VAR Again (again again again)

[hogesar 10,390]

VAR at the Everton game decides this is a red card. Just remember Aylings challenge in the Leeds game which VAR said was only a yellow...

 

[cambridgeshire canary 7,595]

Wipes him out from behind without getting the ball, clear yellow at the very least. Bit iffy it's a red though..

[king canary 8,425]

Quite enjoy the scouse voice you can hear at the end of that clip shouting 'EVERY ****ING GAME!'

But yeah no idea how that is a red and Ayling isn't. There is just zero consistency.

[Jim Smith 2,498]

Even worse, guess who the VAR official was at Everton.

that's right - Stuart Atwell. 

[hogesar 10,390]

26 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Even worse, guess who the VAR official was at Everton.

that's right - Stuart Atwell. 

Yeah I learnt that after posting. Horrendous 

[hogesar 10,390]

9 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Wipes him out from behind without getting the ball, clear yellow at the very least. Bit iffy it's a red though..

Not iffy. Its never a red. Not if the same ref decides Aylings challenge isn't 

Edited March 18, 2022 by hogesar

[Ulfotto 757]

Clearly it is now totally random what is deemed a clear and obvious.

This is my main issue with VAR. Stay on field unless it is a total and utter howler. Was the yellow card here a total howler no it wasn’t was the Ayling one no.

But similarly neither would have any complaints if the on field ref had sent them off because again that is not a howler.

 

[hogesar 10,390]

Also what's the point in the ref going to the monitor? Have they ever disagreed with VAR?

[dylanisabaddog 5,823]

6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Also what's the point in the ref going to the monitor? Have they ever disagreed with VAR?

My big issue with the penalty given at Leeds then taken away was that the ref only looked at one camera angle before he changed his decision. 

[Jim Smith 2,498]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Yeah I learnt that after posting. Horrendous 

There is a school of thought that it could be a result of “feedback” after a couple of the decisions at the weekend, including the non red for Ayling. Not really a consolation.

[Jim Smith 2,498]

25 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

My big issue with the penalty given at Leeds then taken away was that the ref only looked at one camera angle before he changed his decision. 

I agree and what concerns me is it was (or appeared to be) a super slo mo of just the point of impact. Which is deceptive as you get no context. Because of it people say “oh he trod on his leg” but if you watch back the longer replay or the real time replay you see that it happens because Ayling lunges in. You can’t tell the force or the direction of movement accurately from these super slow mos. But they seem to be selected by the VAR official to make the ref change his mind. 

[Greavsy 2,592]

42 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Also what's the point in the ref going to the monitor? Have they ever disagreed with VAR?

It's to appease the crowd, and make it appear that the on pitch ref is in control and its his final decision, although we know the reason he's gone to the monitor is because the var operative has said "you may want to look at that again" 

It's preemptive face saving in my view. 

[pearsos 56]

The really sad thing about all this is that before VAR referees made mistakes, now they make clear and obvious errors.

Who decides on the latter? Another referee sitting in his little box, who next week could be the on field referee making a clear and obvious error, according to the VAR official who last week was the on field referee who made a clear and obvious error.

Confusing?

9 times out of 10 it’s about opinion, unless it’s goal line technology or offside.

 

[Feedthewolf 5,693]

At first sight it's a shocking inconsistency from Stuart Attwell between upholding a yellow for Ayling's challenge and then upgrading a less serious foul from Allan to a red.

As has been said elsewhere, though, as a result of his balls-up on the Ayling tackle, they've likely been told to be stricter on studs-up challenges, hence him upgrading Allan to a red. That's no defence of VAR, just guesswork as to why the decision was made.

What happens now? The whole football world condemns the decision to send off Allan, so they call the refs together again and tell them to not be quite so harsh on studs-up challenges?

Football is a free-flowing game of human error, and I'm sure we could all accept a little bit of inconsistency from referees if they had complete control over their decision-making. VAR is an absolute blight on the game, and by far the biggest silver lining of our impending relegation will be not having to put up with its arbitrary, atmosphere-killing bullsh*t.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Feedthewolf

[canarydan23 4,650]

5 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

At first sight it's a shocking inconsistency from Stuart Attwell between upholding a yellow for Ayling's challenge and then upgrading a less serious foul from Allan to a red.

As has been said elsewhere, though, as a result of his balls-up on the Ayling tackle, they've likely been told to be stricter on studs-up challenges, hence him upgrading Allan to a red. That's no defence of VAR, just guesswork as to why the decision was made.

What happens now? The whole football world condemns the decision to send off Allan, so they call the refs together again and tell them to not be quite so harsh on studs-up challenges?

Football is a free-flowing game of human error, and I'm sure we could all accept a little bit of inconsistency from referees if they had complete control over their decision-making. VAR is an absolute blight on the game, and by far the biggest silver lining of our impending relegation will be not having to put up with its arbitrary, atmosphere-killing bullsh*t.

Looks pretty studs up to me from Ayling.

It's the same person. In the same week. There is no explanation bar the only feasible remaining conclusion. EPL football is utterly corrupt. The only question now is what will be the Lance Armstrong on Oprah moment. Mike Riley with Emily Maitlis; did you manipulate football matches to achieve favourable results? Yes. Did you consider the clubs involved when making VAR decisions? Yes. Were you given guidance as to the league's favoured outcomes before matches and before season's started? Yes.

Corruption. We're watching WWE guys.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

It just goes to show, you cannot have two opinions or else what is the point of the referee? Offside yes because it is so accurate its not an opinion. But anything else is just plain stupid. Ref says one thing, VAR, by calling over the ref is asking whether he wants to see it in slow motion. Why? The game is played at normal speed.

[Jim Smith 2,498]

I’m now firmly back in the scrap it and go back to the day when refs made errors occasionally. Perhaps keep it for offsides, maybe but to be honest I’d rather just get rid entirely. Even when they get the decisions right it still ruins the game. No flow, no ability to genuinely celebrate a goal. It’s rubbish. 
 

At its worst it’s awful with subjective decisions influenced by the VAR reds from afar. And it means we spend all our time micro analysing offences and tackles post game and talking about VAR rather than the football. 
 

it’s crap and those implementing it are incompetent. 

[Jim Smith 2,498]

20 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Looks pretty studs up to me from Ayling.

It's the same person. In the same week. There is no explanation bar the only feasible remaining conclusion. EPL football is utterly corrupt. The only question now is what will be the Lance Armstrong on Oprah moment. Mike Riley with Emily Maitlis; did you manipulate football matches to achieve favourable results? Yes. Did you consider the clubs involved when making VAR decisions? Yes. Were you given guidance as to the league's favoured outcomes before matches and before season's started? Yes.

Corruption. We're watching WWE guys.

The only thing in defence of Atwell here (and I think he’s rubbish) is that he was the on field ref for our game so actually it was Dean who should have been telling him to go and look at it again on the monitor. If Atwell is consistent then based on his intervention last night he would surely have shown a red had he been shown the replays we’ve all seen. Similarly it will have been Dean who decided to intervene and persuaded him to change his mind on the pen by showing him the deceptive slow mo of that incident. 
 

 

[chicken 3,008]

To be honest, in the Liverpool game, there was a tackle on Normann which was pretty evil as well. Again, barely an eyelid batted. 

 

[Feedthewolf 5,693]

54 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Looks pretty studs up to me from Ayling.

It's the same person. In the same week. There is no explanation bar the only feasible remaining conclusion. EPL football is utterly corrupt. The only question now is what will be the Lance Armstrong on Oprah moment. Mike Riley with Emily Maitlis; did you manipulate football matches to achieve favourable results? Yes. Did you consider the clubs involved when making VAR decisions? Yes. Were you given guidance as to the league's favoured outcomes before matches and before season's started? Yes.

Corruption. We're watching WWE guys.

I didn't say Ayling's tackle wasn't studs up? Ayling's was as clear a red card as you'll see, as evidenced by the photo you posted.

All I'm saying is that there might have been an edict from PGMOL telling VAR to be stricter on serious foul play, as not sending off Ayling for that tackle is a pretty bad look. Also, I thought Attwell was the VAR for the Leeds-Norwich match, rather than the on-field ref, so it's not the same VAR making the two decisions (Ayling and Allan).

The inconsistency is laughable, and VAR is a farce – don't think I'm disputing that for a second. In fact, I'm actually wearing my Along Come Norwich 'FCK VAR' T-shirt as I type this... 🙂

[hogesar 10,390]

I'm 95% certain that VAR decisions are largely made based on the entertainment value they'll bring the TV audiences.

[canarydan23 4,650]

9 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Along Come Norwich 'FCK VAR' T-shirt as I type this

It should be FCK VAR. VAR isn't the problem, it's a tool to enable the corruption. If someone hits you over the head with a hammer, get angry at the person using it, not the hammer.

If ACN sell FCK Mike Riley and his corrupt band of cheating twats, I might buy one.

Edited March 18, 2022 by canarydan23

[Mengo 839]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

I'm 95% certain that VAR decisions are largely made based on the entertainment value they'll bring the TV audiences.

Maybe your wrong . Maybe your right hoggy who knows. One thing is for sure it's definitely detracting my take on the original game of good old football for the people who matter. (The paying Fan). Enquiries after the games and apologies are becoming almost a match by match normal 😬 reality. Its killing the game we love so much. Its sh*t 💩

[Feedthewolf 5,693]

3 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It should be FCK VAR. VAR isn't the problem, it's a tool to enable the corruption. If someone hits you over the head with a hammer, get angry at the person using it, not the hammer.

If ACN sell FCK Mike Riley and his corrupt band of cheating twats, I might buy one.

Surely it is a very big problem if it's enabling corruption? If it allows the PL/officials time to go into granular detail on minutiae and millimetres in order to (potentially, allegedly) reach the decision that best suits its interests, that's reason enough to want it removed from the game? 

[canarydan23 4,650]

13 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Surely it is a very big problem if it's enabling corruption? If it allows the PL/officials time to go into granular detail on minutiae and millimetres in order to (potentially, allegedly) reach the decision that best suits its interests, that's reason enough to want it removed from the game? 

Video replays has the ability to enhance sport, there are plenty of examples. It's the people applying it that have ruined it for football, not the technology itself. And the sad thing is, it looks like they're ruining it deliberately, not because they're just ****ing useless.

[Feedthewolf 5,693]

2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Video replays has the ability to enhance sport, there are plenty of examples. It's the people applying it that have ruined it for football, not the technology itself. And the sad thing is, it looks like they're ruining it deliberately, not because they're just ****ing useless.

I can't wait to not have to talk about this next season. I can't wait to be able to celebrate a goal with all my heart and soul rather than a tentative placeholder cheer while we wait for three minutes to see if some tw*t in a Portakabin can find a reason to disallow it.

[Nexus_Canary 1,162]

29 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I'm 95% certain that VAR decisions are largely made based on the entertainment value they'll bring the TV audiences.

100%
The corruption in the Prem is disgusting and obvious to any of the clubs who are getting blasted by it.
I would love to see a club invest in some high end lawyers and take the league to court.
As earlier stated, Prem league is fixed and we are watching choreographed Sports Entertainment just like the WWE. 

[canarydan23 4,650]

Just now, Feedthewolf said:

I can't wait to not have to talk about this next season. I can't wait to be able to celebrate a goal with all my heart and soul rather than a tentative placeholder cheer while we wait for three minutes to see if some tw*t in a Portakabin can find a reason to disallow it.

I agree, but I'm not looking forward to witnessing blatant penalties go unrewarded or blatant dives winning penalties.

It's not a binary choice between the corruption-enabling VAR we have and the woeful refereeing we witness regularly (and will be grumbling about ad nauseam next season) without it.

[Feedthewolf 5,693]

5 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I agree, but I'm not looking forward to witnessing blatant penalties go unrewarded or blatant dives winning penalties.

It's not a binary choice between the corruption-enabling VAR we have and the woeful refereeing we witness regularly (and will be grumbling about ad nauseam next season) without it.

Referees will always be 'woeful', because the human brain is programmed to remember negative outcomes more than positive ones. Football has done nothing to change the culture that the referee is a w*nker, and as a result it's acceptable for us to pile on them at every turn. It's the level of scrutiny of every single decision that means referees will never be seen as 'good enough', unless we give the on-field referee absolute power, mic them up, and give them carte blanche to discipline anyone who gives them dissent. It'd be chaos for a few weeks and we'd end up with eight-a-side, but sooner or later you'd find players pulling their team-mates away from referees, and fans understanding how and why refs reach the decisions they do.

What we have at the moment is closed ranks at PGMOL, unwavering support of referees from the 'powers that be' irrespective of how bad they are, a VAR system that encourages intense scrutiny of minutiae, no referee being willing (or being permitted?) to show human qualities and explain their decisions, and supporters being in no way dissuaded from piling on the officials at every opportunity. The whole thing is f*cked.

[Jim Smith 2,498]

24 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I can't wait to not have to talk about this next season. I can't wait to be able to celebrate a goal with all my heart and soul rather than a tentative placeholder cheer while we wait for three minutes to see if some tw*t in a Portakabin can find a reason to disallow it.

They are supposedly bringing in “var light” in the championship aren’t they? Imagine how bad that could be with even worse refs!