What have they done to this club?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

You are repeating yourself and not engaging with the question. How do you stop a player you don't own leaving? How do you replace him when he is clearly above this clubs level? How do you replace the most gifted player we've probably had with one of similar calibre? You're not dealing with reality. 

Maybe if you told him and the rest of the squad that he was a very talented player and he was entitled to be the highest paid player at the club on say £80K a week.

[Capt. Pants 4,202]

We could have given Emi a very respectable new contract with the money later wasted on Tzolis.

[hogesar 9,618]

14 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Maybe if you told him and the rest of the squad that he was a very talented player and he was entitled to be the highest paid player at the club on say £80K a week.

Possibly. Who knows what we did or didn't do to try and keep him. I'd say the lure of playing for a bigger club in Villa who were on an upward trend themselves was probably too much for him to turn down regardless of if we could have got close (we'd never be able to match Villa) on wages.

[Highland Canary 76]

Of course, it’s our inability to offer premier league wages which has doomed us to failure once again. Only new investment can address such a structural weakness.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

The problem we have I think is that winning the championship requires very different things from staying in the Premier League. If we're going to shift between the two bienially then we have to change the approach/personnel drastically each time.

To move forward we need to develop a style of football that can be effective in grinding out points against superior teams (premier), but also has enough to win the points against the poorer teams (championship) without having to constantly re-invent ourselves.

Farkeball didnt work in the Premier League. Not suited to having the poorest players in the division. But we need a system we can keep consistent that has the potential to do both. That's how we move forward. A big ask though

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Maybe if you told him and the rest of the squad that he was a very talented player and he was entitled to be the highest paid player at the club on say £80K a week.

He'll still be on more at Villa and without the relegation clause. More bonuses too. He said he'll never play for the club again, that is different to demanding we shatter our wage structure for him.

[daly 500]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Maybe if you told him and the rest of the squad that he was a very talented player and he was entitled to be the highest paid player at the club on say £80K a week.

£80000 a week you’ve got to be joking 

[Jimmy Raggatip 59]

5 hours ago, Badger said:

It can be done, the question is are we as fans prepared to put up with this type of football? AS the OP suggests perhaps we are moving that way, but to make it work we are going to need more 6 foot 3 inch players + set piece specialists. Is this the journey we want to take to be competitive in the Premier League?

Personally, I don't like the idea but it's dispiriting to lose every week. Is it worth changing playing style completely?

it is dispiriting but I'd rather us at least try and play football rather than defending our own box for 90 mins and every game resemble the Alamo.

[Badger 2,405]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy Raggatip said:

it is dispiriting but I'd rather us at least try and play football rather than defending our own box for 90 mins and every game resemble the Alamo.

I'm the same, I think, but we may be in a minority. Very few clubs our size stayed up by playing good football without a mega donor.

[Badger 2,405]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Maybe if you told him and the rest of the squad that he was a very talented player and he was entitled to be the highest paid player at the club on say £80K a week.

I'm sure that we could have afforded to do this if we thought that it was a viable possibility and a good option for the club (it would have only cost an extra £2 million - much less than Kabak is costing someone said). I don't think it was either (a possibility or a good option) - he wanted to + paying someone much more than other players could have a series of undesirable affects. 

[City 2nd 191]

15 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

Well getting promoted got us shed loads of points. 
 

Such a silly point. Plenty of clubs haven’t even had a chance at the Premiership. Also laying down solid foundations for football excellence is important and gives us better chances of further promotions in the future. You don’t think we should heavily invest in an environment where we regularly have homegrown players join the first team?

But NCFC have, and have blown it, twice! Laying down solid foundation for football excellence is important. Why have a grounds you cannot fill as you are a mere championship side, and a premiership training facility, for what when you are a mere championship side going nowhere! No I don’t think heavy investment in that environment is healthy at all, I would  much rather see investment where it’s needed, as a premiership club in the EPL. 

[City 2nd 191]

5 hours ago, Badger said:

Sorry this is wrong. Burnley have been in the Premier League since 2016. During this time there were no injections of money from the owners, not was money borrowed. In fact at the end of the 19-20 (the latest accounts available) they had accrued £80 million pounds. (see below)

It can be done, the question is are we as fans prepared to put up with this type of football? AS the OP suggests perhaps we are moving that way, but to make it work we are going to need more 6 foot 3 inch players + set piece specialists. Is this the journey we want to take to be competitive in the Premier League?

Personally, I don't like the idea but it's dispiriting to lose every week. Is it worth changing playing style completely?

What a great club to compare NCFC to, in the bottom 3 of the EPL, and  likely to be relegated too. However, at least they have been in the EPL since 2016, so have shown some ambition! More than one can say for NCFC!

[canarybubbles 1,915]

12 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

What a great club to compare NCFC to, in the bottom 3 of the EPL, and  likely to be relegated too. However, at least they have been in the EPL since 2016, so have shown some ambition! More than one can say for NCFC!

But if you had to choose between our last five seasons - two glorious promotions and two abject relegations - or Burnley's last five seasons - ugly, industrial football and surviving fairly comfortably in the Prem - which would you choose? I know I would choose the former. Fair enough, other people would choose the latter, I get that.

[Badger 2,405]

12 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

What a great club to compare NCFC to, in the bottom 3 of the EPL, and  likely to be relegated too. However, at least they have been in the EPL since 2016, so have shown some ambition! More than one can say for NCFC!

1. They showed less ambition than us as they finished each year in surplus but still stayed up! You said it cant be done - it can and has!

2. The reason that they are likely to go down this year is that did what you and a lot of others want City to do - i.e. they sold out to rich American investors. Hasn't gone well for them has it? So what's the moral of the story - don't sell to rich investors would be my take? What's yours?

[Badger 2,405]

3 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

But if you had to choose between our last five seasons - two glorious promotions and two abject relegations - or Burnley's last five seasons - ugly, industrial football and surviving fairly comfortably in the Prem - which would you choose? I know I would choose the former. Fair enough, other people would choose the latter, I get that.

There is also the point that Burnley have done exactly what a lot of people on here wants us to do - they sold out to investors! They stayed up on a shoestring but as soon as they sold out to investors, who need to make a profit + pay interest on loans they used to buy the club, they struggle.

People will ignore it though because they don't like facts confronting their prejudice. 😟

[hogesar 9,618]

20 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

What a great club to compare NCFC to, in the bottom 3 of the EPL, and  likely to be relegated too. However, at least they have been in the EPL since 2016, so have shown some ambition! More than one can say for NCFC!

In all seriousness, how do you manage to miss the point quite to this degree?

[Badger 2,405]

Just now, hogesar said:

In all seriousness, how do you manage to miss the point quite to this degree?

It's quite deliberate. He said that you can't stay up as a self-funded club and I provided evidence that you can. he then has to shift the goal posts.

As I have said above, it is when the owners sold out to US investors that their trouble started. They are another club paying high interest rates on loans since the change of ownership, so may find it likely to go straight back up like they did last time (Although Dyche has a bit of Pulis/ Warnock etc about him).

[hertfordyellow 460]

22 hours ago, Badger said:

Sorry this is wrong. Burnley have been in the Premier League since 2016. During this time there were no injections of money from the owners, not was money borrowed. In fact at the end of the 19-20 (the latest accounts available) they had accrued £80 million pounds. (see below)

It can be done, the question is are we as fans prepared to put up with this type of football? AS the OP suggests perhaps we are moving that way, but to make it work we are going to need more 6 foot 3 inch players + set piece specialists. Is this the journey we want to take to be competitive in the Premier League?

Personally, I don't like the idea but it's dispiriting to lose every week. Is it worth changing playing style completely?

Two things to say about Burnley.

The new owners borrowed money against the club when they bought it. Payments are easy when in the premiership, I think it won’t be if they are in championship and don’t go straight back up. There could be financial trouble ahead. 

The success is purely built around Dyche. Are the facilities top class? Not to my knowledge, top academy? When he goes, what is left behind? If they go down, he will be linked with premiership jobs when they occur.

They are a club that has done well. Worth pointing out they have spent money on transfers that are out of our grasp at the moment. 17 million, 16 million on individual players. Certainly haven’t splashed the cash but because of staying up they have accumulated purchasing power. The first season is the hardest.