.

[Pyro Pete 1,889]

 

[Mengo 821]

56 minutes ago, Badger said:

We are always told that we pay the lowest wags in the EPL: this  is simply not true. We are one of the lowest without doubt, but if we ever manage to stay up, with staying up bonuses (that most similar teams have) our wages are competitive with several other EPL teams. Te latest evidence of this comes with the publication of Sheffield Utd's accounts.

1. Our wages in 19-20 (88.9 million) were £12 million pounds higher than Sheffield Utds - even though Sheffield Utd got their staying up bonus!

2. In 20-21 (an 11 month financial year for both of us), their wages were 56.5 million in the Premier League. Quite remarkably, our wages were 10 million pounds higher in the championship.

3. With this information it is possible to do an approximate comparison of the wages of the two teams excluding staying up bonuses. I have made adjustments for the 13 and 11 month years. Our adjusted wages in the Premier league were £82 million pa whilst Sheffield Utds (adjusted) were £61.6 million. My fag packet maths makes it therefore that rather than being the worst payers in the league, our premier league wages were 25% higher than Sheffield Utd's. 

So our WAGS get paid more in some cases.😇🤑

 

[shefcanary 2,385]

@badger this is a tale of two owners. 

The Blades entered the teenies with local Property Developer Kevin McCabe as owner.  He did indeed invest at the beginning of his tenure, completing a number of improvements to the stadium, relocating the training ground whilst also improving it (but it's rather tiny and has a very old building at its heart) and building another infamous hotel in the corner of the stadium footprint.  The figures you quote represent capital investment rather than revenue and as is usual in football some of it was financed in new loans.  There remains some doubt over exactly what was actually invested because ownership of some of these assets remained in one of a myriad of companies owned by McCabe (not unusual for a property developer trying to minimise risk and tax).

But when the club were relegated to League 1, he pulled up the financial drawbridge and actively looked for another investor to join in the enterprise and start investing themselves.  He thought he had achieved this with the Pauper Prince.  Rubbing his hands excitedly he drew up a sales agreement to divest of 50% of his ownership.  It now transpires that the sales agreement was riddled with holes which cost him later.

Anyway after the appointment of Wilder the now joint owners oversaw a sudden improvement on the pitch.  Promotion to the Chumps saw Wilder rightfully ask for money for team building.  This is when the relationship between McCabe and the Pauper Prince broke down.  The "agreement" was that the Pauper Prince would match pound for pound McCabe's support.  McCabe invested £500k, but lo, the Pauper Prince did not match it.  It now transpires the Pauper Prince had been cut-off by his family financially who were fed up with him "wasting" his cash on football clubs (he also had an interest in clubs overseas).  Despite this lack of investment Wilder continued to oversee improvements on the field.  

At the beginning of their promotion season, McCabe finally lost patience and sought to buy-out the Prince.  However the Prince used a clause in the sales agreement to claim first dibs on buy-out!  This lead to the High Court case where the judge found for the Pauper Prince, saying in the process McCabe was an idiot to allow for the clause that the Prince relied on, but that as it was clear and legal had to be obeyed.  The Prince thus became sole owner of the club, although some of the assumed assets actually remained in the ownership of McCabe, including part of the footprint of the stadium environs and strangely an operating lease of the Hotel! 

Despite the court case Wilder managed to get United promoted, even more fantastically playing well enough on promotion to secure their status for another season (mainly due to a very low rate of injuries).  The Pauper Prince couldn't believe his luck, he owned a Premier League club!  But he still didn't have any cash to invest, despite asking around his billionaire relatives.  

So Wilder had been managing his squad on a break-even basis throughout this period.  It was well known in Sheffield that players were signing on a "jam tomorrow" basis, although as most of them had been signed from lower division clubs, even then they were well rewarded (just not as well as say Norwich players!).

So Wilder, having retained EPL status decided to go on a spending spree based on the additional funds resulting from EPL prize money.  And lo it backfired spectacularly as he spent it mainly on what would turn out to be underperforming strikers and midfielders.  Then his defence was impacted with injury after injury!  They got relegated.

So, their salary budget has remained low, their players being paid relatively low salaries for EPL, apart from for some expensive flops (McBurnie, Brewster, Mousset); even Sharp never got an exceptional salary.  However that expenditure has finally hit their accounts. 

In Wilder they had a very good manager given the lack of support he got.  He got out though when it was clear no more investment was coming from the Prince, the Prince reputedly wanting to impose a DoF structure in return for the go ahead of a modest increase in playing squad budget.  Wilder said no, resigned but only after  he made sure he got his pay-off.

Edited May 11, 2022 by shefcanary

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, Mengo said:

So our WAGS get paid more in some cases.😇🤑

 

Did you think I meant wages? 🤦‍♂️

Thanks for pointing out my error. I bought a wireless keyboard a few months ago (a keyboard worrier needs the best equipment) but it keeps missing letters etc. It is intensely irritating - I've even considered putting fresh batteries in.

[Mengo 821]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Did you think I meant wages? 🤦‍♂️

Thanks for pointing out my error. I bought a wireless keyboard a few months ago (a keyboard worrier needs the best equipment) but it keeps missing letters etc. It is intensely irritating - I've even considered putting fresh batteries in.

Ah Badger 😄. I couldn't resist it especially being WAGS. Fits the football agenda😄kick off two minutes in brazil 🇧🇷 1600 hrs .Time to crack open the Brahma 🍺 

[Badger 2,405]

14 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

@badger this is a tale of two owners. 

The Blades entered the teenies with local Property Developer Kevin McCabe as owner.  He did indeed invest at the beginning of his tenure, completing a number of improvements to the stadium, relocating the training ground whilst also improving it (but it's rather tiny and has a very old building at its heart) and building another infamous hotel in the corner of the stadium footprint.  The figures you quote represent capital investment rather than revenue and as is usual in football some of it was financed in new loans.  There remains some doubt over exactly what was actually invested because ownership of some of these assets remained in one of a myriad of companies owned by McCabe (not unusual for a property developer trying to minimise risk and tax).

But when the club were relegated to League 1, he pulled up the financial drawbridge and actively looked for another investor to join in the enterprise and start investing themselves.  He thought he had achieved this with the Pauper Prince.  Rubbing his hands excitedly he drew up a sales agreement to divest of 50% of his ownership.  It now transpires that the sales agreement was riddled with holes which cost him later.

Anyway after the appointment of Wilder the now joint owners oversaw a sudden improvement on the pitch.  Promotion to the Chumps saw Wilder rightfully ask for money for team building.  This is when the relationship between McCabe and the Pauper Prince broke down.  The "agreement" was that the Pauper Prince would match pound for pound McCabe's support.  McCabe invested £500k, but lo, the Pauper Prince did not match it.  It now transpires the Pauper Prince had been cut-off by his family financially who were fed up with him "wasting" his cash on football clubs (he also had an interest in clubs overseas).  Despite this lack of investment Wilder continued to oversee improvements on the field.  

At the beginning of their promotion season, McCabe finally lost patience and sought to buy-out the Prince.  However the Prince used a clause in the sales agreement to claim first dibs on buy-out!  This lead to the High Court case where the judge found for the Pauper Prince, saying in the process McCabe was an idiot to allow for the clause that the Prince relied on, but that as it was clear and legal had to be obeyed.  The Prince thus became sole owner of the club, although some of the assumed assets actually remained in the ownership of McCabe, including part of the footprint of the stadium environs and strangely an operating lease of the Hotel! 

Despite the court case Wilder managed to get United promoted, even more fantastically playing well enough on promotion to secure their status for another season (mainly due to a very low rate of injuries).  The Pauper Prince couldn't believe his luck, he owned a Premier League club!  But he still didn't have any cash to invest, despite asking around his billionaire relatives.  

So Wilder had been managing his squad on a break-even basis throughout this period.  It was well known in Sheffield that players were signing on a "jam tomorrow" basis, although as most of them had been signed from lower division clubs, even then they were well rewarded (just not as well as say Norwich players!).

So Wilder, having retained EPL status decided to go on a spending spree based on the additional funds resulting from EPL prize money.  And lo it backfired spectacularly as he spent it mainly on what would turn out to be underperforming strikers and midfielders.  Then his defence was impacted with injury after injury!  They got relegated.

So, their salary budget has remained low, their players being paid relatively low salaries for EPL, apart from for some expensive flops (McBurnie, Brewster, Mousset); even Sharp never got an exceptional salary.  However that expenditure has finally hit their accounts. 

In Wilder they had a very good manager given the lack of support he got.  He got out though when it was clear no more investment was coming from the Prince, the Prince reputedly wanting to impose a DoF structure in return for the go ahead of a modest increase in playing squad budget.  Wilder said no, resigned but only after  he made sure he got his pay-off.

Thanks Shef!

I remember the Court case - I suspect that McCabe must have been a little irritated with his solicitors that drew up the original contract with the Prince!

I will post a link to the whole thread at some point as there is other stuff that might interest you. Apparently there are negotiations for a sale to a US businessperson? There is talk of £115 million, which given Sheff U's debt and other things you say (infrastructure etc) seems very high for a Championship team - even for one with a guarantee of two further years of parachute payments.

Makes a valuation (that makes it sound a hifalutin - guess would be better) I gave for City a few weeks ago seem very conservative - or am I missing something?

[Badger 2,405]

2 minutes ago, Mengo said:

Ah Badger 😄. I couldn't resist it especially being WAGS. Fits the football agenda😄kick off two minutes in brazil 🇧🇷 1600 hrs .Time to crack open the Brahma 🍺 

Enjoy!

[shefcanary 2,385]

4 minutes ago, Badger said:

Thanks Shef!

I remember the Court case - I suspect that McCabe must have been a little irritated with his solicitors that drew up the original contract with the Prince!

I will post a link to the whole thread at some point as there is other stuff that might interest you. Apparently there are negotiations for a sale to a US businessperson? There is talk of £115 million, which given Sheff U's debt and other things you say (infrastructure etc) seems very high for a Championship team - even for one with a guarantee of two further years of parachute payments.

Makes a valuation (that makes it sound a hifalutin - guess would be better) I gave for City a few weeks ago seem very conservative - or am I missing something?

Is this a Swiss Ramble thread?  If so, will dig out, rather than clogging up this MB.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

32 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

 

So Wilder, having retained EPL status decided to go on a spending spree based on the additional funds resulting from EPL prize money.  And lo it backfired spectacularly as he spent it mainly on what would turn out to be underperforming strikers and midfielders.  Then his defence was impacted with injury after injury!  They got relegated.

 

This is nearly the same as us 

Webber found some  fantastic players when he had little to spend 

Wilder the same no money good footballers that got sheff utd through the divisions and kept them up

then both had money to spend and bought badly 

so what made them successful they ditched to go big and it failed

 

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

Same problems as all the other threads claiming that our wages are PL competitive. Taking a overall wage budget from accounts without knowing the intricacies of how the accounts are manipulated, what they encompass, who they include etc etc makes it no more enlightening than the transfer details given out when players come and go. You are not going to convince people who are ready to roll the dice on new ownership that we shouldn’t wish for change by comparing our wage budget to an already relegated team, perhaps compare our wage structure to the teams we had hoped to compete with like Palace, Leeds, Brighton and alike.

let’s for one moment say you are correct and our wage structure allows us to attract sufficient quality to compete at the top level. Then there is even less excuse for the embarrassment of the last two PL seasons and we need a clear out of the top level, not on the basis that they cannot provide the required investment but that the cannot either spend that money wisely or employ staff that can. Either way, too poor or incapable, the dice still needs to roll I’d argue.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Son Ova Gunn

[MrBunce 245]

@shefcanary

The Mccabe v Prince case is fascinating and even more convoluted than your summary. Adding to the story, but trying to keep it short:

McCabe found out the Prince had little money and wouldn't be able to honour the agreement to keep putting money into the club.

The two had a monumental falling out, in some part caused by the machinations of the Prince's lawyer (who, having come across him, is razor sharp). 

The agreement between the two allowed for one party to offer to buy the other one out. The catch is that the other party could turn back and buy them out at the price offered. 

In the agreement, if the Prince bought out McCabe and owned more than 75pc of the shares he would have to buy all of McCabe's (substantial) land interests, which he had no way of affording (something along the lines of £40m). 

So McCabe tried to be clever and put in a very low offer price, £5m, thinking the Prince would have no choice but to accept. 

Instead the Prince tried to weasel out of it (unsuccessfully) by giving his shares to the lawyer. He delayed as much as possible before he counteroffered McCabe and offered to buy his shares out at the £5m. He then informed McCabe he would not actually be buying the property as he owned less than 75pc of the shares. 

McCabe called foul and sued the Prince. In the meantime Sheffield United were promoted to the Premier League. Now it was a chance for either party to own a Premier League team for £10m.

The court ruled that whilst the Prince's scheme failed, he had no duty to act in good faith to McCabe (I.e. He could try every legal trick in the book to benefit him). McCabe was ordered to sell his stake at £5m to the Prince, along with the property. The Prince could now afford this as the club was awash with Premier League cash. McCabe had gambled and it backfired tremendously. The Prince got a Premier League club for £10m.

[shefcanary 2,385]

2 minutes ago, MrBunce said:

@shefcanary

The Mccabe v Prince case is fascinating and even more convoluted than your summary. Adding to the story, but trying to keep it short:

McCabe found out the Prince had little money and wouldn't be able to honour the agreement to keep putting money into the club.

The two had a monumental falling out, in some part caused by the machinations of the Prince's lawyer (who, having come across him, is razor sharp). 

The agreement between the two allowed for one party to offer to buy the other one out. The catch is that the other party could turn back and buy them out at the price offered. 

In the agreement, if the Prince bought out McCabe and owned more than 75pc of the shares he would have to buy all of McCabe's (substantial) land interests, which he had no way of affording (something along the lines of £40m). 

So McCabe tried to be clever and put in a very low offer price, £5m, thinking the Prince would have no choice but to accept. 

Instead the Prince tried to weasel out of it (unsuccessfully) by giving his shares to the lawyer. He delayed as much as possible before he counteroffered McCabe and offered to buy his shares out at the £5m. He then informed McCabe he would not actually be buying the property as he owned less than 75pc of the shares. 

McCabe called foul and sued the Prince. In the meantime Sheffield United were promoted to the Premier League. Now it was a chance for either party to own a Premier League team for £10m.

The court ruled that whilst the Prince's scheme failed, he had no duty to act in good faith to McCabe (I.e. He could try every legal trick in the book to benefit him). McCabe was ordered to sell his stake at £5m to the Prince, along with the property. The Prince could now afford this as the club was awash with Premier League cash. McCabe had gambled and it backfired tremendously. The Prince got a Premier League club for £10m.

Thanks @MrBunce i didn't have all the convolutions to hand, but was aware it was probably more complicated than i wrote. 

The latest rumour is that the American who has tabled the £115m (albeit leveraged) bid for the Blades is actually just a front for McCabe! 

The Pauper Prince could receive a substantial return on his relatively small investment, his legal team will deserve a large share of it, which you seem to know better than most! And McCabe might have the club back but paid out a huge amount in the process.

All's fair in love and football club ownership!  As long as your team keeps winning!

[Badger 2,405]

On 11/05/2022 at 20:05, shefcanary said:

Is this a Swiss Ramble thread?  If so, will dig out, rather than clogging up this MB.😣

Yes - Swiss Ramble.

It's interesting to me people do not want evidence that challenges their prejudices - the thread has had about 500 views. I deliberately put the fact that the title thread that our wages were 25% higher than another PL team to see the effect, but people seem to wilfully remain in their ignorance. The posts saying the we are the lowest paying team in the EPL will start again soon.

If I has started a yet another thread saying implying Webber is a sh1t, there would have been 3000 views in a few hours!

It's more than cognitive bias, it's a deliberate attempt to avoid understanding! 

[shefcanary 2,385]

Yep, found it thanks!

[Badger 2,405]

On 11/05/2022 at 22:36, shefcanary said:

The latest rumour is that the American who has tabled the £115m (albeit leveraged) bid for the Blades is actually just a front for McCabe! 

That's hardly great business! Sell it for 5 million pounds and buy it back for £115 million?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

On 11/05/2022 at 19:26, Pyro Pete said:

 

I see your badger video and raise you...
 

 

[1902 1,167]

Incidentally, the prince also owns Beerschot who have just been relegated from the Belgian first division and will need to play behind closed doors for 3 games due to repeated violence from fans including forcing their final game against Union to be abandoned due to a pitch invasion.

They are not a well liked club.

[hertfordyellow 460]

I’m not sure of how much of a difference it makes to average first team wage, but we do have more staff. Having a sporting director and the multiple different coaches and analysts than Sheffield will make up some of the difference. A quick look at their structure shows the difference in numbers.

Its also worth pointing out they stayed up for one season and then had a horrific season not unlike ours. Any team can ride the crest of the wave and stay up, it’s pointless if it doesn’t last, especially if you saddle yourself with players that didn’t make it and don’t want to be at the club anymore (while increasing debt).

They were willing to take on debt, we aren’t. Was it worth it? Maybe not. The truth is, when it comes to individual transfers, if a team like Brighton want him as well, their overall package will be more desirable, they are willing to take on debt (as the owner rights it off) and don’t really care about things like wages vs % turnover.

[shefcanary 2,385]

16 hours ago, Badger said:

That's hardly great business! Sell it for 5 million pounds and buy it back for £115 million?

Happens quite a lot in Sheffield!

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Surely another indicator of where the blame should lie? We certainly had more than even to compete financially with the teams around us, we just chose not to, rather quantity over quality… That is not on the ownership…

[Mengo 821]

1 hour ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Surely another indicator of where the blame should lie? We certainly had more than even to compete financially with the teams around us, we just chose not to, rather quantity over quality… That is not on the ownership…

🥳🥳🤑   ( no interference , No governance) its party time.

Referencing Delia Smith and Michael Wynn-Jones’ influence on his switch, the Norwich Sporting Director admitted: “When the opportunity came up here, my wife said you need to speak to these people, as in the owners, because she thought I would just like it.

“When I spoke to them, they convinced me and said ( we’ll let you do whatever you want.)

“We haven’t got the money to support it but you can do what you want and that excited me greatly because I love building stuff, I love building buildings.

“I love building culture but I love it doing it without interference from people who don’t know because what happens in football a lot is, people interfere who haven’t got a clue.

“When someone gets a bit of success as an owner or a chairman, they start to think they do know and start to go, ‘oh I think we should do this’.

“Whereas here, Delia and Michael really convinced me, or I believed should I say that these guys would let *( US )* do whatever we wanted and that was exciting.”Referencing Delia Smith and Michael Wynn-Jones’ influence on his switch, the Norwich Sporting Director admitted: “When the opportunity came up here, *(my wife )* said you need to speak to these people, as in the owners, because she thought I would just like it.“🥳

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Mengo