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Poor signings, no identity.. MOTD has a pop at us

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10 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Under DF we had an identity. Now we haven't. Quite true.

At the same time, to say Deano hasn't had time is stupid and wrong. What he has had time for is to completely lose any style or tactics. We don't string a series of moves together. We don't get people up in support. And we don't defend as a unit and that is why Hanley has to throw himself around so much because nobody else is at home.

WE were poor under DF because he didn't have the players good enough to play his style. That was his crime. To be let down.

Yes, he referred to having to make do with Championship tools in the EPL.

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I don’t buy into this identity, we have an half arsed identity led by two old pensioners who have little energy for continuing change to improve things because they believe that a DOF who give less than 90% is a good example! We buy with an eye on selling on for profit instead of building to be the best we can, that’s the fault of our ideology…..accept it or not that’s this club, the problem starts when you have no assets due to poor scouting and signings then suddenly it becomes a lot more precarious! We all know what our club is but the pundits don’t like it!

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12 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

What does having an 'identity' mean?

 

It’s the latest bullsh1t. Like “phase”, “press”, “high press”etc.

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They will not even  mention us at all after the West Ham game , we have been a total irrelevance in the Premiership all season.

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Looking at the stats for who's relegated for the last six or seven years, the gap between the bottom three and the rest of the pack is widening. You do start to suspect that at some point they'll reduce it to 17 teams and just scrap promotion and relegation between the championship and premier League.

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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Well I've just watched this mornings replay of MoTD and the pundits were saying much the same about Watford and put up the stats to indicate where and why they're returning to the Chumps....Not dissimilar to what they said about our failures apart from their managerial merry go round.....

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34 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Well I've just watched this mornings replay of MoTD and the pundits were saying much the same about Watford and put up the stats to indicate where and why they're returning to the Chumps....Not dissimilar to what they said about our failures apart from their managerial merry go round.....

I wonder if they've taken the hint that the problems aren't so much with the teams, but are emblematic of systemic problems with the current state of football and the premier League? Or is it just cos we both play in yellow

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20 hours ago, AJ said:

Spot on, but from things he’s said since his departure it seems very likely this was an attempt to combat not getting the players he asked for from Webber to make the system work. I still think abandoning his philosophy was probably a big mistake, but we literally had no natural DM and no natural RW to make the system work so he had to adjust with what we had. 

The really odd thing about this, is that it suggests that Farke decided to change the preferred formation and abandon the 'style' of play he had previously favoured AND the philosophy that went with it, all because we failed to sign one player. For me that doesn't add up.

We almost certainly signed the majority of the other players to be part of a 4-2-3-1.

As much as people berate him, Sergant as a wide right of an attacking three would be fine. Not that he would have been first choice as you'd suspect that Cantwell and Rashica would have been first choice for that formation.

I believe Lees-Melou was signed as a Stiepermann replacement originally. McLean as one of the two holding/DM roles and another alongside him. I'm not sure if Gilmour will develop into a better McLean type player or not but I suspect that may have been the idea.

Certainly, when we used that formation in the one game we won under Farke it worked a treat. And I maintain that going into the first 4-5 fixtures of the season, in a new formation, with a new approach, having had next to no pre-season due to covid, against sides that finished inside the top 3 / top 6 last season, was a horrific mistake. It meant the squad was still trying to adapt to something unfamiliar to them. Should have stuck with the 4-2-3-1, at least the players that had been around last season or longer would have been more comfortable with it.

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20 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

I wonder if they've taken the hint that the problems aren't so much with the teams, but are emblematic of systemic problems with the current state of football and the premier League? Or is it just cos we both play in yellow

I dunno....maybe ask Brentford?...

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36 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

I dunno....maybe ask Brentford?...

Or maybe ask Fulham or west brom or Bournemouth or sheff utd...

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2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Looking at the stats for who's relegated for the last six or seven years, the gap between the bottom three and the rest of the pack is widening. You do start to suspect that at some point they'll reduce it to 17 teams and just scrap promotion and relegation between the championship and premier League.

So if that leaves Delia marooned in the Championship, how is the current business model going to survive with no broadcasting income?

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26 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

So if that leaves Delia marooned in the Championship, how is the current business model going to survive with no broadcasting income?

It'll leave us in the same boat as everybody else not in the Premier League, only with a far better starting position than most due to the state of the club's academy and infrastructure. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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1 hour ago, cornish sam said:

Or maybe ask Fulham or west brom or Bournemouth or sheff utd...

Don’t forget Palace, Southampton and Brighton. 

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18 hours ago, cornish sam said:

With Watford now being relegated for the second time in 3 years and only 1 point above us, can we expect a load of articles about them being a waste of a premier League place and an embarrassment as well?

Nail on the head. 

Nor will they say anything about the shambles at Leeds or what has happened with Gerrard at Villa. How much have they both spent? And if Everton are mentioned it's all about their wonderful fans. And very little is said about Burnley and their "identity" which is basically stud marks. 

For some reason the national media don't like us. I wonder what they'll say when Brentford and Fulham are relegated next year 🤔

Edited by dylanisabaddog

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2 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Nail on the head. 

Nor will they say anything about the shambles at Leeds or what has happened with Gerrard at Villa. How much have they both spent? And if Everton are mentioned it's all about their wonderful fans. And very little is said about Burnley and their "identity" which is basically stud marks. 

For some reason the national media don't like us. I wonder what they'll say when Brentford and Fulham are relegated next year 🤔

Are those 2 definitely being relegated next season? 

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Just now, dylanisabaddog said:

Nail on the head. 

Nor will they say anything about the shambles at Leeds or what has happened with Gerrard at Villa. How much have they both spent. And if Everton are mentioned it's all about their wonderful fans. And very little is said about Burnley and their "identity" which is basically stud marks. 

For some reason the national media don't like us. I wonder what they'll say when Brentford and Fulham are relegated next year 🤔

It isn't the problem that Norwich got relegated. It was always going to be tough. 

It was how we got relegated. 

The National Media would have no problem with us if we made a real effort to stay there, but we didn't. It is of no surprise that we have fallen out of favour. This season has been indefensible with mistakes made on and off the pitch at a consistent level. 

MOTD were quite tame, though they got the basics right. If we want the press onside, it is down to doing the job properly rather than another token effort by the club to stay in a league they don't really want to stay in. 

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4 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Are those 2 definitely being relegated next season? 

Actually Brentford may survive in view of the quality of the 3 coming up. 

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3 hours ago, chicken said:

The really odd thing about this, is that it suggests that Farke decided to change the preferred formation and abandon the 'style' of play he had previously favoured AND the philosophy that went with it, all because we failed to sign one player. For me that doesn't add up.

We almost certainly signed the majority of the other players to be part of a 4-2-3-1.

As much as people berate him, Sergant as a wide right of an attacking three would be fine. Not that he would have been first choice as you'd suspect that Cantwell and Rashica would have been first choice for that formation.

I believe Lees-Melou was signed as a Stiepermann replacement originally. McLean as one of the two holding/DM roles and another alongside him. I'm not sure if Gilmour will develop into a better McLean type player or not but I suspect that may have been the idea.

Certainly, when we used that formation in the one game we won under Farke it worked a treat. And I maintain that going into the first 4-5 fixtures of the season, in a new formation, with a new approach, having had next to no pre-season due to covid, against sides that finished inside the top 3 / top 6 last season, was a horrific mistake. It meant the squad was still trying to adapt to something unfamiliar to them. Should have stuck with the 4-2-3-1, at least the players that had been around last season or longer would have been more comfortable with it.

Completely agree with this, it seems like tactical suicide looking back. We should have stuck with what made us good the previous season. Yes losing Buendia and Skipp/Tettey were hammer blows but not enough of a reason to abandon everything that was going right for us. Instead we looked like a team that hadn't played together before, had no attacking threat and couldn't defend. 

I think Sargent as a RF is fine, but Buendia was much more of a RM and did a lot more defensively so in truth it's more like 2 missing signings to replace Skipp and Buendia, Rashica for me is more of a Cantwell replacement because we never really signed a RM.

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52 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It'll leave us in the same boat as everybody else not in the Premier League, only with a far better starting position than most due to the state of the club's academy and infrastructure. 

But the club has historically lost money in the Championship as soon as broadcasting income dries up. Revenue will fall to about £35 million. How will they break even?

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53 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Don’t forget Palace, Southampton and Brighton. 

Ooh, ooh, ooh, if we're playing this game then I get derby, Birmingham, pompey, Blackburn, Sunderland....

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1 hour ago, cornish sam said:

Ooh, ooh, ooh, if we're playing this game then I get derby, Birmingham, pompey, Blackburn, Sunderland....

Excepting and excusing our failure, whatever works for you I guess. 

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20 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Excepting and excusing our failure, whatever works for you I guess. 

It's not about accepting or excusing our failure, it's about recognising that the game itself is failing. If you accept and excuse that then fine, as you say, whatever works for you, but, I'm not happy with the way football has developed and the only reason I have any actual interest in it anymore is because of Norwich. When we're not in the PL it might as well not exist, I'm proud that we're trying to do things differently but it is a very, very hard ask to overcome the way the game is stacked against us (and anyone outside the current "big clubs").

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20 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

It's not about accepting or excusing our failure, it's about recognising that the game itself is failing. If you accept and excuse that then fine, as you say, whatever works for you, but, I'm not happy with the way football has developed and the only reason I have any actual interest in it anymore is because of Norwich. When we're not in the PL it might as well not exist, I'm proud that we're trying to do things differently but it is a very, very hard ask to overcome the way the game is stacked against us (and anyone outside the current "big clubs").

The system isn’t the problem why we have done so badly. The fault lies at Norwich City. 

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2 hours ago, Big Vince said:

But the club has historically lost money in the Championship as soon as broadcasting income dries up. Revenue will fall to about £35 million. How will they break even?

Why are you asking me? Every club in the country outside of the Premier League will be in the same boat if the Premier League severs the link. What do you think will be the situation with all of the non-Premier League clubs if promotion to the Premier League stops happening for anyone entirely? I'm sure your crystal ball is every bit as good as mine, if not better. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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13 minutes ago, komakino said:

The system isn’t the problem why we have done so badly. The fault lies at Norwich City. 

The fact that the vast majority of promoted clubs are back down again within two seasons says otherwise. 

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18 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The fact that the vast majority of promoted clubs are back down again within two seasons says otherwise. 

If you’re trying deflect in any way how is going down is somebody else’s fault is pathetic. We have owners that are completely inadequate for any level of football. That’s the problem. 

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3 hours ago, komakino said:

The system isn’t the problem why we have done so badly. The fault lies at Norwich City. 

The system is a big part of the problem. Yes we have failed and should have done better, but the deck is stacked against anything but throwing huge amounts of money at it and hoping it sticks and there are plenty of examples where it hasn't!

2 hours ago, komakino said:

If you’re trying deflect in any way how is going down is somebody else’s fault is pathetic. We have owners that are completely inadequate for any level of football. That’s the problem. 

Our owners are paupers, by football standards, but the wealth of owners should not be the deciding factor. Before jack walker bought the title for Blackburn there wasn't as much of a correlation between spending and success, look at the teams that were successful in the 70s, 80s and pre prem 90s, it wasn't just money (yes, I know Liverpool dominated the league in the 80s but the league was more competitive top to bottom and the cup competitions were still actually competitive)

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Like it or not with our resources we operate in a narrow margin between 16 - 26 in the football hierarchy. 

 

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