Can't Argue With Any Of This But Some Will No Doubt.

[hertfordyellow 460]

3 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

Although the author suggested that the parachute payments would largely be used up on the Premier League level salaries of many of the squad.

Which is what the parachute was designed for. It’s still a large budget, larger than 20+ teams in the league. Retaining players is good, especially in the case of Sargent, Tzolis who, if they have a good championship season will be in a much better place to crack the premiership.

[Greavsy 2,412]

2 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

I believe it is but when away fans make for what for years was the traditional away pub The Compleat Angler and find they are not permitted in they just cross the road and go in The Nelson who are happy to have them in there.

Theyll let anyone drink in there! 

[Greavsy 2,412]

28 minutes ago, chicken said:

Majority of players have relegation clauses in their contracts. Exception to that rule has been made quite public and that is Pukki's extension of a year.

Pukki's extension doesnt not mean it doesnt have a relegation clause- in that his wages could still reduce in that eventuality.  

[TIL 1010 4,722]

5 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

If that's true it's changed in the last few weeks because the Nelson has been like fort knox after matches this season. The away fans are usually staying there. I only got in because I use the carpark entrance and I think the people on reception feel sorry for me.🙃

Walk past on the way to games and it is full of away fans outside on the terrace. Yesterday was probably the most packed it has been this season with them chanting ' F uck off to the Championship ' at Norwich fans crossing Foundry Bridge.

Nutty you go in after games but believe me before games it is the focal point for all away clubs and West Ham in a couple of weeks will  be packed before the game.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

4 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Just take Chicken’s word on it please, he’s unassuming, modest and respects all views that conflict with his own. 

He isn't the only one.

[corbs 147]

If they give me any lip on my journey from Hackney to Norwich I’ll let em know we taxpayers still want our 28 mill back. 

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

4 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Pukki's extension doesnt not mean it doesnt have a relegation clause- in that his wages could still reduce in that eventuality.  

Eh? Got lost in the triple negative…I think what you’re getting at is that the contract extension was mentioned at a certain rate but we’ve in the past been led to believe players are on ‘divisional’ contracts…

[nutty nigel 7,513]

7 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Walk past on the way to games and it is full of away fans outside on the terrace. Yesterday was probably the most packed it has been this season with them chanting ' F uck off to the Championship ' at Norwich fans crossing Foundry Bridge.

Nutty you go in after games but believe me before games it is the focal point for all away clubs and West Ham in a couple of weeks will  be packed before the game.

I can only say what I see and report back what happened to me. You may be right pre game. I never go then. But post game it's been like fort Knox. I understand it to a degree because, and especially post covid, hotel residents don't like the bars packed with football fans.

Don't remember if you were there back in 2019 when it was also packed with Newcastle fans who did a whip round for PUPs.

Saturday my post match entertainment included the directors entrance followed by a manboobian performance from the Toon army as they fought with wheelie bins whilst knocking on people's doors and windows 🙃

[TIL 1010 4,722]

5 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I can only say what I see and report back what happened to me. You may be right pre game. I never go then. But post game it's been like fort Knox. I understand it to a degree because, and especially post covid, hotel residents don't like the bars packed with football fans.

Don't remember if you were there back in 2019 when it was also packed with Newcastle fans who did a whip round for PUPs.

Saturday my post match entertainment included the directors entrance followed by a manboobian performance from the Toon army as they fought with wheelie bins whilst knocking on people's doors and windows 🙃

I am talking pre game Nutty so no maybe about it mate, Yesterday for example when i took ' Er Indoors to work at 10.30am there were swarms of Geordies milling around Foundry Bridge as i sat in the traffric and having tried their luck getting into The Compleat Angler they were straight down the steps opposite  and it is just the same when we play Laaandan clubs.

[chicken 2,605]

4 hours ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

So nothing concrete then, just assumptions from what's previously occurred?

I agree it's highly likely it's the case (it was in 2020) but just wondered if something had been said.

Thanks.

OTBC

Not assumptions really is it? It's based on evidence such as statements the club has made in recent past relegations, club accounts... even you say it is "highly likely it's the case (it was in 2020)" - so with that in mind, actual evidence would be needed to claim it's different no?

Or to put it another way, there would need to be evidence to suggest that for some reason, the club has thrown the concept and principles they have worked to since 2017 in the bin and have started handing out contracts without relegation clauses. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by chicken

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

7 hours ago, chicken said:

Not assumptions really is it? It's based on evidence such as statements the club has made in recent past relegations, club accounts... even you say it is "highly likely it's the case (it was in 2020)" - so with that in mind, actual evidence would be needed to claim it's different no?

Or to put it another way, there would need to be evidence to suggest that for some reason, the club has thrown the concept and principles they have worked to since 2017 in the bin and have started handing out contracts without relegation clauses. 

Maybe  DDJ went to a Steiner School and is therefore never actually wrong, and is just looking for credit for having an opinion despite what is known.... thats how that happy clappy form of education  works isnt it ?

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

Maybe  DDJ went to a Steiner School and is therefore never actually wrong, and is just looking for credit for having an opinion despite what is known.... thats how that happy clappy form of education  works isnt it ?

DDJ is better than many at dealing with evidence. 

Many on this forum have a complete disregard for any form of evidence and detail in fear that it might contradict their prejudices. 

The title of the thread is a good example of this. It assumes that a bog standard piece of juornalese is a combination of the holy grail and the deepest thought of an omniscient super-being! 😀

 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

DDJ is better than many at dealing with evidence. 

Many on this forum have a complete disregard for any form of evidence and detail in fear that it might contradict their prejudices. 

The title of the thread is a good example of this. It assumes that a bog standard piece of juornalese is a combination of the holy grail and the deepest thought of an omniscient super-being! 😀

 

Your support of the club is admirable, but can I suggest that what you say is a mistake made by the author of the article (our comparative budget compared to others pitching for promotion from the Championship next season) is not that far out. Norwich Watford and AN Other (it looks like one of Burnley, Everton or Leeds) will be relegated. I would suggest that Watford and A N Other will have bigger budgets than us. Ultimately we a pitching for one of three promotion places, and we (and you) do not know what other clubs will throw at promotion, particularly those that miss out this season, some of which have very wealthy owners in comparison to our owners. So whilst I accept what the author of the article says about our comparative budget is their opinion, what you say about our comparative budget is also an opinion (unless of course you know for certain what the budgets of all the Championship teams will be next season). So may I respectfully suggest that rather than a mistake, it is a difference of opinion..........

[Badger 2,405]

27 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Your support of the club is admirable, but can I suggest that what you say is a mistake made by the author of the article (our comparative budget compared to others pitching for promotion from the Championship next season) is not that far out. Norwich Watford and AN Other (it looks like one of Burnley, Everton or Leeds) will be relegated. I would suggest that Watford and A N Other will have bigger budgets than us. Ultimately we a pitching for one of three promotion places, and we (and you) do not know what other clubs will throw at promotion, particularly those that miss out this season, some of which have very wealthy owners in comparison to our owners. So whilst I accept what the author of the article says about our comparative budget is their opinion, what you say about our comparative budget is also an opinion (unless of course you know for certain what the budgets of all the Championship teams will be next season). So may I respectfully suggest that rather than a mistake, it is a difference of opinion..........

1. He didn't suggest that Burnley (or Everton) and Watford's would be bigger than ours, he said that ours would be a shoestring budget. It will be similar to Burnley or Watford's, given their debt and interest payments, ours will probably be higher. As for Everton - I really don't know what will go on there.

It is a simple fact that our turnover will be two three or even four times that of some of the other championship teams and most of this will spent on footballing costs - our budget. Nor will we have any interest costs to service. Even when the parachute payments run out (if we are not promoted) we will still have a top half budget for the Championship. Our poverty is exaggerated: at the championship level we are one of the richer teams. 

It is not a difference of opinion. Our budget will not be shoestring next year: he is simply wrong. (I can give you recent figures if you wish but I know that some find this boring.)

Edited April 25, 2022 by Badger
added more detail

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

7 minutes ago, Badger said:

1. He didn't suggest that Burnley (or Everton) and Watford's would be bigger than ours would be bigger than ours, he said that ours would be a shoestring budget. It will be similar to Burnley or Watford's, given their debt and interest payments, ours will probably be higher. As for Everton - I really don't know what will go on there.

It is not a difference of opinion. Our budget will not be shoestring next year: he is simply wrong. (I can give you recent figures if you wish but I know that some find this boring.)

Our budget will be better than most next season. And the attraction will be better. NCFC with a good chance of success or Birmingham with potential but nothing else.

However of course, WBA were expected to be automatic this season and may well finish bottom half. And Sheffield United may go back up.

[Badger 2,405]

5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Our budget will be better than most next season. And the attraction will be better. NCFC with a good chance of success or Birmingham with potential but nothing else.

However of course, WBA were expected to be automatic this season and may well finish bottom half. And Sheffield United may go back up.

We will have one of the biggest budgets - but this does not have to transfer into playing success - it often doesn't. It is naïve to think that we can easily repeat what we did last time.

Although statistically we have quite a good chance of gaining promotion, unfortunately however, statistically we are far more likely to get relegated from the Premier league than to get promoted from the championship.

[king canary 7,580]

18 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Our budget will be better than most next season. And the attraction will be better. NCFC with a good chance of success or Birmingham with potential but nothing else.

However of course, WBA were expected to be automatic this season and may well finish bottom half. And Sheffield United may go back up.

I think the fact Sheffield United still have a solid chance of going straight back up shows how difficult it is for parachute payment clubs to really mess it up.

Ownership issues, barely any investment in the squad after relegation, a manager sacked halfway through the season and replaced with their u23 manager whose track record is patchy at best, continued reliance on a 36 year old Billy Sharp for goals and yet still in the top 6.  

[Nuff Said 5,092]

23 hours ago, hogesar said:

It seems according to some that if youre not calling Webber a c*nt outside the city stand you're no longer allowed to point out factual mistakes in an article. 🙃

This

[Nuff Said 5,092]

23 hours ago, hogesar said:

All the right noises but likely to finish even worse than the season before.

And this

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

1. He didn't suggest that Burnley (or Everton) and Watford's would be bigger than ours, he said that ours would be a shoestring budget. It will be similar to Burnley or Watford's, given their debt and interest payments, ours will probably be higher. As for Everton - I really don't know what will go on there.

It is a simple fact that our turnover will be two three or even four times that of some of the other championship teams and most of this will spent on footballing costs - our budget. Nor will we have any interest costs to service. Even when the parachute payments run out (if we are not promoted) we will still have a top half budget for the Championship. Our poverty is exaggerated: at the championship level we are one of the richer teams. 

It is not a difference of opinion. Our budget will not be shoestring next year: he is simply wrong. (I can give you recent figures if you wish but I know that some find this boring.)

I accept what you say and I understand how you have reached your opinion...........

[hogesar 9,618]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

I think the fact Sheffield United still have a solid chance of going straight back up shows how difficult it is for parachute payment clubs to really mess it up.

Ownership issues, barely any investment in the squad after relegation, a manager sacked halfway through the season and replaced with their u23 manager whose track record is patchy at best, continued reliance on a 36 year old Billy Sharp for goals and yet still in the top 6.  

Yep, although I think next season will see a little bit of normality return and championship teams starting to invest in their squads again, making it harder.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

4 hours ago, Badger said:

DDJ is better than many at dealing with evidence. 

Many on this forum have a complete disregard for any form of evidence and detail in fear that it might contradict their prejudices. 

The title of the thread is a good example of this. It assumes that a bog standard piece of juornalese is a combination of the holy grail and the deepest thought of an omniscient super-being! 😀

 

Sure, i was only taking the pi55  anyway. DDJ is a good sport,  The OP   however is fairly snidey in the way he presents his view as fact. After all , he thinks its not on to look at the pinkun when on holiday.... needless to say hes not that busy , except when on holiday.  😇

 

[Nuff Said 5,092]

While waiting for a work call to start, I copied this into a Word document and did a few word counts:
"If" occurs 17 times, "assume" - 3 times and "may" twice. Plus one "perhaps", one "maybe" and phrases like "as I understand it", "it appears" and "it's to hard to picture any other scenario". In other words, it is peppered with assumptions and little in the way of facts.

 

Then there are frequent uses of other logical fallacies, for example:

"But I see nothing wrong with wanting this club to go one better" (i.e. stay up). Who is has said they don't want the club to stay up in the Premier League? (No, Delia and Michael haven't said this - they said there are lots of things to dislike about the Premier League which most people would agree with no matter their views on the ownership of NCFC).

"if (very big if) under our current guise we do manage to go up again at the end of next season, we’ll continue to remain uncompetitive" - will we? If a couple of our signings (say Tzolis and Kabak) has come good, we could be a couple of places higher. That's all it takes, one or two decent signings. By all means criticise our scouting and recruitment (while remembering that they also found Pukki and Buendia) but poor recruitment is not the same as it being physically impossible to succeed in the PL as we are.

"The notion that Delia Smith and Michael Wynn-Jones are literally the only two people capable of owning and controlling this football club is wearing a little thin." - Again, no-one has said this.

Then there's the shoestring thing as Badger has pointed out and so on.

 

tl;dr - it's poorly written and doesn't make sense. Emotion trumping realism.

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

Sure, i was only taking the pi55  anyway. DDJ is a good sport,  The OP   however is fairly snidey in the way he presents his view as fact. After all , he thinks its not on to look at the pinkun when on holiday.... needless to say hes not that busy , except when on holiday.  😇

 

TBH, nearly everything he writes is snidey except the historical things. he is always trying to find some way to run the club down, without ever providing evidence for his views. I think that his opposition to the club ownership is personal - possibly political, I don't know - it is certainly long standing.