Norman, Mc!ean, Gilmour, Lees-Melou

[unique 466]

Have we ever started a top flight game with such an ineffective midfield four?

Abject, powder-puff, without a goal threat amongst them, I wouldn’t care if they were never to pull on a Norwich City shirt ever again.

Would anyone care to come to their defence?

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

Not me. Two loanees. We were hoping to base our season on two loanees.

[mannings bandy legs 439]

Think Normann could hold is own in a better team. Gilmour is prob ok when surrounded by 6'2" athletes protecting him...........as for the other two..................................

[cambridgeshire canary 7,797]

Normann is ok, but walking injured. Gilmour is probably decent but only in better teams than us and surronded by better players. And so neither of them suit us well. Not sure about Lees-Melou.. And less said about Mclean the better

[mannings bandy legs 439]

....and to think we were at one time looking at Jarred Bowen......oh well.

 

 

 

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

Happy for them all to leave in the summer, the 2 loanees can clear off today quite frankly. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

I reckon they’d all probably look ok as the “other one” of a two-pronged midfield base alongside someone like, I dunno, Oli Skipp.

As I said elsewhere, they’re all beige. Ok at all aspects but don’t excel at anything. I still think Normann gets an easier ride than the others. It’s neither here nor there really as I don’t think there is a combination that would be strong enough defensively to see us graft enough points or offensively to craft enough points. 

[Move Klose 303]

2 hours ago, unique said:

Have we ever started a top flight game with such an ineffective midfield four?

Abject, powder-puff, without a goal threat amongst them, I wouldn’t care if they were never to pull on a Norwich City shirt ever again.

Would anyone care to come to their defence?

You can add Rupp to that list, blokes hamstrings are made of playdoh Play 1 game, miss 6, then repeat

Edited April 3, 2022 by Move Klose

[astro 423]

Lees-Melou needs to be played more centrally as he has a wonderful long range pass. It was tried once and we looked pretty decent, but he was then inexplicably moved out to allow room for Gilmour. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by astro

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

McLean's problem for me is that his propensity to chase everything unsettles everyone else in there, he isn't always the most diligent getting back when he's been overtaken and it leaves the whole midfield shape a little bit exposed. It's pretty clear to me that he and Lees-Melou are a bit too similar in terms of having a drive to go forward, and it doesn't exactly help Lees-Melou get his own game going if he's having to watch out what Kenny's doing. I thought we looked tidiest in midfield with Lungi and Lees-Melou together but there wasn't much of a sample to work with. That said, Lungi quietly stayed ten yards behind Lees-Melou who could drive forward without having to worry about a turnover caused by one of McLean's shonky passes.

If McLean was hitting cutting throughballs on a regular basis, or regular turnovers, it would be a different story, but he's not. Normann and Gilmour should be rested for Lungi now as far as I'm concerned unless their loan clauses are similar - payment for the loan is reduced the more games they play, which is apparently the case for Gilmour.

I'd like to see Rupp get another year in the Champs, but his injury record is beginning to make me think "only on considerably lower wages as an extremely good senior pro/rotation option". We're certainly a couple light and you'd think we'd find one that's more of a tackler alongside Lungi - or even an upgrade on Lungi.

[Chichcan 149]

17 minutes ago, astro said:

Lees-Melou needs to be played more centrally as he has a wonderful long range pass. It was tried once and we looked pretty decent, but he was then inexplicably moved out to allow room for Gilmour. 

Absolutely this. 

When we beat Everton at home we had Sorensen and Lees-Melou in central midfield and I thought it was the best we've looked all season there

He started the same line-up against Watford until Sorensen got injured and he's not tried it since

[Monty13 2,736]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Normann is ok, but walking injured. Gilmour is probably decent but only in better teams than us and surronded by better players. And so neither of them suit us well. Not sure about Lees-Melou.. And less said about Mclean the better

I think Lees-Melou and Sorensen for its short lived time actually loooked our best midfield this season, but that’s mainly because they ran around chopping the opposition down and the ball mostly bypassed them. Pretty much sums up our midfield for me.

[astro 423]

14 minutes ago, Chichcan said:

Absolutely this. 

When we beat Everton at home we had Sorensen and Lees-Melou in central midfield and I thought it was the best we've looked all season there

He started the same line-up against Watford until Sorensen got injured and he's not tried it since

That’s the game. I thought it must have been the second half of the Chelsea game, which would explain the dropping of Gilmour, but yes, it was the Everton game. 

[Samwam27 606]

Trouble is Smith in this weekends interview called "Mclean" a players player, as he's great with the players and in the dressing room.

To me that counts for nothing as he might be great in the dressing room, but he's consistently poor to average at best on the pitch. Has energy, and good at pointing, but I don't believe his stats are great for interceptions, duals won, passes, and lets not get into assists or goals 

With Gilmour and Normann going (& the latter admitting he's playing badly and doesn't want to play in EFL) it beggers disbelief Smith hasn't dropped them and tried Sorensen & PLM as a central two

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

4 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

Trouble is Smith in this weekends interview called "Mclean" a players player, as he's great with the players and in the dressing room.

To me that counts for nothing as he might be great in the dressing room, but he's consistently poor to average at best on the pitch. Has energy, and good at pointing, but I don't believe his stats are great for interceptions, duals won, passes, and lets not get into assists or goals 

With Gilmour and Normann going (& the latter admitting he's playing badly and doesn't want to play in EFL) it beggers disbelief Smith hasn't dropped them and tried Sorensen & PLM as a central two

Good in the dressing room but not a leader on the pitch.

And where this idea that Normann is that good comes from is beyond me. He had one good game. But I suppose compared to Kenny and Gimour that is a result.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

Normann was the only player I considered to be genuinely Premier League class, but his form has dipped, and whilst I wont hold that against him, he has stopped being our stand-out player. Understandable with injury, but whilst I was gutted we wouldnt be signing him Im not too bothered any more.

Gilmour is a luxury player. Needs to be carried by top quality team mates in order to be able to contribute. I think RvW was probably a luxury player - think he could have scored goals in a team that put things on a plate for him, but Norwich in the PL cant afford any luxury players.

Kenny has work-rate, like Rupp, but is miles off the quality needed at PL level and is only even average in the championship. Lees-Melou has offered next to nothing after some promising signs at the start of the season. Might be a different player at championship level, but seems to be Tony Andreu Mark II.

 

Gut the lot of them, start again IMO.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

I tend to think of it in Football Manager terms. If I want a better player, I have to first get rid of the one I dont rate.

They may have played almost a full Premier League season, but, based on performances, would any of them really have impressed any watching scouts?

What kind of team would take McLean off our hands? We'd want a fee for him and he'd want decent wages. What on earth would have impressed another team to the point they'd want to stump that up over other options?

Rupp could probably return to Germany quite easily. PLM might be a useful player a level down, that's an unknown, but we know Kenny is bang average and does nothing exceptionally well, so he'd be hard to offload.

Seeing as he seems to be more popular with managers than the fans, what kind of fee for Kenny would be enough to tempt us? Would anyone like to guesstimate?

Edited April 3, 2022 by The Great Mass Debater

[Monty13 2,736]

22 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Gut the lot of them, start again IMO.

Unfortunate reality is we can’t afford to.

Normann and Gilmour will be gone in the summer. Leaves Rupp (if we extend), McClean, Sorensen and Lees-Melou. They are all adequate to good Championship midfielders.

Rather than getting rid and buying/bringing in another five or six I’d rather keep them and add one, possibly two if any of the four left leave, quality additions personally.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Monty13

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

10 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Unfortunate reality is we can’t afford to.

Normann and Gilmour will be gone in the summer. Leaves Rupp (if we extend), McClean, Sorensen and Lees-Melou. They are all adequate to good Championship midfielders.

Rather than getting rid and buying/bringing in another five or six I’d rather keep them and add one, possibly two if any of the four left leave, quality additions personally.

I think the problem would be getting rid of what we have if we did want to

[Monty13 2,736]

2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I think the problem would be getting rid of what we have if we did want to

Well we can choose to release Rupp I believe that leaves McClean, Sorensen and Lees- Melou. Can’t see any takers for the first two but I think we could easily find a loan for Lees-Melou in France, but to what end?

If we need 3-4 CMs they aren’t likely going to be any better than what we have. I’d rather buy 1-2 that actually improve those 4.

We loaned out Drmic and bought Hugill as an example, what did we really get from that business? Now both are on loan with the club likely still paying significantly for the privilege. I just don’t see how we can be bleating about lack of money while being so obviously wasteful with it.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

Unless things have changed I thought the money had dropped out of French football, hence why PLM came in the first place. Cant see anyone in France being able to afford him if the money has gone. 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

I dont think there is any desire to be rid of Rupp or McLean. Fans may not be too keen but both Farke and Smith seem to be fans

[Indy 3,471]

I’m at a loss to what Sorensen has done to **** everyone off at City! Every time he’s played he’s looked decent, elegant on the ball and reads the game!

I could understand him not getting a game if the midfield played well……but it’s like the old saying! The definition of madness is playing the same players and expecting a different outcome! I agree with those above surely time to give others game time!

[Big O 287]

If it is to be Dean Smith in charge next year he needs to quickly define how we are going to play as our midfield needs a major overhaul. Are we going back to 4-2-3-1 or sticking with a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3. I can see PLM and Sorenson being the only ones here come start of the season. 

[canarybubbles 2,199]

9 minutes ago, Indy said:

I’m at a loss to what Sorensen has done to **** everyone off at City! Every time he’s played he’s looked decent, elegant on the ball and reads the game!

I could understand him not getting a game if the midfield played well……but it’s like the old saying! The definition of madness is playing the same players and expecting a different outcome! I agree with those above surely time to give others game time!

Instead of changing the players, we change the formation. Is there one we haven't tried by now?

[Monty13 2,736]

22 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Unless things have changed I thought the money had dropped out of French football, hence why PLM came in the first place. Cant see anyone in France being able to afford him if the money has gone. 

Be exactly the same situation as Drmic/Klose etc. I imagine, us paying for a decent portion of it, why I don’t see the point.

[Ulfotto 798]

Adams, Goss,Megson, Ullathorne.

Is a probably line up towards the end of 93/94.

[Kenny Foggo 1,193]

I think Dean Smith said recently that our model relied on the squad not getting many injuries, if we had any hope of being competitive, yet the genius that is Webber signs Byram, Normann etc... 

[Kenny Foggo 1,193]

Its so bad at the moment I am starting to recall Mark Fotheringham with slight fondness... help!

[hertfordyellow 462]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

I’m at a loss to what Sorensen has done to **** everyone off at City! Every time he’s played he’s looked decent, elegant on the ball and reads the game!

I could understand him not getting a game if the midfield played well……but it’s like the old saying! The definition of madness is playing the same players and expecting a different outcome! I agree with those above surely time to give others game time!

He broke into the side and then got a bad injury. I think him and lees-meleu were the preferred choice.