The Villa transfer raid in progress

[pete 318]

No surprise Smith trying to sign promising youngsters from Villa.  Both currently on loan and doing well enough so expect a hefty fee if Gerrard agrees to release.  One a winger not revealed if a left winger but most probably.  Will not be loaned out again after getting experience so will need to be permanent signings, it is not stated if Webber in agreement. 

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/ncfc-canaries-transfer-rumour-cameron-archer-philogene-bidace-892759

[Midlands Yellow 3,946]

1 minute ago, pete said:

No surprise Smith trying to sign promising youngsters from Villa.  Both currently on loan and doing well enough so expect a hefty fee if Gerrard agrees to release.  One a winger not revealed if a left winger but most probably.  Will not be loaned out again after getting experience so will need to be permanent signings, it is not stated if Webber in agreement. 

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/ncfc-canaries-transfer-rumour-cameron-archer-philogene-bidace-892759

If Webber can find a good signal on Everest communications shouldn’t be a major problem. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,680]

Madness when we get emi back

[ged in the onion bag 854]

9 minutes ago, pete said:

No surprise Smith trying to sign promising youngsters from Villa.  Both currently on loan and doing well enough so expect a hefty fee if Gerrard agrees to release.  One a winger not revealed if a left winger but most probably.  Will not be loaned out again after getting experience so will need to be permanent signings, it is not stated if Webber in agreement. 

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/ncfc-canaries-transfer-rumour-cameron-archer-philogene-bidace-892759

Poor journalism either way!    We couldn't and wouldn't afford to buy them.   As for loans that would represent a complete failure of the model and demonstrate we have no desire to create a team worthy of competing.   

Face it, we will never afford them.   If we loan them and they do well, it will be another position or positions we need to fill next season (delay the inevitable), would prevent our own players development and leave us with a hole to fill.    Its not happening!    The club surely will never loan players in again!   How could they possibly justify it?    

[KiwiScot 1,437]

I'm always a bit concerned when a manager tries to sign players from his last club as for some reason it strikes me that they can't identify any new ones.

[dylanisabaddog 4,877]

The link doesn't work for me. Hopefully this one is OK 

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/ncfc-canaries-transfer-rumour-cameron-archer-philogene-bidace-8927598

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Face it, we will never afford them. 

The link is dead so I can't see the figures quoted - why couldn't we afford them?

[Nuff Said 5,092]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

  The club surely will never loan players in again!   How could they possibly justify it?    

Because the loans can enable us to get promoted. We then use the extra cash raised to buy better players than if we’d stayed in the Championship. It’s not rocket science is it? Plus the PU article seems to specifically say it would be a purchase, not a loan (for Archer).

[ged in the onion bag 854]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

The link is dead so I can't see the figures quoted - why couldn't we afford them?

Both would be more expensive than Tzolis for starters.    Much more expensive - Villa have high hopes and expectations of them!  We are just being relegated, don't have the funds and wouldn't risk that kind of money.   

[toftwood 4]

36 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Both would be more expensive than Tzolis for starters.    Much more expensive - Villa have high hopes and expectations of them!  We are just being relegated, don't have the funds and wouldn't risk that kind of money.   

And that is all guesswork, you'r  just making stuff up!

[ged in the onion bag 854]

59 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Because the loans can enable us to get promoted. We then use the extra cash raised to buy better players than if we’d stayed in the Championship. It’s not rocket science is it? Plus the PU article seems to specifically say it would be a purchase, not a loan (for Archer).

Seems its not rocket science, was the last promotion worth it?    Are we in a better position than 12 months ago?    No, there is no evidence we are.... all we have is a load of players that we know can't play in the EPL and we don't have the attacking qualities we had previously in the EFL so what is the point of promotion at present.    No way will this lot develop to be good enough next season, the issues don't get addressed with loan players.   We loaned Skipp at the expense of addressing the CDM position, he (and Emi) got us promoted and what a shambles that has been since.... seems we are proven better at producing players than purchasing them and in the case of this season, than loaning them too.  Lets do what we seem better at, developing players.

Your point is just doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result, you're right, its not rocket science, its madness!  We simply aren't anywhere near an EPL side yet so why keep going there when some patience and development might just make the necessary difference.   We need more players of the required ability, a squad, not just a couple.  How will loans deliver that in our model.   Spending the promotion money won't address that, it didn't last summer did it and we had nothing left in January.    Your argument collapses in it's very first sentence when you say 'can', they probably 'won't' guarantee or deliver us promotion anyway, but they will prevent us developing our own so that is yet another risk (at some cost also) when we could be developing our own..... and at the end of the day, if we aren't good enough to go up, what is the point of it.  We could loan a player, come 3rd and stay down too, that would mean we'd spent the season developing someone else's player and have nothing to show for it.    Are you really up for another season like this?    How do you honestly think we will put together a competitive team with what we currently have and loan players.   

We have a stale group, they need changing, its not healthy continuing with the likes of McLean, Rupp, Zimmermann who have suffered twice and lack belief. 

Can you credibly answer these questions above?   or.... do you expect a loan player or two will get us promoted next season, that consequently will gain us the promotion money that will be spent well on enough players to make us competitive next time.  That's a lot of things that need to fall into place, especially when recent evidence suggests we aren't that clever when selecting players and spending the resources we have.    

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,680]

Are there any Villa players we can afford that would be improvements to our current crop?

[hertfordyellow 460]

3 hours ago, KiwiScot said:

I'm always a bit concerned when a manager tries to sign players from his last club as for some reason it strikes me that they can't identify any new ones.

Manager doesn’t buy the players. There is a transfer committee headed by Webber. Good try at a dig at Smith for no reason though.

[ged in the onion bag 854]

3 minutes ago, toftwood said:

And that is all guesswork, you'r  just making stuff up!

What stuff?    I didn't put figures on anyone.    My missus is a big Villa fan, she travels a long way to every home game and we take a keen interest in each others clubs.   I've seen them come through their ranks, these are quality kids, both with some first team experience who have both done well on their Championship loans until injury.   Preston and Stoke desperately want them back!  Villa are in no rush to offload them and by all accounts want them in the squad next season, certainly in pre-season.   

No idea what their current market values would be but I expect them to be at least £9m (if the Tzolis transfer is any marker) and if Villa were prepared to sell , probably more.  Do you seriously expect either to be in our financial range? 

Of course, that is just my opinion, so I'm not making stuff up, but it is at least an educated one.    

 

[ged in the onion bag 854]

15 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Are there any Villa players we can afford that would be improvements to our current crop?

No!  But there are plenty like Sorensen, Tzolis, Rowe, Idah, Omobamidele, Mumba, McAlear, Martin, Adshead, Clarke, Kamara, Tomkinson, Famewo, Sinani, etc. bustin for an opportunity and in the right setting, any one or more of them could thrive, become playing assets and valuable to boot! 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

4 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Poor journalism either way!    We couldn't and wouldn't afford to buy them.   As for loans that would represent a complete failure of the model and demonstrate we have no desire to create a team worthy of competing.   

Face it, we will never afford them.   If we loan them and they do well, it will be another position or positions we need to fill next season (delay the inevitable), would prevent our own players development and leave us with a hole to fill.    Its not happening!    The club surely will never loan players in again!   How could they possibly justify it?    

Something is seriously wrong if we can’t afford two Villa youth players with one first team appearance between them. 

[ged in the onion bag 854]

6 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Something is seriously wrong if we can’t afford two Villa youth players with one first team appearance between them. 

They have a few more than that including cups... Archer has 7 Championship goals in 18 appearances for an average Preston team, not bad for a kid.... but nothing is wrong, we have a model and certain funds.    Something is wrong with football in a wider context in terms of values but whats that got to do with Norwich City! 

[Badger 2,405]

2 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Both would be more expensive than Tzolis for starters.    Much more expensive - Villa have high hopes and expectations of them!  We are just being relegated, don't have the funds and wouldn't risk that kind of money.   

Thanks - I didn't know that. Sounds unlikely that Villa will sell - I can't see us spending £10 million plus on any teenagers next season. 

[Danke bitte 965]

2 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Seems its not rocket science, was the last promotion worth it?    Are we in a better position than 12 months ago?    No, there is no evidence we are.... all we have is a load of players that we know can't play in the EPL and we don't have the attacking qualities we had previously in the EFL so what is the point of promotion at present.    No way will this lot develop to be good enough next season, the issues don't get addressed with loan players.   We loaned Skipp at the expense of addressing the CDM position, he (and Emi) got us promoted and what a shambles that has been since.... seems we are proven better at producing players than purchasing them and in the case of this season, than loaning them too.  Lets do what we seem better at, developing players.

Your point is just doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result, you're right, its not rocket science, its madness!  We simply aren't anywhere near an EPL side yet so why keep going there when some patience and development might just make the necessary difference.   We need more players of the required ability, a squad, not just a couple.  How will loans deliver that in our model.   Spending the promotion money won't address that, it didn't last summer did it and we had nothing left in January.    Your argument collapses in it's very first sentence when you say 'can', they probably 'won't' guarantee or deliver us promotion anyway, but they will prevent us developing our own so that is yet another risk (at some cost also) when we could be developing our own..... and at the end of the day, if we aren't good enough to go up, what is the point of it.  We could loan a player, come 3rd and stay down too, that would mean we'd spent the season developing someone else's player and have nothing to show for it.    Are you really up for another season like this?    How do you honestly think we will put together a competitive team with what we currently have and loan players.   

We have a stale group, they need changing, its not healthy continuing with the likes of McLean, Rupp, Zimmermann who have suffered twice and lack belief. 

Can you credibly answer these questions above?   or.... do you expect a loan player or two will get us promoted next season, that consequently will gain us the promotion money that will be spent well on enough players to make us competitive next time.  That's a lot of things that need to fall into place, especially when recent evidence suggests we aren't that clever when selecting players and spending the resources we have.    

 

As always Ged, spot on. The Skipp loan as prime evidence was a failure in certain respects as we could never fill that gap with a player of that calibre when he went back. Though he was instrumental to that promotion as you’ve said time and again the loan blocked the way for our own development of a player in that position or one we had purchased out and out (Sorenson?). Loaning up and coming players only serve to paper over the cracks that we either don’t have someone waiting in the wings or can’t afford to purchase an “off the peg”. Having said that, im not completely against it if it’s in the capacity to add squad depth and not be relied upon like we did Skipp. 
 

And therein lies the conundrum, is it better to develop the playing squad for a few seasons running the risk of not getting promotion and therefore sinking into mediocrity or do we, once again, go up half baked and become the whipping boys we have the last couple of PL sojourns?

Edited April 29, 2022 by Danke bitte
Same point, different day

[essex canary 492]

6 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

If Webber can find a good signal on Everest communications shouldn’t be a major problem. 

Maybe Dean Smith will wait until Webber can't get a signal on Everest and then sign them?

[komakino 272]

It will be interesting to see how Smith and Webber work together - if the latter is still here in the summer. 

One would expect more English league signings that Smith knows will work, rather than the fishing further afield. 

Whatever happens, the recruitment must be better than last summer. Much better. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

Something is seriously wrong if we can’t afford two Villa youth players with one first team appearance between them. 

Who is saying we cannot afford them?

[norfolkngood 1,086]

28 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

As always Ged, spot on. The Skipp loan as prime evidence was a failure in certain respects as we could never fill that gap with a player of that calibre when he went back. Though he was instrumental to that promotion as you’ve said time and again the loan blocked the way for our own development of a player in that position or one we had purchased out and out (Sorenson?). Loaning up and coming players only serve to paper over the cracks that we either don’t have someone waiting in the wings or can’t afford to purchase an “off the peg”. Having said that, im not completely against it if it’s in the capacity to add squad depth and not be relied upon like we did Skipp. 
 

And therein lies the conundrum, is it better to develop the playing squad for a few seasons running the risk of not getting promotion and therefore sinking into mediocrity or do we, once again, go up half baked and become the whipping boys we have the last couple of PL sojourns?

i totally agree with the skipp loan and i much rather we give experience to our own players and gel a team 

But it could of worked if we loaned skipp knowing he was leaving to go back to spurs to spend all that season looking for a Replacement CDM

as soon as we went up that would of been mine and every fans No1 target ,

But Webber went Wingers and non scoring strikers a light weight midfielder 

Hindsight is wonderful and like many have said before if we bought and spent more money on a CDM and replaced Emi when he went i am sure we would have been better off spending more on quality than quantity

Right now i would clear out all the older players keeping Pukki and Krul  and rebuild with youth  

Brentford have proved a Team that has been kept together knows their jobs and system can stay up 

[KiwiScot 1,437]

2 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

 for no reason though.

Commenting on a thread that starts off talking about the manager(or the Head Coach should the term manager confuse the issue over someone having a say over a transfer)

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

4 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

Because the loans can enable us to get promoted. We then use the extra cash raised to buy better players than if we’d stayed in the Championship. It’s not rocket science is it? Plus the PU article seems to specifically say it would be a purchase, not a loan (for Archer).

Like we did with Skipp, great idea! 

[Danke bitte 965]

13 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Right now i would clear out all the older players keeping Pukki and Krul  and rebuild with youth

I get what you’re saying but there needs to be the odd player with experience in the mix too. Which is why I still don’t understand why they completely gutted that centre mid position (Tettey and Vrancic) leaving us with McLean and an injury prone Rupp last summer. 

 

[Danke bitte 965]

41 minutes ago, komakino said:

Whatever happens, the recruitment must be better than last summer. Much better. 

In fairness the bar’s pretty low..

Joking aside, I feel there’s a decent Championship side there but the centre midfield really needs the surgery.

[hertfordyellow 460]

29 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Commenting on a thread that starts off talking about the manager(or the Head Coach should the term manager confuse the issue over someone having a say over a transfer)

Both you and the original poster can be wrong. It’s not exclusive.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

28 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Like we did with Skipp, great idea! 

how we did not see that skipp was going to leave a Massive hole in that Midfield i will never know 

there must be a CDM in world football who we can afford and wages we can afford who is better than we have now !

just got to find him 

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

3 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

how we did not see that skipp was going to leave a Massive hole in that Midfield i will never know 

there must be a CDM in world football who we can afford and wages we can afford who is better than we have now !

just got to find him 

Even a loan would have done, just not Billy Gilmour!