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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

Charlie Cresswell makes absolutely no sense. Don’t need a centre back. We don’t need another teenager. 

and we don't need another loan, at least not in that position, which will probably be quite expensive. Money that could be put to better use elsewhere in the squad?

Besides, why should we help bring on one of the youngsters of our 'feeder' club? 🤔

 

Edited by BroadstairsR
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40 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

Charlie Cresswell makes absolutely no sense. Don’t need a centre back. We don’t need another teenager. 

I get it as a loan IF someone else is on their way, Zimbo or Gibson (if he isn’t likely to get game time). 

 

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No more loans please   if Cresswell comes in what does that do to Andy Omobalideles opportunities?  

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37 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

No more loans please   if Cresswell comes in what does that do to Andy Omobalideles opportunities?  

They play together with Hanley in a back 3? 

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It is another painfully slow transfer window for Norwich nothing learned from last season, we must be on our 4th choices for positions after this length of time

you couldn’t make it up 

 

 

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Loan to buy is an excellent way for a club like NCFC to do business. It gives us an opportunity to bring in PL capable players who might otherwise be reticent to sign a contract potentially committing themselves to 3-years or so in the Championship. For the club it means they haven't splashed out multi-millions on a player if we don't get promoted. What's not to like?

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7 minutes ago, Bert said:

It is another painfully slow transfer window for Norwich nothing learned from last season, we must be on our 4th choices for positions after this length of time

you couldn’t make it up 

 

 

You just did!

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18 minutes ago, Bert said:

It is another painfully slow transfer window for Norwich nothing learned from last season, we must be on our 4th choices for positions after this length of time

you couldn’t make it up 

 

 

‘Another’?  We got 9 players in last summer and bought two we’d had on loan-to-buy.

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1 hour ago, Yella Army said:

They play together with Hanley in a back 3? 

I guess, and they could even play together in a back 4, I normally feel happier when my defense is pretty experienced, only 1 youngster in there.

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2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

‘Another’?  We got 9 players in last summer and bought two we’d had on loan-to-buy.

Brought them in late, didnt integrate them in preseason, how did that work out ? 

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10 minutes ago, Haus said:

Brought them in late, didnt integrate them in preseason, how did that work out ? 

No we didn’t. Look at the dates - most were done in good time. Whether they were mainly crap is a different argument entirely. 

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3 hours ago, Newtopia said:

No more loans please...

Loans are a way of obtaining players that might not consider a transfer to a championship club. It worked OK for Forest last year:

Keinan Davis, James Garner, Djed Spence, Philip Zinckernagel were some of their key players.

We would be crazy to ignore the loans market just because we got it wrong last year.

 

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2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Loan to buy is an excellent way for a club like NCFC to do business. It gives us an opportunity to bring in PL capable players who might otherwise be reticent to sign a contract potentially committing themselves to 3-years or so in the Championship. For the club it means they haven't splashed out multi-millions on a player if we don't get promoted. What's not to like?

What like Gibson and Giannoulis and Hayden.   No loans, need our own team. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Badger said:

Loans are a way of obtaining players that might not consider a transfer to a championship club. It worked OK for Forest last year:

Keinan Davis, James Garner, Djed Spence, Philip Zinckernagel were some of their key players.

We would be crazy to ignore the loans market just because we got it wrong last year.

 

Quite. It’s a ridiculous notion to avoid loans - over the years some of our most crucial players have been.  Consider two seasons ago without Skipp.  Even last season, Williams did fine, the only real dud was Kabak, Normann was fine until injured.

 

Edited by Branston Pickle

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1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

It’s a ridiculous notion to avoid loans - over the years some of our most crucial players have been.  Consider two seasons ago without Skipp.  Even last season, Williams did fine, the only real dud was Kabak, Normann was fine until injured.

 

Missed Gilmour out.

Loan-to-buy will probably become increasingly common for a bit considering we're in a post-COVID economy.

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1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

It’s a ridiculous notion to avoid loans - over the years some of our most crucial players have been.  Consider two seasons ago without Skipp.  Even last season, Williams did fine, the only real dud was Kabak, Normann was fine until injured.

 

Think you missed off a certain dud from your loans list there 😉 probably the worst of the lot.

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1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Missed Gilmour out.

Loan-to-buy will probably become increasingly common for a bit considering we're in a post-COVID economy.

I did, didn’t I….shame we didn’t given how rings went.  Wrong player wrong time. 

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8 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

What like Gibson and Giannoulis and Hayden.   No loans, need our own team. 

Gibson was excellent in that first season and definitely helped us gain promotion. Giannoulis too was excellent and a definite improvement on Lewis, also netting us a multi-million profit into the bargain. Time will tell whether Hayden proves to be a similar asset, but I have yet to see a bad word said about him from the Newcastle fans. Further, loan to buy players are very different from an ordinary loan in respect of the fact that they have already conditionally committed their future to the club. Finally, do I really need to remind you that Huckerby and Skipp both came to the club on ordinary loans?

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15 minutes ago, Serinus Canaria Domestica said:

Think how much it is going to cost Forest to replace/upgrade that little lot! Enticing loans are two faced beasts.

 

You think they had the money prior to promotion to buy those players (or their like)?

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2 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Gibson was excellent in that first season and definitely helped us gain promotion. Giannoulis too was excellent and a definite improvement on Lewis, also netting us a multi-million profit into the bargain. Time will tell whether Hayden proves to be a similar asset, but I have yet to see a bad word said about him from the Newcastle fans. Further, loan to buy players are very different from an ordinary loan in respect of the fact that they have already conditionally committed their future to the club. Finally, do I really need to remind you that Huckerby and Skipp both came to the club on ordinary loans?

How dare you point out the massively obvious flaw in the argument!

Considering everyone seems to think our loans last season were all rubbish, surely we should be glad we didn’t actually buy any of them?!

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Badger said:

Loans are a way of obtaining players that might not consider a transfer to a championship club. It worked OK for Forest last year:

Keinan Davis, James Garner, Djed Spence, Philip Zinckernagel were some of their key players.

We would be crazy to ignore the loans market just because we got it wrong last year.

 

So of those 4 players, who has signed for Forest this season or (as the answer is none) who are they going to replace them with?  Answer so far £18.45m to replace Davis, something we would never do.    

Would be absolutely and utterly crazy to keep loaning players.  All the evidence says it doesn't work.    Gibson wasn't good enough in the EPL, neither was Giannoulis so we developed a Man Utd player instead.   Ask yourself this, did we replace Skipp?    If we don't get promoted have we played a Newcastle player for a whole season for nothing except failed /(missed the opportunity again) to develop one of our own?   And when we do get promoted how on earth do we replace them all plus Dowell, McLean, Hanley, Pukki (age), Sargent for another crack at the EPL.    Answer.... we can't possibly do that with our funding and at risk of destroying the team balance.   So time to develop our own.  

Or.... are those advocating loans happy to experience another season like the last one.   I doubt it but that's where we would be heading or can one of you offer any reasonable justified explanation as to why it would be any different next time!  

Edited by ged in the onion bag

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45 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

No rumours, just nothing happening, is Webber back in the city yet ?

I can't remember any rumours prior to Hayden's transfer being announced on the day. City quite rightly try to keep their deals secret. That may be frustrating for the fans but is clearly the best purchasing strategy.

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1 minute ago, ged in the onion bag said:

So of those 4 players, who has signed for Forest this season or (as the answer is none) who are they going to replace them with?  Answer so far £18.45m to replace Davis, something we would never do.    

Would be absolutely and utterly crazy to keep loaning players.  All the evidence says it doesn't work.    Gibson wasn't good enough in the EPL, neither was Giannoulis so we developed a Man Utd player instead.   Ask yourself this, did we replace Skipp?    If we don't get promoted have we played a Newcastle player for a whole season for nothing except failed /(missed the opportunity again) to develop one of our own?   And when we do get promoted how on earth do we replace them all plus Dowell, McLean, Hanley, Pukki (age), Sargent for another crack at the EPL.    Answer.... we can't possibly do that with our funding and at risk of destroying the team balance.   So time to develop our own.  

 

This is absurd. 

Skipp did work out, his role was to replace Tettey in a season where we needed a defensive midfielder, had limited funds and had no youngsters of sufficient talent coming through in the same position.

Your entire premise is based on the idea that we could have bought someone, with potential to perform the very next season in the premier league who we could be sure could also do the job in the Championship that season. 

The fact we didn't get a replacement for Skipp the season after is not the fault of the loan market.

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3 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

If we don't get promoted have we played a Newcastle player for a whole season for nothing except failed /(missed the opportunity again) to develop one of our own?   

Just about every fan for the last 2 years has been decrying the need for a strong central defensive midfielder. We now have one who has proven his value in the PL (see Newcastle fan comments). Perhaps you would like to identify the "one of our own" who you think we should risk developing instead. 

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5 minutes ago, horsefly said:

You think they had the money prior to promotion to buy those players (or their like)?

They probably havent the money and they haven't bought any of those players (only replaced one).     Unless that is sorted out then they have a problem coming like we did.    So yes, they helped them get to the EPL now what?    Will they be happy with the experience we just had?    I doubt it.     Not like they didn't get to the EPL with a great deal of help from that final referee was it.    Are they ready, I doubt that too. 

   

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20 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Quite. It’s a ridiculous notion to avoid loans - over the years some of our most crucial players have been.  Consider two seasons ago without Skipp.  Even last season, Williams did fine, the only real dud was Kabak, Normann was fine until injured.

 

I don't want to "avoid loans" per se but i do want to avoid loaning in players who we have no prospect of signing to play in positions where we are already reasonably well stocked.

Hayden is a good example of a good loan (assuming he's not rubbish) in that it improves a part of the squad where we do not have our own options and we know we can buy him if we get promoted.

Assuming Leeds will not give us an option to buy on someone like Cresswell it really would not make sense in the same way. 

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3 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

So of those 4 players, who has signed for Forest this season or (as the answer is none) who are they going to replace them with?  Answer so far £18.45m to replace Davis, something we would never do.    

I think the point is, that were promoted. I think that it is reasonable to conjecture that they might not have been without the loans. 

Would be absolutely and utterly crazy to keep loaning players.  All the evidence says it doesn't work.    Gibson wasn't good enough in the EPL, neither was Giannoulis so we developed a Man Utd player instead.   

This would suggest that "loan to buy" is an issue rather than simply "loan." 

Ask yourself this, did we replace Skipp?   

No.

If we don't get promoted have we played a Newcastle player for a whole season for nothing except failed /(missed the opportunity again) to develop one of our own?

If we do get promoted Hayden will sign for us. I don't think he would have done so without the initial loan option which allows him to leave if we fail to go up'

  And when we do get promoted how on earth do we replace them all plus Dowell, McLean, Hanley, Pukki (age), Sargent for another crack at the EPL.    Answer.... we can't possibly do that with our funding and at risk of destroying the team balance.   So time to develop our own.  

I certainly agree with you about the need to "develop our own." I think that we actually have a good record at it. Where we seem to have a point of difference is that I don't think that we can rely upon this totally. We need external recruitment as well - especially in the championship where the season  is so remorseless.

Denying ourselves access to loan players would be an act that restricts the pool of quality players available to us.

 

 

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