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Samwam27

Would you buy Kabak or Normann?

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1 hour ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

Ah the Becchio effect. Why do we always seem to have a world-class player on the bench that none of our managers can see the value of?

Why do you and not our manager think that Kabak is a defensive midfielder?

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7 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

Ah the Becchio effect. Why do we always seem to have a world-class player on the bench that none of our managers can see the value of?

It’s not the Becchio effect. It’s based on watching him play quite a lot of games for us albeit only a couple in his preferred position. 
 

you will note I also said give him a run to show he can do it. 

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On 15/03/2022 at 17:10, chicken said:

Lol! Sorry but then we may as well just march all of the squad out. You want to get rid of our best CB because those around him are worse than he is?! 😅

A lot of the squad, yes. I think we should be ambitious next season and try and establish a centre back pairing that will be ready for a genuine stab at staying in the Premier League. There is no centre back pairing that includes Hanley capable of doing that, in case someone like van Dijk is prepared to take a wage drop and hand hold him to survival.

I love Hanley, he's been one of the few players to actually look like he cares this season. But he's not good enough to be a regular starter in a team with Premier League survival aspirations. We could stick with him next year and it won't damage our promotion prospects, but then we run the risk of thinking, "He's had a great season in the Championship and got us up, let's give him another go". It's the same reason some people suggested, albeit with tongue in cheek, that we should get Farke back for next season and ditch him after promotion is secured. We could do that with Hanley, but I'd rather try and replace him with a defender capable of cutting it in an established Premier League side in the summer to play alongside Omo.

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I highly doubt either will want to play Championship football next season, or that we could afford them if we go down over other priority targets (signing another CF, signing an actual DM). Not fully convinced by Kabak but think he could a job, I like Normann but he's been out of form since getting injured

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Kabak - no. Too accident prone and I would pick Hanley & Omo ahead of him next season.

Normann - possibly but would “audition’ him over the remainder of this season

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17 hours ago, 7HAR1980 said:

Why do you and not our manager think that Kabak is a defensive midfielder?

Gonna avoid the Godfrey debate all over again, but why not for Kabak. Joelinton for Newcastle has been transformed playing in midfield instead of up front, so why couldn't Kabak show something in midfield. He likes bringing the ball out of defence!

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1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Well it looks as though Schalke are keen to get shot of Kabak but admit it's unlikely to be Norwich. It's fair to say Normann and Kabak haven't turned out as we would like

http://sportwitness.co.uk/player-experienced-fiasco-norwich-transfer-hopes-fading/

Has to be said that piece is utterly woeful! 🤪😅

Hasn't "been in the squad for ages" - then they contradict themselves by saying he has been in the starting 11. They call the last game a fiasco - but not of his making, and we were losing at 90mins... Also seem to ignore he was out with covid/injury too. Meh, seems utterly devoid of anything substantial.

If Schalke are that keen on offloading him and feel he hasn't done well, perhaps they are realising he isn't worth the rumoured £10m.

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Normann was our best player before he got injured, but since then he's been hopeless. He said in a recent interview that he would love to stay, but I think he's too injury prone. Kabak is still young and could come good but I think his wages would be too high. Like others have said, I think we're better off giving the likes of Omobamidele and Sorensen game time instead.

I also think the transfer fees for Normann and Kabak would be a bit too high for us in the 2nd tier, and that it would seriously affect our finances (prevent us from being able to make any decent signings, only the likes of teenagers to develop)

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12 hours ago, Samwam27 said:

Gonna avoid the Godfrey debate all over again, but why not for Kabak. Joelinton for Newcastle has been transformed playing in midfield instead of up front, so why couldn't Kabak show something in midfield. He likes bringing the ball out of defence!

I was replying to The Great Mass Debater who was being rather hypocritical in his last posts.

Kabak was signed as a central defender. We already have a holding midfielder who is our player.

I think it's counter productive to develop someone else's player in a different position than what he was signed for. Especially when we have our own players who need to develop there.

Also, maybe his parent club wants him to develop as a central defender only.

As for my own opinion on moving his position and if he'd cope, maybe? He does seem to have attributes that could help him progress as a holding midfielder but I'm not sure using the point that he likes to bring the ball out is enough evidence to try him there.

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On 17/03/2022 at 00:11, 7HAR1980 said:

Why do you and not our manager think that Kabak is a defensive midfielder?

I thought Elliott Bennett should be playing right back as well, which he generally is these days.

Kabak's main attributes are his size but also mobility. However, like David Luiz his concentration and decision making seems poor and this means he is a liability at centre-back. If we played him as a DM, a problem position for us for a long time, we may get the benefit of his strengths and negate some of his weaknesses. Those surging runs he is so fond of will not leave us in the **** if he loses possession.

Wes was an undoubtedly talented player, but when he lost the ball whilst playing as a winger he would often leave us in the doo-doo. lambert recognised that and changede his position where he became far more influential on the games and less of a liability.

Benno I think just lacked the attacking ability for the upper echelons, but his other attributes meant he could still offer a lot at right-back.

 

(Incidentally I once saw Michael Duberry - not a player I ever really rated at Centre-Back - play as an emergency striker (for Leeds against Chelsea I think). He absolutely frightened the life out of them. I often wonder if some players are in the wrong position)

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On 17/03/2022 at 06:46, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

Ah the Becchio effect. Why do we always seem to have a world-class player on the bench that none of our managers can see the value of?

This reply to Jim Smith is the rather hypocritical one.

Basically you shut down his opinion and call it "the Becchio effect" when in essence your idea of playing Kabak as a holding midfielder could also be shut down using the same analogy.

To my knowledge no other manager has played Kabak in the holding midfield position. 

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On 17/03/2022 at 10:12, canarydan23 said:

A lot of the squad, yes. I think we should be ambitious next season and try and establish a centre back pairing that will be ready for a genuine stab at staying in the Premier League. There is no centre back pairing that includes Hanley capable of doing that, in case someone like van Dijk is prepared to take a wage drop and hand hold him to survival.

I love Hanley, he's been one of the few players to actually look like he cares this season. But he's not good enough to be a regular starter in a team with Premier League survival aspirations. We could stick with him next year and it won't damage our promotion prospects, but then we run the risk of thinking, "He's had a great season in the Championship and got us up, let's give him another go". It's the same reason some people suggested, albeit with tongue in cheek, that we should get Farke back for next season and ditch him after promotion is secured. We could do that with Hanley, but I'd rather try and replace him with a defender capable of cutting it in an established Premier League side in the summer to play alongside Omo.

Hanley is possibly going to win POTS and your focus is on getting rid of him? I know he has his limitations but he is a damn sight better than the other central defenders we have (I agree that Omo may end up being a much better player, but he still has a lot to prove).

IMO our priority should be upgrading a useless midfield who can neither protect the defence nor create any opportunities for the attack.

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42 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

Hanley is possibly going to win POTS and your focus is on getting rid of him? I know he has his limitations but he is a damn sight better than the other central defenders we have (I agree that Omo may end up being a much better player, but he still has a lot to prove).

IMO our priority should be upgrading a useless midfield who can neither protect the defence nor create any opportunities for the attack.

If we're only prioritising one position, we may as well pack up and go home. Wanting to upgrade our central defence with half an eye on a Premier League campaign doesn't mean I think our midfield doesn't also need a massive overhaul.

Maybe he'll create a partnership with Omo that will develop to one that might work in the Premier League, but we average two goals a game conceded at the top flight with Hanley in the defence. Yes, there is more to it, but as I said, if we're serious about getting to the Prem and staying there, we need to be thinking about building a team sans Hanley.

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13 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

If we're only prioritising one position, we may as well pack up and go home. Wanting to upgrade our central defence with half an eye on a Premier League campaign doesn't mean I think our midfield doesn't also need a massive overhaul.

Maybe he'll create a partnership with Omo that will develop to one that might work in the Premier League, but we average two goals a game conceded at the top flight with Hanley in the defence. Yes, there is more to it, but as I said, if we're serious about getting to the Prem and staying there, we need to be thinking about building a team sans Hanley.

 

I agree it's not either/or, but we have to prioritise where the weaknesses are. I think Hanley is certainly good enough for another season in the Championship, whereas if we don't put some creativity into our midfield, we're going nowhere. The same is true if we don't put some steel into our midfield. Even Championship teams will cut through it like butter if the midfield performs like it has this year.

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Posted (edited)

It is hard to build a team for promotion from the champs with a view to the premier league.

Better to do as we have before build a team to win the champs and worry about the rest later.

I certainly would not sell any player in our team who is a proven champs performer unless worth it/they demand to leave.

GK= Champs proven

The defence = Champs proven

Midfield = Weaker than last champs season*

Attack = Weaker than last champs season**

* Skipp not replaced and a lack of creativity it maybe that with a Skipp replacement other players improve against the lower quality opposition.

**  Rashica and Sargent not proven in the Champs logically both should do better against poorer slower opposition.  Pukki older and Emi was a fantastic player whom was too good for the champs last season.


I do not see the consistency/durability of Kabak or Norman and the money should be used to get as decent a CDM as possible if they do not have long term faith in Sorensen.

It will be very interesting to see who stays or not I think a few decent additions and the stark quality difference between the champs and Prem will be revealed.....ergo we should be competitive

 


 

Edited by Fromage Frais

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My other concern, although it may not play out, is whether we get the same commitment from loanees the closer we get to the end of the season.

I sometimes wonder if their mentality changes if they know they're but a handful of games away from leaving and returning to said clubs, and they think it doesn't matter so much. Alternatively it's an opportunity to leave on a high and put yourself in shop window.

We need a performance out of Normann, but his situation back at Rostov must be affecting him in some ways. Be interesting how, and whether, we show any interest in Normann or Kabak should we go down, and whether the option/obligation is 100% dependant on staying up.  

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On 16/03/2022 at 22:46, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

Ah the Becchio effect. Why do we always seem to have a world-class player on the bench that none of our managers can see the value of?

I don't think anyone's said Sörensen is world-class. He does bring attributes to a position that appear to be very much what we need though.

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