Webber’s mountain climbing training

[Kenny Foggo 1,173]

Maybe the fact that 70% of a 1000 City fans voting to blame recruitment for our ultimate failure this season means he is in hiding or just embarrassed.

700 out of a 1000... that's IMPRESSIVE

[Mengo 839]

9 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Your aggressive defence of this issue is just really odd.

Of course in the absence of clear information from the club/Webber people are making assumptions and speculating on how this will affect Webber’s ability to do his job effectively based on what we know. This is a forum after all.

You are making a supposition yourself by defending it as presumably having no impact?

Still waiting on how much you personally think this will affect his ability to do his role from the last thread?

 

Monty 13. Agree with you but look at who you are trying to reason with

What a load of nonsense.

SQUIT. 

the poster is very odd as you say and has a big problem  with verbal diarrhea.  Maybe he is the man's PA. Who knows.

Strange being he she or it is🤭

 

'What a load of ole squit'

Translation: What a load of nonsense. Another classic Norfolk phrase that popped up quite a lot in the comments can be used to describe when someone is talking utter nonsense. The literal translation of this isn't very clean, so we'll stick with nonsense!

[canarydan23 4,650]

8 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Does the same apply to parents working away from home for prolonged periods then? Not to mention I'd be pretty surprised if Webber and his missus have not put measures in place as a fall-back. If Webber's not there, then grandparents might be, or a childminder might be.

 I don't doubt the genuine nature of your approach to fatherhood, but calling Webber a narcissist - a term that's ultimately a psychiatric term - just because his style of parenting doesn't tally with yours is a low blow.

There's a stark difference between working away from home to provide for your family and disappearing to pursue a past time and fulfil a personal ambition.

Whether narcissist was too strong is up for debate, but it is undoubtedly an incredibly selfish pursuit, even without the relatively high chance of that absence becoming permanent.

[TheGunnShow 7,126]

13 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

There's a stark difference between working away from home to provide for your family and disappearing to pursue a past time and fulfil a personal ambition.

Whether narcissist was too strong is up for debate, but it is undoubtedly an incredibly selfish pursuit, even without the relatively high chance of that absence becoming permanent.

There's a difference in the motivation, but the basic outcome is the same, namely a family member is away for a prolonged period of time.

Using the term narcissist outside professional confines runs the risk of diluting the term, so I think that's out of place, to be honest.

I don't think it's remotely selfish either. If anything, I would reverse it. If a person has such an adventure as a deeply-held ambition, and has put back-up plans in place/agreed this with their family beforehand, I would consider it far more selfish if they said he shouldn't.

[king canary 8,425]

48 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

There's a stark difference between working away from home to provide for your family and disappearing to pursue a past time and fulfil a personal ambition.

Whether narcissist was too strong is up for debate, but it is undoubtedly an incredibly selfish pursuit, even without the relatively high chance of that absence becoming permanent.

The thing is, if you're two people on high 6 figure salaries then you can go and do this sort of stuff because you've likely got all the support you need. 

Money lets you do these more selfish pursuits.

[hogesar 10,390]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

It is a shame because for a period under the new structure I thought comms between the club and the fans were significantly improved- you had Webber and the owners going to talk to local, fan created podcasts, regular access to players and generally a lot of transparency between the higher ups in the club and the fans. That seems to have dropped off a fair bit and instead the club is seemingly becoming a bit more inward.

Without coming across overly cynical, I think it was easy for the club to be so incredibly open when it had such a high % of the fanbase on board, loving the manager, players and the style of play.

When they're constantly 'under attack' it becomes a much more difficult job. A braver one too. 

Not saying that Webber isn't capable of doing that as he did relatively frequently in our first relegation but id argue his position was under much less scrutiny that time.

[priceyrice 133]

My main concern here is that this is a sign Webber will be staying and the directors have granted him this leave on the basis he stays around for another season. Hope I'm wrong!

[canarydan23 4,650]

51 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

There's a difference in the motivation, but the basic outcome is the same, namely a family member is away for a prolonged period of time.

Using the term narcissist outside professional confines runs the risk of diluting the term, so I think that's out of place, to be honest.

I don't think it's remotely selfish either. If anything, I would reverse it. If a person has such an adventure as a deeply-held ambition, and has put back-up plans in place/agreed this with their family beforehand, I would consider it far more selfish if they said he shouldn't.

Agreed it with his kid/kids, of which at least one is primary school age? And a primary school age kid would be selfish is they said, "Daddy, I'd rather you stayed with me than climbed a mountain that has claimed more lives than any other"?! I think you've lost the plot in this thread, old boy.

And I don't really get your umbrage with the term narcissist outside of a professional context. The word existed long before there was a profession known as psychiatry. To be honest, he's portrayed traits of narcissism before this Everest endeavour was even a thing. This, for me, is more confirmation than the source of my suspicions.

[canarydan23 4,650]

25 minutes ago, king canary said:

The thing is, if you're two people on high 6 figure salaries then you can go and do this sort of stuff because you've likely got all the support you need. 

Money lets you do these more selfish pursuits.

For sure, you can't do it without money (it costs upwards of £25k to even attempt it, never mind make suitable arrangements for the family you're leaving at home whilst you pursue your privileged hobby).

A few years back I had a bit of a mountain-climbing fascination, Everest in particular, watched Netflix documentaries and read a couple of books and the back stories of some of the people who never came back down. I would love to give it a go at some point in my life and it's certainly something on my bucket list (although a good few positions down from the top).

However, I could win £100 million plus on the EuroMillions, have the ability to hire the world's greatest au pairs, nannies, cleaners, cooks to be in place whilst I'm away and still wouldn't consider doing it at a stage of life when my kids are so young and in need of their old man.

[TheGunnShow 7,126]

7 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Agreed it with his kid/kids, of which at least one is primary school age? And a primary school age kid would be selfish is they said, "Daddy, I'd rather you stayed with me than climbed a mountain that has claimed more lives than any other"?! I think you've lost the plot in this thread, old boy.

And I don't really get your umbrage with the term narcissist outside of a professional context. The word existed long before there was a profession known as psychiatry. To be honest, he's portrayed traits of narcissism before this Everest endeavour was even a thing. This, for me, is more confirmation than the source of my suspicions.

The term narcissist is a specific diagnosis nowadays, so bandying it around is somewhat irresponsible. The term might have existed before psychiatry, but psychiatry has taken it - that's the nature of language change. Apply that to just about any mental health term, the same principle applies, particularly when the terms are used by non-professionals.

I have no doubt he'll have agreed that with his wife and plans will have been put in place so their kids aren't unduly affected. Considering the nature of his work (and his salary/his wife's salary), I suspect he would already have a very strong support system in place.

[nutty nigel 7,844]

Not for me. I can't even get up the steps to the Gunn club...

[Mengo 839]

10 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Agreed it with his kid/kids, of which at least one is primary school age? And a primary school age kid would be selfish is they said, "Daddy, I'd rather you stayed with me than climbed a mountain that has claimed more lives than any other"?! I think you've lost the plot in this thread, old boy.

And I don't really get your umbrage with the term narcissist outside of a professional context. The word existed long before there was a profession known as psychiatry. To be honest, he's portrayed traits of narcissism before this Everest endeavour was even a thing. This, for me, is more confirmation than the source of my suspicions.

 To be honest, he's portrayed traits of narcissism before this Everest endeavour was even a thing. This, for me, is more confirmation than the source of my suspicions.

if it was possible he would kiss his own ****😉. Maybe after all the training he's been doing he's actually managed it by now.

 

[Badger 2,743]

3 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Maybe the fact that 70% of a 1000 City fans voting to blame recruitment for our ultimate failure this season means he is in hiding or just embarrassed.

700 out of a 1000... that's IMPRESSIVE

I don't know that 70% is impressive at all? On the basis of what I've seen, I would have expected 95% at least!

Ignore the surveys though: they are meaningless and just a bit of fun.

[Badger 2,743]

4 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

For me this one sentence sums up, everything that is wrong with NCFC communications at the moment and it has been getting worse this last year.

Maybe the OSP could ask the relevant questions at their next meeting with the club which i understand is early in April.

@Lessingham Canary @Feedthewolf.

To be fair though, they did say that they totally understood why why he didn't want to speak to them at the moment.

He would have had to to maintained the line that staying up was still a possibility, so there would be very few productive outcomes from such an interview.

Better to wait until our fate is confirmed and then have a more honest appraisal.

[king canary 8,425]

21 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

The term narcissist is a specific diagnosis nowadays, so bandying it around is somewhat irresponsible. The term might have existed before psychiatry, but psychiatry has taken it - that's the nature of language change. Apply that to just about any mental health term, the same principle applies, particularly when the terms are used by non-professionals.

I have no doubt he'll have agreed that with his wife and plans will have been put in place so their kids aren't unduly affected. Considering the nature of his work (and his salary/his wife's salary), I suspect he would already have a very strong support system in place.

Is it? Narcissistic personality disorder is a diagnosis but narcissm isn't exclusively something displayed by people with NPD.

[king canary 8,425]

15 minutes ago, Badger said:

To be fair though, they did say that they totally understood why why he didn't want to speak to them at the moment.

He would have had to to maintained the line that staying up was still a possibility, so there would be very few productive outcomes from such an interview.

Better to wait until our fate is confirmed and then have a more honest appraisal.

Yep. I see quite a few 'where is Webber to talk about this shambles' takes but he clearly isn't going to start doing a post mortem until we're actually down.

[Mengo 839]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

Is it? Narcissistic personality disorder is a diagnosis but narcissm isn't exclusively something displayed by people with NPD.

OK how about just go with this.

Narcissistic personality disorder involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. Others often describe people with NPD as cocky, manipulative, selfish, patronizing, and demanding.

if the cap fits. I think it's a good fit for him ..Huge ego. 

[Mengo 839]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Yep. I see quite a few 'where is Webber to talk about this shambles' takes but he clearly isn't going to start doing a post mortem until we're actually down.

Agreed. 

[TheGunnShow 7,126]

14 minutes ago, king canary said:

Is it? Narcissistic personality disorder is a diagnosis but narcissm isn't exclusively something displayed by people with NPD.

Precisely, NPD is a diagnosis. Narcissism is essentially a combination of 9 traits that - if enough of them are pervasive (five, as far as I'm aware) - result in said diagnosis. Can easily say the same for autism, and it may be easier to explain that way as it's well accepted that autism is very much a spectrum. Most people will demonstrate the odd narcissistic / autistic trait here and there. It doesn't remotely mean they have narcissistic personality disorder / are autistic.

The problem when lay people use this is that it inadvertently dilutes the term and causes misunderstanding about it. Heck, I don't think it's particularly smart when even practitioners use it to remote-diagnose people as they're basically going off hear-say. Going for Webber and using it looks like a very cheap ad-hom attack, frankly.

Edited March 29, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[canarydan23 4,650]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Going for Webber and using it looks like a very cheap ad-hom attack, frankly.

Yeah, but you think a mother going on maternity leave looks like a man missing work to climb a mountain. 

[TheGunnShow 7,126]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

Yeah, but you think a mother going on maternity leave looks like a man missing work to climb a mountain. 

No I don't. I said they result in the same outcome for the company who hires them, namely a long-term absence that must be handled. One gets mandatory time off, the other is dependent on goodwill. One gets quietly accepted and if something goes askew, the company in question is nailed on to get the flack, and rightly so. On the other, the person in question is getting flack. Obvious double standard.

Either way, if reorganisation is not done or the resulting work is not performed then the issue lies with the club, not the person taking leave.

[canarydan23 4,650]

4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Obvious double standard.

Nope.

[king canary 8,425]

4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

No I don't. I said they result in the same outcome for the company who hires them, namely a long-term absence that must be handled. One gets mandatory time off, the other is dependent on goodwill. One gets quietly accepted and if something goes askew, the company in question is nailed on to get the flack, and rightly so. On the other, the person in question is getting flack. Obvious double standard.

Either way, if reorganisation is not done or the resulting work is not performed then the issue lies with the club, not the person taking leave.

I can't believe you're still digging down on this utterly dumbass logic.

Just because the outcomes of two things are the same it doesn't follow that judging the causes of those outcomes differently is double standards.

By this logic there is no difference between and employee firing someone for being bad at their job or firing them for being gay. The outcome is the same, the person is fired. However it isn't double standards to say its OK to fire someone for the first reason but not for second.

 

[TheGunnShow 7,126]

2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Nope.

Wrong.

[canarydan23 4,650]

12 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

No I don't. I said they result in the same outcome for the company who hires them, namely a long-term absence that must be handled. One gets mandatory time off, the other is dependent on goodwill. One gets quietly accepted and if something goes askew, the company in question is nailed on to get the flack, and rightly so. On the other, the person in question is getting flack. Obvious double standard.

Either way, if reorganisation is not done or the resulting work is not performed then the issue lies with the club, not the person taking leave.

Double standard implicitly implies an element of unfairness. If a person leaves work, in particular one of/the most senior people in an organisation, to pursue a hobby and the organisation struggles, they both deserve flak. If a company struggles in the absence of a mother on maternity leave, absolutely nothing is on the mother in that situation and it would be grossly unfair to give that mother flak (illegal if that flak came from the employer).

It's a little odd this needs explaining to you.

[TheGunnShow 7,126]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

I can't believe you're still digging down on this utterly dumbass logic.

Just because the outcomes of two things are the same it doesn't follow that judging the causes of those outcomes differently is double standards.

By this logic there is no difference between and employee firing someone for being bad at their job or firing them for being gay. The outcome is the same, the person is fired. However it isn't double standards to say its OK to fire someone for the first reason but not for second.

 

That comparison misses the point so it's false equivalence. The double standard lies in social expectations and where criticism would be aimed at, not what the company does.

[nutty nigel 7,844]

What if he's had a little 'un and is taking paternity leave up Mount Everest?

[king canary 8,425]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Double standard implicitly implies an element of unfairness. If a person leaves work, in particular one of/the most senior people in an organisation, to pursue a hobby and the organisation struggles, they both deserve flak. If a company struggles in the absence of a mother on maternity leave, absolutely nothing is on the mother in that situation and it would be grossly unfair to give that mother flak (illegal if that flak came from the employer).

It's a little odd this needs explaining to you.

It isn't even implicit- the Oxford dictionary definition mentioned the standards being unfairly applied.

The more he digs down the more I'm convinced its just 'woe is me' whinging that he doesn't get to take 9 months off paid for whatever reason he fancies.

[king canary 8,425]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

What if he's had a little 'un and is taking paternity leave up Mount Everest?

Might get more sleep to be fair.

[TheGunnShow 7,126]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

Double standard implicitly implies an element of unfairness. If a person leaves work, in particular one of/the most senior people in an organisation, to pursue a hobby and the organisation struggles, they both deserve flak. If a company struggles in the absence of a mother on maternity leave, absolutely nothing is on the mother in that situation and it would be grossly unfair to give that mother flak (illegal if that flak came from the employer).

It's a little odd this needs explaining to you.

You just managed to say how it was unfair in your first paragraph, and yet somehow, you missed it!

The Club has granted Webber this, so it is fair to assume that they're OK with it! So, if things do go wrong, it's entirely their issue! If it is considered harsh or below the belt to criticise a mother in that situation (and yes, it is illegal if from the employer), then the double standard is saying Webber deserves flak regardless even though the Club has granted permission for it.

I actually think this is a really laudable, progressive move in employment terms by the Club itself re. sabbaticals and hope all staff have that option available to them. The justifiable criticism, as per the discourse with Monty, is that the Club haven't communicated how duties will be resolved, or indeed how Webber will still perform what duties.