Is anyone happy?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,680]

I would much rather have drunken aunt Delia being a little cringeworhy and embarrassing running our club than some corrupt oil baron who makes his money off of slave labour and wars but..

 

That doesn't mean I'm happy with Delia at the same time.

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

It's interesting. There'll be some fans who genuinely don't care or relate to the feeling of it being 'our club', it's all about money and Premier League survival. That's fine, there's always going to be different types of fans.

Let's not rule out the possibility of keeping that feeling with different owners - it's definitely possible. Is it likely? Takeovers in the past 10-15 years suggest no, though.

Obviously i've not enjoyed this season but it's also not the be all and end all. I'm not obsessed with the Premier League, it just so happens to be the top league in our country and I like to see us competing at the highest level we can. It's just a shame it has to be in such a morally corrupt division. 

I'm not sure they'd admit it today but plenty of those who want Delia Out would have taken Abramovic at any point in the last few years. They would probably still take it today, if they're honest. I wouldn't.

Good post.

It's a dilemma regarding club ownership. Most people are up in arms at other clubs being taken over by owners with questionable morals. Some of us say that they'd have nothing more to do with their club if it happened to them but then go strangely quiet when it does. Not a dig at you but if Abramovic or someone from a country with an even worse human rights record somehow took over Norwich are you saying you'd give up following the team ?

In truth I think most of us would just say, " Oh well " sit back and look forward to domestic and European glory. Fair play if you wouldn't be among them.

[Badger 2,405]

56 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Truth is clubs like Leicester or Wolves are just as firmly embedded in their comunity if not more so than us, depsite their foreign owners. 

Your community point may well be true - but are you sure that these two pass the ethical owners test?

Wolves owner, Guo Guangchang is a member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. Thailand's Human Rights record is not great and the Leicester owners have had some quite close associations there as well. 

[Danke bitte 965]

Football is a form of entertainment. And entertainment is, at its core, supposed to be enjoyable to an extent or create some kind of affiliation / conversation with others who also seek to be entertained.

Losing all the time, being bummed out because you can’t compete with other clubs, hearing people moaning or talking negative about the affairs at the club is not entertaining - ok, you could argue it’s a rollercoaster ride or “what do you expect?” or other clubs’ fans say the same thing. But really, the pattern of up and then down without a whimper is borderline masochistic now. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,738]

4 hours ago, kenfoggo said:

What has made me unhappy the most about this season is that we proved all the detractors absolute correct. We do not belong in the Premiership, we have proved that to everyone one more time. Shame on the whole Club .

Yes and no

Many of the detractors at the start of the season were accusing us of not investing and just taking the money, which just wasnt true

We spent £65 odd million , the 11th (?) highest in Europe.

Its the 'who' we've spent the money on which is the issue and thats on Webber (and Farke)

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,680]

23 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

Football is a form of entertainment. And entertainment is, at its core, supposed to be enjoyable to an extent or create some kind of affiliation / conversation with others who also seek to be entertained.

Losing all the time, being bummed out because you can’t compete with other clubs, hearing people moaning or talking negative about the affairs at the club is not entertaining - ok, you could argue it’s a rollercoaster ride or “what do you expect?” or other clubs’ fans say the same thing. But really, the pattern of up and then down without a whimper is borderline masochistic now. 

Or as Delia recently put it 'I like it when we lose as it makes it more fun when we win!'

 

🙃

[Danke bitte 965]

19 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Or as Delia recently put it 'I like it when we lose as it makes it more fun when we win!'

 

🙃

I didn’t realise she said that. 🤨 Tbh I steer clear of anything published about the owners, as it’s an easy target for negativity and just makes me angry. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

Good thread. The apple is rotten at the core - and we are one of a very few clubs trying to not succumb to it. NCFC is not that innocent - it exists in that corrupt world after all, but our ideals as a club are still way above most clubs in the top two divisions. I still feel a connection with the club after a long time away from Norfolk - and I am pretty sure that has been down to the Delia factor in keeping our club on a community footing and having high ideals.

It's been a bumpy ride, facing almost extinction along the way, but finding a way through it. Even the last four years, from a position of huge financial weakness and an aging expensive squad and a struggling academy, with covid, huge injury problems and a complete upheaval of playing and managememt staff, we are still in the Premier League, where quite a lot of clubs would love to be and haven't been for many years.

So it's been tough again, but it's not embarrassing, there is no shame to it and if other club's fans take the p**s, so what, let them. F*** them.  As for wanting some new owners, new money, or whatever, then where is that going to come from?  Seriously - where is it going to come from?  Self-funding may not be attractive to some people, but it has kept us ahead of the curve - we are punching above our weight getting promoted regularly - and why is that?  BECAUSE WE ARE A FANTASTIC FOOTBALL CLUB.  Sorry for shouting, but it needs to be said. The progress made at the club in the last four years is absolutely phenomenal. Finances sorted, a plethora of good young players at the club which will be developed to maintain our footballing prowess and a continuation of the family atmosphere at the club that we are well known for and for which many clubs look at us with awe and envy.

So we've had a bad season. Boo hoo. It's not been pleasant and I agree that it is easier for me to not be quite so affected compared to those that go regularly to games, but it is still the same football club that gets promoted regularly, instead of clubs with loads of money and if we go down, as looks likely, we will still have a good set up for making another challenge.  I would have preferred to have kept Farke, but Smith, or maybe another, will take it on and because we are still in a great position financially and as a club with good youngsters coming  through, we will do well again.

PL? I could take it or leave it. I'd rather finish 20th at least keeping our principles intact than finshing 20th having spent stupid amounts of money. We are what we are. If you don't like it, fair enough, but to be honest it does come across as people complaining for the sake of complaining and always comparing ourselves to others in envy, rather than trying to appreciate what we've got. Nobody likes losing and this season has been awful in most respects, but once that is out of the system, whether we make a miraculous recovery, or go down, we are still Norwich City. Be proud of it - and don't wish away stuff that actually makes us what we are.

To answer the op, yes I'm happy with the structure of the club, but I'm not happy with these difficult seasons. But I don't see that these difficult seasons are a reason to change anything much - just keep to the ethos and principles we have, the owners to bring in good people on the football side - as they frequently do - and we will develop further along a self-sustainable and progressive route.  In the last four years I've seen football unparralelled in all the years of watching us play and that includes the early 90's, as good as that was - and under John Bond at it's best. But we are in a different world now - dirty money is everywhere, VAR is ruining the sport, officials not seemingly  capable of bringing in simple rules that would stop some of the nonsense that goes on quite easily.  In truth, it is f****d - but having said that, NCFC is a club that maintains certain values that set it apart from all that. If we lost that, I would find it very hard to follow us anymore. We are a great club because of who we have in charge. Love it or risk losing it.

[sgncfc 1,223]

4 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Happy days at the Cottage, they’ll do fine next season. 

No they won't; not unless they spend £100m. The players they have are nowhere near good enough.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,680]

8 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

No they won't; not unless they spend £100m. The players they have are nowhere near good enough.

Mitrovic, Carvalho, Wilson and Reed are from my time watching them probably their best players and do seejm like very good players. But prem quality? Time will tell. Then again it's Fulham and they seem to always do what we do so.. Probably finish bottom next season

Edited March 15, 2022 by cambridgeshire canary

[Indy 3,286]

I lost love of football as an experience since around 2004, I kept my season ticket for nearly 25 years before finally giving it up in 2016, I found that to park I had to be in the city earlier every year! Meaning my Saturday morning golf was sacrificed, then it got to the point of costing me and my wife around £80 + each home weekend and to top it all those in the lower Barclay next to the snake pit were, changing guys we’d been friends with for years either passed away, changed seats or just stopped coming! Those taking over were to coin a phrase modern day fans, not wanting to sit, meaning some old regulars who couldn’t stand all game were constantly arguing with them, they were more interested in their phones than the game and I saw more trouble between strewards and fans then I liked.

it became a chore to attend for me, I’ve not regretted giving up football for far more relaxing weekend playing golf and having a drink at the 19th!

On a different note, I have attended 20 odd Oxford games since then and I find the experience a far more connected experience, the fans are there as supporters not just plastics and the connection between the club, players and owners is far better than here at Norwich. No real egos thus you can have a chat to players and enjoy their banter, Taylor and Brannigan are real down to earth guys, bit like our old school days of Iwan and Hucks who I found very pleasant and always had time.

It’s just not for me anymore and that’s why I look at things from a far and my opinions are purely based on remote viewing and listening. But premiership certainly isn’t the best experience for real football, some of you younger supporters should try a game at Kings Lynn or that level to connect.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Indy

[nutty nigel 7,513]

At some point, not sure when, a lot of fans have gone from wanting other people's money to being entitled to other people's money. They've gone from not wanting our owners to saying our owners are holding us back. Back from what? Our entitlement to other people's money. This entitlement has replaced sporting achievement. For many it seems sporting achievement is how much money the club owners are worth. Some say we stink out the PL when surely it's the state and oligarch sponsored clubs that stink it out. 

Times are changing and changing fast. If something isn't sustainable it won't last. It's only lasted this long because the PL, UEFA and FIFA are corrupt.

I don't want to hear that I'm a happy clapper, a deliarite or any of that nonsense. I've heard it too many times before. I want to hear why we're entitled to other people's money and why having it is sporting achievement.

[Indy 3,286]

9 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

At some point, not sure when, a lot of fans have gone from wanting other people's money to being entitled to other people's money. They've gone from not wanting our owners to saying our owners are holding us back. Back from what? Our entitlement to other people's money. This entitlement has replaced sporting achievement. For many it seems sporting achievement is how much money the club owners are worth. Some say we stink out the PL when surely it's the state and oligarch sponsored clubs that stink it out. 

Times are changing and changing fast. If something isn't sustainable it won't last. It's only lasted this long because the PL, UEFA and FIFA are corrupt.

I don't want to hear that I'm a happy clapper, a deliarite or any of that nonsense. I've heard it too many times before. I want to hear why we're entitled to other people's money and why having it is sporting achievement.

Don’t you think your last paragraph could have been used during Chases time? I mean that time lots were moaning big time about debt and selling Sutton? 
But totally agree with your point, but surely you also have to aim a big criticism of footballers and agents too! Cashing in on the money! Salary caps and squad numbers in each league is the only way to go forwards!

My main gripe is over paid footballers and this outdated notion of short careers, we all change career and none of us earn in a lifetime what say Cantwell or Pukki gets in a year!

Edited March 15, 2022 by Indy

[nutty nigel 7,513]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

Don’t you think your last paragraph could have been used during Chases time? I mean that time lots were moaning big time about debt and selling Sutton? 
But totally agree with your point, but surely you also have to aim a big criticism of footballers and agents too! Cashing in on the money! Salary caps and squad numbers in each league is the only way to go forwards!

And this is another problem. People have to be conveniently put in little boxes where others can throw stones. If you criticise Boris one of the comebacks is to immediately associate you with Corbyn. This Chase/Delia argument is even more ridiculous. Chase is over 25 years ago. His relevance to now is zero. I could now go back and explain again how he nearly bankrupted the club as soon as the PL was formed but people aren't interested. They just hold up his record from a league that is so far removed from now to have any point at all.

I have continually criticised the whole shetshow. The whole lot.stems from greed and entitlement. It stinks.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

19 minutes ago, Indy said:

I lost love of football as an experience since around 2004, I kept my season ticket for nearly 25 years before finally giving it up in 2016, I found that to park I had to be in the city earlier every year! Meaning my Saturday morning golf was sacrificed, then it got to the point of costing me and my wife around £80 + each home weekend and to top it all those in the lower Barclay next to the snake pit were, changing guys we’d been friends with for years either passed away, changed seats or just stopped coming! Those taking over were to coin a phrase modern day fans, not wanting to sit, meaning some old regulars who couldn’t stand all game were constantly arguing with them, they were more interested in their phones than the game and I saw more trouble between strewards and fans then I liked.

it became a chore to attend for me, I’ve not regretted giving up football for far more relaxing weekend playing golf and having a drink at the 19th!

On a different note, I have attended 20 odd Oxford games since then and I find the experience a far more connected experience, the fans are there as supporters not just plastics and the connection between the club, players and owners is far better than here at Norwich. No real egos thus you can have a chat to players and enjoy their banter, Taylor and Brannigan are real down to earth guys, bit like our old school days of Iwan and Hucks who I found very pleasant and always had time.

It’s just not for me anymore and that’s why I look at things from a far and my opinions are purely based on remote viewing and listening. But premiership certainly isn’t the best experience for real football, some of you younger supporters should try a game at Kings Lynn or that level to connect.

Where do you play golf Indy? I thought you were up north somewhere.

I was half considering going to the Oxford game v the sc*m this weekend but I use all my passes up on Norwich games!

[Indy 3,286]

7 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

And this is another problem. People have to be conveniently put in little boxes where others can throw stones. If you criticise Boris one of the comebacks is to immediately associate you with Corbyn. This Chase/Delia argument is even more ridiculous. Chase is over 25 years ago. His relevance to now is zero. I could now go back and explain again how he nearly bankrupted the club as soon as the PL was formed but people aren't interested. They just hold up his record from a league that is so far removed from now to have any point at all.

I have continually criticised the whole shetshow. The whole lot.stems from greed and entitlement. It stinks.

Not at all, I was making a point that no matter who is in charge fans expect them to put their hands in their pockets ad it’s been that way since early 70’s when salaries and players values started to find clubs needing money men! I wasn’t putting you into a specific box, wrongly worded by me! 😘 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Indy

[Indy 3,286]

4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Where do you play golf Indy? I thought you were up north somewhere.

I was half considering going to the Oxford game v the sc*m this weekend but I use all my passes up on Norwich games!

Mainly Rookery and Caldecott. But other venues too. Nah north of Suffolk 😂.

Oxford is my home city club……

[nutty nigel 7,513]

1 minute ago, Indy said:

Not at all, I was making a point that no matter who is in charge fans expect them to put their hands in their pockets ad it’s been that way since early 70’s when salaries and players values started to find clubs needing money men! I want putting you into a specific box, wrongly worded by me! 😘 

No worries Indy. Yes it's always greed. The whole thing started because the big clubs didn't want to share TV money and then it snowballed from there.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

7 minutes ago, Indy said:

Mainly Rookery and Caldecott. But other venues too. Nah north of Suffolk 😂.

Oxford is my home city club……

Ah right. I assumed from your post you were somewhere near Oxford. 

[Indy 3,286]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

No worries Indy. Yes it's always greed. The whole thing started because the big clubs didn't want to share TV money and then it snowballed from there.

Indeed, I remember Trevor Francis the first million pound transfer in 79, it had started before then with big money moves to Italy and Germany by British players but things changed there, those with money pushed on those without started to struggle. Since Sky it’s been obscene and the vast majority of money has found its way into agents & players, no club can survive in the top flight without tv revenue, take it back to merchandise and gate sales and bang goes football.

[Indy 3,286]

8 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

No worries Indy. Yes it's always greed. The whole thing started because the big clubs didn't want to share TV money and then it snowballed from there.

Like yourself Nutty, I find it far more pleasurable to see our own youth make it through the ranks then to spend big on aging journeymen, I would love to see a law bought in that 7 of the squad you name has to be from the youth set up or came through from the youth set up! Rowe another quality player along with Omobamdele, I believe your own youth players step up better than others loan as they know our club and culture! Shame we can’t keep them long term!

[Robert N. LiM 4,247]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Yes and no

Many of the detractors at the start of the season were accusing us of not investing and just taking the money, which just wasnt true

We spent £65 odd million , the 11th (?) highest in Europe.

Its the 'who' we've spent the money on which is the issue and thats on Webber (and Farke)

 

Thanks for this; completely agree. I think a lot of the criticisms were valid, but I do think we were trying to stay up this season. I think that's what makes it worse than last time, tbh!

[Robert N. LiM 4,247]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

Some say we stink out the PL when surely it's the state and oligarch sponsored clubs that stink it out.

I imagine that most of us would want a competitive team in the PL without a state/oligarch owner, while retaining the club's links to the local community. Whether that's possible in the current era is another question.

[A Load of Squit 5,136]

Can't believe no-ones said 'Pharrell Williams'. 😀

[nutty nigel 7,513]

24 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

I imagine that most of us would want a competitive team in the PL without a state/oligarch owner, while retaining the club's links to the local community. Whether that's possible in the current era is another question.

Not meaning to upset you Robert but I'm always a bit dubious about posters qualifying their opinion with 'most of us'. But you're probably right. Most probably do want a half way house between our owners and state/oligarch owners.

But the trouble is once people set their heart on money, especially other people's money, they can never get enough. If you get your halfway Harry to buy the club and we finish 17th for three seasons he'll need hounding out because all you want is to be a competitive midtable PL team. This goes on until you get the state/oligarch owner because that level is the ultimate for this competitive 'sporting achievement'. It's truly not sustainable because in the end their won't be enough states and oligarchs to go round.

Edited March 15, 2022 by nutty nigel

[Robert N. LiM 4,247]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

I'm always a bit dubious about posters qualifying their opinion with 'most of us'

Yeah, fair enough. I'm very struck by the understandable amount of anger on this board at the moment, which often ends up causing divisions. I was just trying to suggest that actually, we all want more or less the same thing.

Agree 100% with the rest of your post. You only need to see the comments of Wolves/Southampton fans to the see the truth of that.

 

[Robert N. LiM 4,247]

5 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

It's truly not sustainable because in the end their won't be enough states and oligarchs to go round.

Hopefully oligarchs are about to go out of fashion;)

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

7 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

If you meet the criteria for promotion to the Premier League then you deserve to be there.

If the detractors don't like that then they can go **** themselves.

Simple, and true. We deserved to be in the Premier League as we stylishly won the Championship. Due to some issues a bit beyond our control (Skipp's emergence and return to Sputs, Buendia basically telling Webber to sell him), we were in the odd position of trying to cobble a team together whilst going up.

Do I like how this season has gone? Do I heck. 

Do I think we have to chuck everything overboard and start, tabula rasa? No. But I do think Smith will be given leeway to do things his way where finances permit. And like any relatively new manager, no matter what I think of their previous credentials, they should be given that opportunity to leave their mark on a team and build it in their preferred manner.

But I'll always prefer a manager that lets youngsters have a good run rather than sacrificing development on the altar of experience. And I'll always prefer a manager that likes his teams to entertain whilst being defensively responsible. Thought Farke had it close to nailed in the Champs, but then Skipp and Buendia going ripped the carpet up from under him.

 

[Big Vince 318]

7 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Happy days at the Cottage, they’ll do fine next season. 

People were saying that about Norwich last season, then look what happened.

People always underestimate the sheer size of the gap between the leagues.

Fulham are down already.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

5 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Simple, and true. We deserved to be in the Premier League as we stylishly won the Championship. Due to some issues a bit beyond our control (Skipp's emergence and return to Sputs, Buendia basically telling Webber to sell him), we were in the odd position of trying to cobble a team together whilst going up.

Do I like how this season has gone? Do I heck. 

Do I think we have to chuck everything overboard and start, tabula rasa? No. But I do think Smith will be given leeway to do things his way where finances permit. And like any relatively new manager, no matter what I think of their previous credentials, they should be given that opportunity to leave their mark on a team and build it in their preferred manner.

But I'll always prefer a manager that lets youngsters have a good run rather than sacrificing development on the altar of experience. And I'll always prefer a manager that likes his teams to entertain whilst being defensively responsible. Thought Farke had it close to nailed in the Champs, but then Skipp and Buendia going ripped the carpet up from under him.

 

Yes. Although mistakes were plainly made I believe there were some circumstances that made decisions difficult. Take strikers. I imagine in the summer Webber and Farke discussed whether Pukki had another Premier League season in him. Slight signs of slowing down?

But who could we attract who would be good enough - and affordable for us - as a replacement but would have to put up with the potential prospect of being on the bench if Pukki still had what it took? Not easy to find one such with our financial restraints.

So the gamble is taken that Pukki has still got it, but as a kind of insurance in come Rashica and Sargent,  with spin out of Carrow Road that this will be the break-out season for Idah. Plus some goals from Cantwell....

Rashica has taken half a season to adapt to English football, and as striker (as opposed to a willing workhorse) Sargent looks to have justified Bethal's 'Noooooo!!!' comment on hearing us linked with him, while Idah appears not to be close to EPL quality. And Cantwell is elsewhere,. And Pukki, though doing OK, is apparently showing signs of a slight decline. The result? A terrible lack of goals.