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Robert N. LiM

Is anyone happy?

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Interesting piece about the fury among fans of clubs who seem to have it all: PSG, Bayern, Chelsea.

"Perhaps the answer lies in a common realisation, sharpened by the Super League protests and subsequent events: that wins and new signings are no real substitute for a genuine stake."

I don't think the problems at NCFC should be glossed over or explained away. But I am glad that my football club still feels like mine. Whatever happens with ownership in the future, I hope that feeling remains.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/mar/15/pursuit-of-happiness-the-problem-with-supporting-one-of-footballs-super-clubs?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

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It's interesting. There'll be some fans who genuinely don't care or relate to the feeling of it being 'our club', it's all about money and Premier League survival. That's fine, there's always going to be different types of fans.

Let's not rule out the possibility of keeping that feeling with different owners - it's definitely possible. Is it likely? Takeovers in the past 10-15 years suggest no, though.

Obviously i've not enjoyed this season but it's also not the be all and end all. I'm not obsessed with the Premier League, it just so happens to be the top league in our country and I like to see us competing at the highest level we can. It's just a shame it has to be in such a morally corrupt division. 

I'm not sure they'd admit it today but plenty of those who want Delia Out would have taken Abramovic at any point in the last few years. They would probably still take it today, if they're honest. I wouldn't.

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What has made me unhappy the most about this season is that we proved all the detractors absolute correct. We do not belong in the Premiership, we have proved that to everyone one more time. Shame on the whole Club .

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15 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Interesting piece about the fury among fans of clubs who seem to have it all: PSG, Bayern, Chelsea.

"Perhaps the answer lies in a common realisation, sharpened by the Super League protests and subsequent events: that wins and new signings are no real substitute for a genuine stake."

I don't think the problems at NCFC should be glossed over or explained away. But I am glad that my football club still feels like mine. Whatever happens with ownership in the future, I hope that feeling remains.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/mar/15/pursuit-of-happiness-the-problem-with-supporting-one-of-footballs-super-clubs?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

It’s strange because I was thinking this earlier reading another thread, no fans are really happy because everyone has a “place” and there is no real competition anywhere. 

From what I can see fans at mid-table EPL teams aren’t happy either because every year is still a battle to either a) not get relegated or mainly, just to finish a place or two higher than last year - in the knowledge that there is a ceiling as to how high they are likely to go.

I live in Scotland and am also a fan of a club up here. We have seen for years the damage the lack of competition can do, the financial dominance just leads to gloryhunting fans, that leads to increased financial dominance because they buy into big teams and not local side.

The result is that outside Rangers and Celtic, utterly nobody up here gives a toss who wins the league and virtually all interest in it is gone. The best thing to happen in recent years was St Johnstone’s cup double. 

When you leave nothing real to play for, what is the point? I felt that some of the better times as a Hearts fan was when we were in the championship and actually had something to win. Mid table mediocrity is actually very dull.

I guess winning without risk of really losing can also be that way but I wouldn’t know, all my teams are basically rubbish 🤣

Edited by Jambomo
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1 minute ago, Jambomo said:

From what I can see fans at mid-table EPL teams aren’t happy either because every year is still a battle to either a) not get relegated or mainly, just to finish a place or two higher than last year - in the knowledge that there is a ceiling as to how high they are likely to go.

Yup, I've seen comments from Wolves and Southampton fans complaining that they don't have enough money to compete. 

Whoever it was – @PurpleCanary? –who said the motto of the PL is "too much and never enough", was bang on.

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9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Let's not rule out the possibility of keeping that feeling with different owners - it's definitely possible. Is it likely? Takeovers in the past 10-15 years suggest no, though.

From the outside it seems to have happened at Brighton and Palace. But it is rare, though.

 

10 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I'm not sure they'd admit it today but plenty of those who want Delia Out would have taken Abramovic at any point in the last few years. They would probably still take it today, if they're honest. I wouldn't

Totally agree. Only fair to say that there are shades of ownership; it's not 'super cook' or 'Russian crook' and nothing in between. 

But I think it's definitely worth asking what you actually want from your football club. I would love us to be competitive at this level. But there are other things that are important to me to: a connection between club and fans, a sense that the club is rooted in its community, that it's not linked with beheading people. That sort of thing.

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I predicted comfortable 20th, we’re finishing comfortable 20th so clearly not. Somethings up when there is no hope even within the fan base. I can only speak for myself I know but I get the feeling this was the common consensus.

To an extent, we did what we can with the squad but we’re always back of the queue shopping for scraps at this level and it’s shown.

I just don’t see the point in taking it seriously any more. Perhaps if we get some external backing, football reforms, one of these scrappy attempts at survival work or more likely pigs fly I might be able to take it seriously again.

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NCFC has always punched above its weight, has been for years, long before the current crew arrived, it's in our DNA. 

I believe we should always be striving to win things and play at the highest level. I certainly won't be happy with mid table Championship where every game is pointless. Sadly there's a growing apathy on here for an easy life, one which doesn't show the inadequacies of our owners. NCFC won't survive that way.

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It's not just us is it?

Two other teams will also get relegated and two or three other teams will manage to stay up (more by being not quite as 5hit as the other three) despite having a budget of millions more than us 

I really don't know what the answer is going forward. Perhaps the Super League is the way forward for a bit of levelling up.

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1 minute ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

It's not just us is it?

Two other teams will also get relegated and two or three other teams will manage to stay up (more by being not quite as 5hit as the other three) despite having a budget of millions more than us 

I really don't know what the answer is going forward. Perhaps the Super League is the way forward for a bit of levelling up.

It’s just us who are woefully short and completely uncompetitive though and have been the last 3 prem seasons we’ve had.

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FromTheDarkness said:12-03-2022 10:43 PM

"We are not Fulham, Bournemouth even Shef Utd... we are tight as fck... we will not pay huge wages outside the prem..
say bye bye to: McNeail, Taylor, Cornet, Tarks, Pope.
We are then left with a squad of 35 year olds after...
where are the new players coming from, we are lucky to get half of money received?

I can see us going out of the championship... complete internal combustion!"

 

Taken from the Burnley message board. Nobody is happy getting relegated, but not everyone sees it as the beginning of inevitable demise. We have our equivalents.

Edited by Badger
Made my bit blue because I am arrogant, vain and attention-seeking.
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1 minute ago, Tetteys Jig said:

It’s just us who are woefully short and completely uncompetitive though and have been the last 3 prem seasons we’ve had.

I don’t know, have you been watching Everton lately?

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7 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

I don’t know, have you been watching Everton lately?

I have. They’re doing terrible for a multitude of reasons. Not in the bottom 3 though are they? Can’t compare them to our situation.

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3 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I have. They’re doing terrible for a multitude of reasons. Not in the bottom 3 though are they? Can’t compare them to our situation.

They are only out of it on goal difference. Apparently their form is actually worse than ours.

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3 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I have. They’re doing terrible for a multitude of reasons. Not in the bottom 3 though are they? Can’t compare them to our situation.

Not sure their fans would agree. In fact, looking online, I know they wouldn't agree. Hundreds upon hundreds of millions of investment in that squad and they have 5 more points than us to show for it.

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If you meet the criteria for promotion to the Premier League then you deserve to be there.

If the detractors don't like that then they can go **** themselves.

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40 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

It’s strange because I was thinking this earlier reading another thread, no fans are really happy because everyone has a “place” and there is no real competition anywhere. 

From what I can see fans at mid-table EPL teams aren’t happy either because every year is still a battle to either a) not get relegated or mainly, just to finish a place or two higher than last year - in the knowledge that there is a ceiling as to how high they are likely to go.

I live in Scotland and am also a fan of a club up here. We have seen for years the damage the lack of competition can do, the financial dominance just leads to gloryhunting fans, that leads to increased financial dominance because they buy into big teams and not local side.

The result is that outside Rangers and Celtic, utterly nobody up here gives a toss who wins the league and virtually all interest in it is gone. The best thing to happen in recent years was St Johnstone’s cup double. 

When you leave nothing real to play for, what is the point? I felt that some of the better times as a Hearts fan was when we were in the championship and actually had something to win. Mid table mediocrity is actually very dull.

I guess winning without risk of really losing can also be that way but I wouldn’t know, all my teams are basically rubbish 🤣

This, by a PHM ! football in Scotland has suffered for years at the hands of the ugly sisters, we are now seeing it in England and the threat of implosion in football is real, Leicester winning the league was akin to St Johnstone but alas will be a very a rare occurrence.

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20 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I certainly won't be happy with mid table Championship where every game is pointless.

Do you think anyone is? Right now I think I'd take two or three years in the Championship if it meant us building a squad that could compete in the Prem, but that's not the same thing. Certainly those who can remember the Grant/Roeder/Gunn days know that there are worse things than being bottom of the PL.

 

22 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Sadly there's a growing apathy on here for an easy life, one which doesn't show the inadequacies of our owners

I would say with respect that what you see as apathy is in some cases just a realisation that the problems are with the game as a whole not (just) our owners. As the original article I linked to shows, and some of the replies, very few football fans are happy at the moment, whether their club is owned by a billionaire or not.

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51 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Yup, I've seen comments from Wolves and Southampton fans complaining that they don't have enough money to compete. 

Whoever it was – @PurpleCanary? –who said the motto of the PL is "too much and never enough", was bang on.

I stole it from the title of Mary Trump's psychological dissection of crazy uncle Donald but it does seem ever more appropriate to football.

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There is a massive disconnect between the reaction against the European super league and the way the smaller clubs are treated in the premiership.  
I am sure we are not far from an 18 team premier league and b teams Playing in the football league.

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From the Watford message board - worst season ever?

The results are terrible, the players are terrible, the owners are terrible. I have absolutely no connection with the club at the moment. Apart from JP there's not a single player I'd be bothered about losing in the summer.

I'm absolutely buzzing ... hearing boos and malcontentment spreading throughout the normally placid Watford faithful. I love seeing the hope and joy drain out of the crowd and the players shrug their shoulders and get on with being pathetic as they capitulate again. Love football me!

I'm outrageously bored with Watford for the first time in my life. I don't care about winning, I don't care what the players have to say and I don't care whatever head coach we have has to say.It extends to football in general though. I very rarely sit down and watch a whole 90 minutes on the TV. Sky and BT have made it so nauseating that I physically cannot sit there and listen to them wetting their pants over some guys being paid 300k a week. Sometimes I'll catch a Championship or League One game that is alright but I honestly couldn't tell you the last game of football I saw that excited me.

It's the owners there too:

This time it is just depressing as the whole shyt show is so unnecessary. If the prix in charge had just splashed a tiny bit of cash and not rehired QSF we'd be in mid table mediocrity now.

Yes. No fluidity on the pitch whatsoever which makes most performances turgid and flat. That's what happens when you sign a bunch of journeymen players on the cheap and try to make a team out of them. 

This time round it's been pretty bleak and disenchanting from almost the word 'go', with no sustained period at all of anything to enjoy on or off the pitch

My favourite 😄

I don't know.....there are quite a few on this forum who are revelling in the misery of it all. It's probably the best ever season for them.

And the response - Try telling your wife to 'calm down dear' when she's angry.

 

Either we conclude that it's just that fans don't like getting relegated or is there something more fundamentally wrong with English football - as I think the OP was suggesting.

 

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I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not just England either. The same thing happens in all of the main leagues. The same teams win, the same teams are mid table occasionally one changes it up and gets themselves relegated (looking at you Shalke) but even that’s few and far between. 

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3 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

I am sure we are not far from an 18 team premier league and b teams Playing in the football league.

I have seen 16 teams suggested to allow more tie for European Super League games. I would love it if the non Super League teams stood up and made those joining the Super league chose - it's the Super league OR Pl - you can't be in both. But I guess that too many investor owners would be worried about losing everything.*

* Bit of a tangent but renewed talk of a Superleague and a smaller EPL must make the investment case even weaker for "investor owners."

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49 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

They are only out of it on goal difference. Apparently their form is actually worse than ours.

Still not “uncompetitive and isolated” like us. Yes they’re also in a **** situation and rightfully annoyed. Not sure how that helps justify our situation. It’s literally a pointless endeavour getting behind our side in the prem under the current model.

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I think the hardest pill to swallow is the fact we have stormed the Championship only to see the likes of Shef Utd and Brentford become the media darlings and us to become the whipping boys.
There has to be something psychlogical in there, in that the players have to become demoralised by this but the drive to prove the detractors wrong is lacking.
We just are not a sexy club! People seem to forget we are a Prem league OG and just see us as a small club punching. Can you imagine the media chest slapping and excitement if big club Ipswich "returned" to where it belongs in the Prem.

The whole system stinks for me, its the first time ive really looked at football and been disengaged to a level where i want to just start following Lowestoft Town or something.
 

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2 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

From the outside it seems to have happened at Brighton and Palace. But it is rare, though.

 

Totally agree. Only fair to say that there are shades of ownership; it's not 'super cook' or 'Russian crook' and nothing in between. 

But I think it's definitely worth asking what you actually want from your football club. I would love us to be competitive at this level. But there are other things that are important to me to: a connection between club and fans, a sense that the club is rooted in its community, that it's not linked with beheading people. That sort of thing.

I don't think our club is quite as rooted in its commutiny any more as is sometimes made out. I'm not talking about the CSF stuff which is fantastic (although technically not the club as its a separate entity) or about it being rooted in the community in sense we are a one club city where with a passionate support. That won't change too much I hope. But I do feel that the link between the fans and the club seems to be being eroded a bit in the last few years. They may individually be minor points and absence due to covid may have played a part as well but high ticket prices, the feeling we are being screwed for every penny at times, the number of longish term staff who seem to be leaving, the fact you can't easily speak to the ticket office now (or indeed anyone - at least Kensell, despite his mistakes chasing the ££ at times, got it and used to make himself accessible) when you need to, the lack of communication from the club, the way the club controls media access and heck even the pinkun (who retain the bulk of that access) taking some of its content behind a paywall. 

I know that these things seem worse when you are losing. I know we are still better than many clubs. But I feel like there is a distance building between the club and the fanbase that has not been there for quite some time and thats not really a good thing for the club. 

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4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

But I feel like there is a distance building between the club and the fanbase that has not been there for quite some time and thats not really a good thing for the club. 

I'm a bit distanced from the club anyway at the moment for personal reasons, but I suspect your post is entirely fair. And it's certainly the case that if you want to run the self-funding, community club model, you need to make damn sure you walk the walk on this stuff as well as talking the talk. Thanks for the reply.

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1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

I'm a bit distanced from the club anyway at the moment for personal reasons, but I suspect your post is entirely fair. And it's certainly the case that if you want to run the self-funding, community club model, you need to make damn sure you walk the walk on this stuff as well as talking the talk. Thanks for the reply.

Yes i think we claim to be a community club when it suits us (normally to fjustify our failure, preach the "careful what you wish for" mantra or when they need money) but are caught between two stools at the moment. If you are going to be a true community club then i think you need at least some people in senior leadership positions who are good at engaging with that community. Or you need to say, do you know what, we are going to take a hit on this for the benefit of our fans and truly operate as a community club. 

Truth is clubs like Leicester or Wolves are just as firmly embedded in their comunity if not more so than us, depsite their foreign owners. 

 

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