What have they done to this club?

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 hour ago, Inch High aka Inchy.. said:

And then he went and grabbed arguably one of the leagues worst manager and assistant combo's.

Arguably doing a lot of heavy lifting.

[Mullet 293]

7 hours ago, Petriix said:

I'm absolutely in no doubt that Farke worked miracles with the quality of player he had at his disposal. Since his departure the team has lost all identity, sense of purpose, shape, togetherness.

The rot had clearly started with the summer transfer window, but at least there was some continuity and a plan. Ok, the plan wasn't working, but you knew how we were trying to play. Now it's just a shambles.

These are our easiest fixtures, but we're being outclassed, resorting to hoofball with nothing from the midfield. It's unrecognisable from the quality passing, movement and possession we were treated to under Farke.

The club has gone backwards in both personnel and tactics. We're worse now than at any point in the previous 3 seasons. I'm struggling to imagine how we could finish in the top half of the Championship.

(Posted at half time so let's hope this ages really badly)

Let the manager choose his players not some wannabe sporting director who hasn't got a clue what's needed. As has been said before he got lucky with Pukki and Buendia. The vast majority of his signings are crap and now the whole club has become crap.

The club has no desire, the players have no desire, Delia doesn't give a sh!t about establishing in the PL. 

DS is getting criticism, I feel sorry for the poor bloke. He did well in a big club now he's with us tw^ts. 

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

21 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

Arguably doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Given that said assistant manager has won the title in this league not sure what point he's trying to make

[Mullet 293]

5 hours ago, komakino said:

Farke’s record in the EPL was diabolical. He didn’t have the personnel to play his style of football as no manager would, so something had to change.

Smith has been given no pounds as this squad is still Farke’s/Webber’s and I feel really sorry that he is trying to do something with nothing. 

Absolutely right, Farke did nothing in the PL in over a season. Didn't he create club history and lose something like 15 games in a row. 

The problems at the club run deeper than the manager. 

We are little old Norwich with a mentality to match. Most of the teams in the championship have more desire and guts than we do.

[City 2nd 191]

5 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

We’ll I disagree on two fronts. 
 

1) What have ‘they’ done to this club? Apart from navigate past a tricky financial situation, reinvent the academy, transform the infrastructure and get promoted twice (when bigger clubs are stranded in the championship)? Not a lot. Yes we’ve failed to step up again, it’s not been good enough but objectively as a club, we’ve made progress.

2) Don’t reinvent Farke please. There wasn’t an identity or continuity. It was all over the place. Farke ball was dead, 5 different formations. Players in and out of the team. Odd comments to the press.

Smith isn’t an odd appointment, especially with Shakespeare. He’s failed to pull off a miracle that’s all. A reminder that Liverpool under Klopp were  not good for a whole season. Give him a chance.

And how many points has that brought about pray tell me!

[Orly 277]

6 hours ago, hogesar said:

Maybe if fans didn't cream themselves because Dean Smith bigged us up when playing the top teams,  as opposed to bad evil Farke who said we didn't stand much of a chance...

The results are the same.

Smith deserves a chance with his own players. 

I was under the impression that Farke didn't buy the players - that the targets are all picked from the scouts / data people / and Webber?  Therefore Smith wouldn't get a season 'with his own players' anymore than the 2/3rds of a season he will have had.

Even if that isn't true, I won't be sad if we part ways with Dean at the end of the season.  Just don't feel it's a good fit, post-Farke.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Orly

[hertfordyellow 460]

2 hours ago, City 2nd said:

And how many points has that brought about pray tell me!

Well getting promoted got us shed loads of points. 
 

Such a silly point. Plenty of clubs haven’t even had a chance at the Premiership. Also laying down solid foundations for football excellence is important and gives us better chances of further promotions in the future. You don’t think we should heavily invest in an environment where we regularly have homegrown players join the first team?

[percy varco 196]

4 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

Indeed and at the nest. To think we had temporary cabins and the gym in an old conservatory.

All very lovely now at Colney. 
Think a trot up and down St James Hill in the Ron Saunders style wouldn’t go amiss this week. 
 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

I think most of us would have been able to “navigate a tricky financial situation” by selling James Maddison to be honest. Selling good players to premier league clubs isn’t difficult. But credit where’s its due for appointing Farke and building that initial promotion side on a relatively low budget. 
 

I also think Smith will do well for us longer term,

the recruitment at premier league level and in particular the failings to address the deficiencies at striker, Cb and the infamous CDM have been pretty unforgiveable though. 

[AJ 1,218]

10 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

How do you replace a player who regularly starts for Spurs and another that cost 33+ million, with our wage structure, funding and stature in the game? Such an aimless criticism.

Webber also didn’t purchase a goose that lays golden eggs. What an absolute fraud he is.

If we wanted to survive, we shouldn't have sold him, or should have held out for more money to be and to replace him with a player of a similar calibre. 

But beyond that the biggest problem is letting your two DMs leave and not replace them

Edited March 14, 2022 by AJ

[GenerationA47 747]

9 hours ago, Mullet said:

Let the manager choose his players not some wannabe sporting director who hasn't got a clue what's needed. As has been said before he got lucky with Pukki and Buendia. The vast majority of his signings are crap and now the whole club has become crap.

The club has no desire, the players have no desire, Delia doesn't give a sh!t about establishing in the PL. 

DS is getting criticism, I feel sorry for the poor bloke. He did well in a big club now he's with us tw^ts. 

 

My dear sir, speak for yourself

[Hackney Canary 97]

15 hours ago, HertsCanary93 said:

We had a Farke-style squad in the championship, from which we sold and lost our two best players in Emi and Skipp.

All the recruitment from then on seemed to want to move us to playing a different style of football, with a focus on pacey wingers (which Farke often avoided). However, we didn't sign enough quality or quantity of players to play the new style, and hence Farke just stuck with his old system - often leaving out the new players like Tzolis, Sargent and Rashica.

I think Smith was brought in with the intention of making us a tough to beat countering team, but when I watch us now, I genuinely don't know what our system is outside of the general formation... Pass it around for 5 mins, then hoof to our small striker for the rest of the game. We had some joy with a direct 442, but the club refused to sign another striker - so after Idah got injured we went back to zero system again.

 

 

This is the heart of the matter. The recruitment last summer was appalling. Not necessarily because of the quality of the players (although we can all see that wasn’t great) but because it introduced a wholesale change of system that bore no relation to the philosophy of the head coach and the system we had committed for the preceding four years. As a consequence, we effectively sacrificed the best head coach we’ve had in years, abandoned our principles and now look an absolute ****show. I’d dearly love to know what Webber’s thinking was and the extent to which he involved Farke in that thinking. Take Gilmour as just one example. Why sign a player like that when last time round in the Premiership Farke effectively froze out Leitner, who was pretty similar in stature and style? It boggles the mind. 
 

At the same time, I do think we need to give our collective heads a wobble. We’re in a pit, for sure, but I still take pride in the idea of our model, the determination not to sacrifice financial integrity in pursuit of the big league. Sure, I wish things were different, but most of all I wish the Premiership hadn’t become so corrupted by dirty money from Russia and Saudi - and elsewhere for that matter. It’s not sexy, but it’s what I believe. One way or another, we’ll build again. I just wish we could turn back the clock to last summer and have a word with Webber before he embarked on a Football Manager-style ego trip. 
 

OTBC.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

16 hours ago, HertsCanary93 said:

We had a Farke-style squad in the championship, from which we sold and lost our two best players in Emi and Skipp.

All the recruitment from then on seemed to want to move us to playing a different style of football, with a focus on pacey wingers (which Farke often avoided). However, we didn't sign enough quality or quantity of players to play the new style, and hence Farke just stuck with his old system - often leaving out the new players like Tzolis, Sargent and Rashica.

I think Smith was brought in with the intention of making us a tough to beat countering team, but when I watch us now, I genuinely don't know what our system is outside of the general formation... Pass it around for 5 mins, then hoof to our small striker for the rest of the game. We had some joy with a direct 442, but the club refused to sign another striker - so after Idah got injured we went back to zero system again.

This is absolutely spot on and written brilliantly too 👏

[ged in the onion bag 854]

28 minutes ago, Hackney Canary said:

This is the heart of the matter. The recruitment last summer was appalling. Not necessarily because of the quality of the players (although we can all see that wasn’t great) but because it introduced a wholesale change of system that bore no relation to the philosophy of the head coach and the system we had committed for the preceding four years. As a consequence, we effectively sacrificed the best head coach we’ve had in years, abandoned our principles and now look an absolute ****show. I’d dearly love to know what Webber’s thinking was and the extent to which he involved Farke in that thinking. Take Gilmour as just one example. Why sign a player like that when last time round in the Premiership Farke effectively froze out Leitner, who was pretty similar in stature and style? It boggles the mind. 
 

At the same time, I do think we need to give our collective heads a wobble. We’re in a pit, for sure, but I still take pride in the idea of our model, the determination not to sacrifice financial integrity in pursuit of the big league. Sure, I wish things were different, but most of all I wish the Premiership hadn’t become so corrupted by dirty money from Russia and Saudi - and elsewhere for that matter. It’s not sexy, but it’s what I believe. One way or another, we’ll build again. I just wish we could turn back the clock to last summer and have a word with Webber before he embarked on a Football Manager-style ego trip. 
 

OTBC.

Totally agree with you here.   

[TIL 1010 4,722]

11 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

The training facilities are transformed. 

You said reinvent the academy which i took to you meaning Colney in general so apologies as i was talking about Carrow Road.

[hertfordyellow 460]

2 hours ago, AJ said:

If we wanted to survive, we shouldn't have sold him, or should have held out for more money to be and to replace him with a player of a similar calibre. 

But beyond that the biggest problem is letting your two DMs leave and not replace them

You are repeating yourself and not engaging with the question. How do you stop a player you don't own leaving? How do you replace him when he is clearly above this clubs level? How do you replace the most gifted player we've probably had with one of similar calibre? You're not dealing with reality. 

[hertfordyellow 460]

3 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I think most of us would have been able to “navigate a tricky financial situation” by selling James Maddison to be honest. Selling good players to premier league clubs isn’t difficult. But credit where’s its due for appointing Farke and building that initial promotion side on a relatively low budget. 
 

I also think Smith will do well for us longer term,

the recruitment at premier league level and in particular the failings to address the deficiencies at striker, Cb and the infamous CDM have been pretty unforgiveable though. 

I think it was more than that, the money received was very well spent overall. Plenty of Championship clubs have sold players and not built a promotion squad.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

4 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

You are repeating yourself and not engaging with the question. How do you stop a player you don't own leaving? How do you replace him when he is clearly above this clubs level? How do you replace the most gifted player we've probably had with one of similar calibre? You're not dealing with reality. 

Erm but we did own him, or at least his regsitration. You tell him he's an important players for us. Its curcial for us to try and stay in the premier league and you expect him to knuckle down and help us do that. 

The way it is made out that we have to sell any player whose agent expresses a desire to leave baffles me. 

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

Erm but we did own him, or at least his regsitration. You tell him he's an important players for us. Its curcial for us to try and stay in the premier league and you expect him to knuckle down and help us do that. 

The way it is made out that we have to sell any player whose agent expresses a desire to leave baffles me. 

I was talking about Skipp

[daly 500]

Problem has been the engine room of the team

Goalkeeper, Right and Left backs OK

Striker no alternatives

Centre backs not good enough for Premiership 

Engine room of team after 30 games or so no idea what is his best formation

Probably under present regime Championship is the best we can hope for in the foreseeable future

Frustrating that Bournemouth with a 11000 crowd are likely going to replace us

Edited March 14, 2022 by daly

[Ulfotto 623]

This season the club is desperate to stay in the premiership that’s why Farke was sacked that’s why we have played a more direct football at times. It is the reason the team is full of loan signing etc… 
 

This regime or this cycle whatever you want to call it made a massive mistake in 19/20 when they called the season a free hit and bagged the money.  Since then the way things have panned out has meant going into the premiership this time in a position where we had to completely rebuild the midfield as well as strengthen up front and at the back and get a reserve keeper. Guess what we have been unable to do that.

They thought going up going down going up again would be better than having a go in 19/20 and not thinking about what happens next. On balance that was a bad decision.

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Ulfotto

[Badger 2,405]

18 hours ago, City 2nd said:

NCFC would become self-financing. It simply cannot and will not work at EPL level until all clubs are forced to do the same

Sorry this is wrong. Burnley have been in the Premier League since 2016. During this time there were no injections of money from the owners, not was money borrowed. In fact at the end of the 19-20 (the latest accounts available) they had accrued £80 million pounds. (see below)

It can be done, the question is are we as fans prepared to put up with this type of football? AS the OP suggests perhaps we are moving that way, but to make it work we are going to need more 6 foot 3 inch players + set piece specialists. Is this the journey we want to take to be competitive in the Premier League?

Personally, I don't like the idea but it's dispiriting to lose every week. Is it worth changing playing style completely?

[Badger 2,405]

57 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Erm but we did own him, or at least his regsitration. You tell him he's an important players for us. Its curcial for us to try and stay in the premier league and you expect him to knuckle down and help us do that. 

Like we did with Cantwell - who we thought would be easier to win around?

[AJ 1,218]

1 hour ago, hertfordyellow said:

You are repeating yourself and not engaging with the question. How do you stop a player you don't own leaving? How do you replace him when he is clearly above this clubs level? How do you replace the most gifted player we've probably had with one of similar calibre? You're not dealing with reality. 

I gave two outcomes, and one of those was if we did have to let him go we should have held out for the funds required to replace him. We let him go for a reasonable sum, but the question I asked at the time was whether that sum was enough to replace the offset of the inevitable relegation following his departure.

As for Skipp, at least signing a CDM would have been better than just doing nothing. When you consider we also saw Tettey go and effectively didn't replace him either, and we have Sorensen who statistically has bought good results not really getting played whilst we play Billy "king of the world" Gilmour and Kenny "Undroppable" McLean instead. I'm not convinced Sorensen is the answer, but he's better than just not playing a CDM.

[Highland Canary 76]

An ownership model with only limited efficacy before the massive influx of broadcasting money and wealthy owners over the last decade with no efficacy today. A business model doomed to fail in the PL and one which will increasingly fail in the championship given the increase in wealth of championship owners. The outcome is likely to be relegation through the tiers and/or potential administration as any player assets with value are sold. Further, with this cycle it is much less obvious as to which players - if any - have significant value to realise on relegation. Without new investment the likelihood of administration undoubtedly will increase.

[kenfoggo 247]

All well and good to develop the training facilities. Well done, jolly good! But it counts for nothing if the team is unsupportable! Something of the spirit of the Farke era needs to be injected somehow. Perhaps it is only now that we can see , with 20/20 hindsight , just what an asset Farke was, he obviously got the squad to produce more than the sum of their abilities. Certainly more than Smith and his cohort of no hopers.

[hogesar 9,618]

53 minutes ago, Highland Canary said:

An ownership model with only limited efficacy before the massive influx of broadcasting money and wealthy owners over the last decade with no efficacy today. A business model doomed to fail in the PL and one which will increasingly fail in the championship given the increase in wealth of championship owners. The outcome is likely to be relegation through the tiers and/or potential administration as any player assets with value are sold. Further, with this cycle it is much less obvious as to which players - if any - have significant value to realise on relegation. Without new investment the likelihood of administration undoubtedly will increase.

It would be easier to take you seriously if you hadn't basically copied and pasted what you said last time we got relegated. Y'know, when we then went and won the title. 🙂

 

[Mello Yello 2,281]

What have they done to this club?

 

Well folks they've given us ..."SOCCERBOT!"

[Highland Canary 76]

Of course, H we start next season with a squad of lower overall quality and fewer high value playing assets to sell. Undoubtedly, there has been a deterioration of player quality and associated financial power since our last relegation.

[WD40 720]

Absolutely no chance that Farke could have survived much longer with the way it became toxic. The accusations would again have been we didn’t even try to make things better. There was no alternative but to replace him. It was said at the time Webber has nowhere to hide now, and so it has come to pass. 
 

Fascinated to how he attempts to explain his comments about the squad being good enough. Hope someone Ike Michael Bailey ask him if money was ‘pissed/spunked up the wall’ in reference to other comments he’s made in the past. 
 

One thing is for sure is he will be claiming the club is achieving it’s stated ambition of being a top 25 club in the country - which we won’t be able to test until next year.