Why aren't we Brentford?

[king canary 7,603]

13 hours ago, chicken said:

If it sounded like I underestimated what is needed I didn't mean to, however, I think you over-cook what is needed.

Tettey is case in point. A much loved player people feel we have missed. A great passer? No. The energy and combativeness - yes. You could say the same of Andrew Crofts though we brought in Johnson to replace him as he wasn't the best on the ball. Gary Holt even.

Those are out and out defensive midfielders. Then you have the likes of Johnson, Howson, who can play a similar role but have more going forward, and can play more advanced if needed - especially Howson who was more a CM. I think Normann is possibly more of a Johnson, just with less of the rough edge to ruffle feathers quite so, brashly.

But, if we are talking about replacing Tettey, which we are really. Though people say Skipp, Skipp actually did keep Tettey to part time responsibilities last season.

One player we supposedly had eyes on in the past is Vaulks. He's available on a free this coming summer and it's largely rumoured they're not going to try and keep him at Cardiff. Not sure what folks think of him, he's 28, will be 29 come September... but could have done a job and surely wouldn't have cost the earth.

Someone else has suggested a player from Huddersfield.

Lets put it another way. I'm not sure a player like those, when given a chance to step it up a division, could struggle as much as some of our players have this season. We seem to lack that desire to gamble on a Championship player as Lambert, Karsa and Culverhouse did. And we had a pretty combative side back then, down the middle and wide. 

I think the caveat is finding a defensive midfielder for a Farke team is very tough.

He reportedly didn't use Amadou, a player with a decent amount of pedigree, as he wasn't comfortable enough on the ball. Finding a player who is both solid enough defensively to provide cover to maurauding fullbacks mobile enough to break up counters and cover the pitch side to side is tough. Finding one who can do that PLUS is comfortable enough to play the kind of football Farke wanted to play at Premier League level is borderline impossible.

It does feel like there was a gap between how Webber and Farke viewed Sorenson in this regard- Webber obviously thinks he's good enough as he gave him an extended deal that can run until 2025 in the summer, yet Farke refused to use him. 

Whether he steps up under Smith and somewhat settles the DM debate we'll see but I do think finding a Dean Smith type defensive midfielder (Douglas Luiz or Marvellous Nakamba at Villa were his choices generally) will probably be a bit easier.

[aBee 151]

13 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think the caveat is finding a defensive midfielder for a Farke team is very tough.

He reportedly didn't use Amadou, a player with a decent amount of pedigree, as he wasn't comfortable enough on the ball. Finding a player who is both solid enough defensively to provide cover to maurauding fullbacks mobile enough to break up counters and cover the pitch side to side is tough. Finding one who can do that PLUS is comfortable enough to play the kind of football Farke wanted to play at Premier League level is borderline impossible.

It does feel like there was a gap between how Webber and Farke viewed Sorenson in this regard- Webber obviously thinks he's good enough as he gave him an extended deal that can run until 2025 in the summer, yet Farke refused to use him. 

Whether he steps up under Smith and somewhat settles the DM debate we'll see but I do think finding a Dean Smith type defensive midfielder (Douglas Luiz or Marvellous Nakamba at Villa were his choices generally) will probably be a bit easier.

I’m not sure Smith has a preferred DM type - he couldn’t quite work out whether to play Romaine Sawyers or Ryan Woods as one or more attacking and was fine with Woods being sold and Josh McEachran doing the DM job (think of Cantwell if he were made of glass and had one career goal in 100+ appearances). 
 

[Yellowhammer 86]

On 02/04/2022 at 17:08, cambridgeshire canary said:

Obligatory thread is obligatory. Someone was going to make it, so I'll do it. Have a feeling people willl stop talking about them when they get relegated next season mind.. 😉

We are not Brentford because we are and always will be little old Norwich 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Yellowhammer

[chicken 2,624]

2 hours ago, Yellowhammer said:

We are not Brentford because we are and always will be little old Norwich 

Mainly because folks try to make out we're something we're not resulting in fans of clubs who are much bigger reminding those folks of that being the case.

Not sure why the only people that keep bleating on about "little old Norwich" are generally the ones trying to use it as a stick to beat other people with who have never said it... literally if you didn't mention it, no one would.

[Yellowhammer 86]

10 hours ago, chicken said:

Mainly because folks try to make out we're something we're not resulting in fans of clubs who are much bigger reminding those folks of that being the case.

Not sure why the only people that keep bleating on about "little old Norwich" are generally the ones trying to use it as a stick to beat other people with who have never said it... literally if you didn't mention it, no one would.

Ok admit never heard anyone say that , but I went to Liverpool to visit the cavern ect and got a cab and the cabbie a reds  fan talked football , like most people I feel,  he said he liked Norwich as they are a family club , owned and run by British people and to be admired , but they will go nowhere as they can’t compete with the multi millionaire clubs . He said most people must see them as a nice little club , who now and again produce some good players , but then sell them . 

[chicken 2,624]

On 07/04/2022 at 07:50, Yellowhammer said:

Ok admit never heard anyone say that , but I went to Liverpool to visit the cavern ect and got a cab and the cabbie a reds  fan talked football , like most people I feel,  he said he liked Norwich as they are a family club , owned and run by British people and to be admired , but they will go nowhere as they can’t compete with the multi millionaire clubs . He said most people must see them as a nice little club , who now and again produce some good players , but then sell them . 

It's all a matter of perspective isn't it? "most people" is a lovely turn of phrase used to give weight to ones argument without giving actual weight to ones argument.

However, he's a cabbie in Liverpool. Chances are, he is used to premier league fans and fans of the cities two clubs. When you put yourself in that position, then sure, a lot of the fans that get in and out of his cab are likely to be Liverpool and Everton fans along with other teams like Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City etc etc etc.

In the grand scheme of things, the majority of fans of those clubs, and a good few others will see us as "small" or "little". I'm not sure it is unfair of them to say or think so considering the size of the clubs they support. Comparatively we are "small".

Go and speak to fans in the football league - which he is less likely to speak to, or care about the opinions of, and you'll get a different story. I have relatives that support MK Dons, Aldershot and an uncle that supports Arsenal. I can assure you none of them think of Norwich as "little". My grandfather was a West Ham fan, as was my uncle as a small lad before he rebelled and supported Arsenal. The one thing the both had was an incredibly good knowledge of the football league. Between them they could name all of the grounds, grounds capacities and last appearance in a cup final etc.

Essentially what I am saying here, is that for the best part of the last 50 years, at least one and then two divisions of the  English football league system have looked up to our club for being more successful and bigger. Things can and do change, but generally, we are not a small club, neither are we a big club. In terms of home attendances we are a yo-yo club. Some seasons, depending upon who is in the premier league, we rank higher in that regard than a good handful of premier league clubs. Equally, we typically rank higher than the majority of the championship clubs, sometimes topping the charts.

So no, I don't expect a Scouse cabbie to have the best perspective, and nor would I pay it too much heed. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by chicken

[aBee 151]

On 03/04/2022 at 11:09, Midlands Yellow said:

Who’s in the running for your player of the season award? 

From the voting on MotMs on the messageboard, Norgaard is well clear of Toney at the top. 

[CrankyCanary 32]

Brentford have taken the long road they've been at their approach longer than us and had built up a better more cohesive team over a longer span of time, creating an identity to go with it. Not to mention they have a (not quite, but getting their) farm team in Mydtjylland. We haven't had the opportunity to do that because we keep bouncing between divisions not having the time to create that identity. We really need to plateau in the Championship again in order to create that ethos and identity. I'll stop saying identity now I'm boring myself.

[aBee 151]

9 hours ago, CrankyCanary said:

Brentford have taken the long road they've been at their approach longer than us and had built up a better more cohesive team over a longer span of time, creating an identity to go with it. Not to mention they have a (not quite, but getting their) farm team in Mydtjylland. We haven't had the opportunity to do that because we keep bouncing between divisions not having the time to create that identity. We really need to plateau in the Championship again in order to create that ethos and identity. I'll stop saying identity now I'm boring myself.

It’s strange though that there’s been very little player movement between FCM and Brentford. The relationship is subtler in that the statistical methods were started there and the recruitment team head oversees both. Post-Brexit it is possible some more players might come via them if there are work permit issues going direct to England. But it’s only since we went up that we became the big brother and FCM is run to be successful in its own right. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,704]

6 hours ago, aBee said:

It’s strange though that there’s been very little player movement between FCM and Brentford. The relationship is subtler in that the statistical methods were started there and the recruitment team head oversees both. Post-Brexit it is possible some more players might come via them if there are work permit issues going direct to England. But it’s only since we went up that we became the big brother and FCM is run to be successful in its own right. 

Another good result today for you fair play

[aBee 151]

10 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Another good result today for you fair play

And for you- still a chance as Everton are catchable. If nothing else you can go down fighting.