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Branston Pickle

Worst refereeing performance or just VAR?

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6 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Did MOTD show the Williams penalty shout. That of course was about two minutes before they got their penalty and whilst it was softish and I’ve yet to see a replay it was right in front of us and everyone at the time thought it was a clear pen.  

No, they didn't and it was important in the context of the game and the decisions that followed.

It was upon that moment I deleted the recording and vowed never to watch MOTD again, unless we win.

So ill never be watching MOTD again.

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5 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

But that's not the point. Or not for me. I don't think anyone can judge if Pukki was offside by looking at this still. Did you see anything more definite on your screen?

They didn't even bother using the lines as a different view than the one posted on here showed his left foot was offside.

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12 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

But that's not the point. Or not for me. I don't think anyone can judge if Pukki was offside by looking at this still. Did you see anything more definite on your screen?

Anyone watching online probably saw the same feed as I did, which didn't show the lines, but I don't think they ever show the lines when there is a VAR check.

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38 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Anyone watching online probably saw the same feed as I did, which didn't show the lines, but I don't think they ever show the lines when there is a VAR check.

Ok.

But if that's so then how could anyone be confident the decision was right. Or is it a case of VAR said offside so offside it is.

We've already had one apology this season for a wrong decision.

I don't see what's changed for the better enough to warrant the affect VAR has on fans in the stadiums.

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Both Penalties were soft in my opinion. The second is football at its worst Toney goes out of his way to fall over Gibson. It is a dive in all but name.

Would like to see the Williams incident and the offside would like to see a better angle. Plus you could guarantee that if that is a big 6 team against us the goal would be considered a different phase of play so Pukki offside contact no contact is irrelevant 

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

Ok.

But if that's so then how could anyone be confident the decision was right. Or is it a case of VAR said offside so offside it is.

We've already had one apology this season for a wrong decision.

I don't see what's changed for the better enough to warrant the affect VAR has on fans in the stadiums.

Some decisions you can’t be confident of but some are more obvious. This one wasn’t.

What was the decision we had an apology for? I can’t remember.

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Just now, Mr Angry said:

Some decisions you can’t be confident of but some are more obvious. This one wasn’t.

What was the decision we had an apology for? I can’t remember.

Everton's goal. It was offside.

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27 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

Both Penalties were soft in my opinion. The second is football at its worst Toney goes out of his way to fall over Gibson. It is a dive in all but name.

Would like to see the Williams incident and the offside would like to see a better angle. Plus you could guarantee that if that is a big 6 team against us the goal would be considered a different phase of play so Pukki offside contact no contact is irrelevant 

Not sure how this would have been considered a different phase of play for any other team, he was adjudged to have been in an offside position and he touched the ball.

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19 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

Both Penalties were soft in my opinion. The second is football at its worst Toney goes out of his way to fall over Gibson. It is a dive in all but name.

Would like to see the Williams incident and the offside would like to see a better angle. Plus you could guarantee that if that is a big 6 team against us the goal would be considered a different phase of play so Pukki offside contact no contact is irrelevant 

But both penalties were far more evident than the Williams shout and outside the area I think it would have been given.

It will never happen but we have a situation where the game is using technology to tighten decisions, so why aren't referees applying the letter of the law to every decision?

A foul is a foul no matter where it is on the pitch. But we all know refs don't give the same decisions if a penalty may be involved. Last weeks Everton v ManC was evidence of that. Another is "he had lost control" as his legs are scythed from under him.

Refs should be miked up as in Rugby. Then they would have to explain their decisions and also it might cut out the abuse players give to officials. No other sport allows its officials to be questioned or abused.

 

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8 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Everton's goal. It was offside.

Oh, I didn’t know they apologised for that.

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

Ok.

But if that's so then how could anyone be confident the decision was right. Or is it a case of VAR said offside so offside it is.

We've already had one apology this season for a wrong decision.

I don't see what's changed for the better enough to warrant the affect VAR has on fans in the stadiums.

It has never been about the fans no matter where and how they view it. Its about the money generated from the Champions league.

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49 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

It has never been about the fans no matter where and how they view it. Its about the money generated from the Champions league.

There is no correlation between VAR and teams qualifying for the Champions League.

Look at the tables from 2019/20 and look at the VAR stats-

PL

1st  Liverpool-place in VAR table 7th

2nd Man City-place in VAR table 10th

3rd Man Utd-place in VAR table 2nd

4th Chelsea-place in VAR table 13th=

And 20/21

PL

1st  Man City-place in VAR table 8th=

2nd Man Utd-place in VAR table 12th=

3rd Liverpool-place in VAR table 18th=

4th Chelsea-place in VAR table 3rd=

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My main problem with VAR has nothing to do with whether it's fair to all. More does it make enough difference to compensate for totally ruining an a match for supporters.

But I doubt  those VAR stats tell the whole story. If yesterday was Man Utd and Williams was Ronaldo would that penalty appeal have gone to VAR?

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11 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

There is no correlation between VAR and teams qualifying for the Champions League.

Look at the tables from 2019/20 and look at the VAR stats-

PL

1st  Liverpool-place in VAR table 7th

2nd Man City-place in VAR table 10th

3rd Man Utd-place in VAR table 2nd

4th Chelsea-place in VAR table 13th=

And 20/21

PL

1st  Man City-place in VAR table 8th=

2nd Man Utd-place in VAR table 12th=

3rd Liverpool-place in VAR table 18th=

4th Chelsea-place in VAR table 3rd=

Its not about the correlation. Its what they brought it in for. And that was because they said the game was too important.

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6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

My main problem with VAR has nothing to do with whether it's fair to all. More does it make enough difference to compensate for totally ruining an a match for supporters.

But I doubt  those VAR stats tell the whole story. If yesterday was Man Utd and Williams was Ronaldo would that penalty appeal have gone to VAR?

Probably not. Referees are not going to be downgraded by the big clubs.

Oliver refereed this afternoon's game. He will be on a retainer of £42K. He will have a salary of up to £200K and also gets £1500 a game.

When they were plumbers or printers they got little more than good expenses. I think the officials for the FA Cup could have money OR a medal. Not both.

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6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Probably not. Referees are not going to be downgraded by the big clubs.

Oliver refereed this afternoon's game. He will be on a retainer of £42K. He will have a salary of up to £200K and also gets £1500 a game.

When they were plumbers or printers they got little more than good expenses. I think the officials for the FA Cup could have money OR a medal. Not both.

Has the pay been reduced now they don't have big decisions to make?

Could we replace them with Hawkeye and VAR?

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17 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Its not about the correlation. Its what they brought it in for. And that was because they said the game was too important.

Ah, ok, sorry. I thought they bought it in because most people in football wanted it.

 

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2 hours ago, Ulfotto said:

The second is football at its worst Toney goes out of his way to fall over Gibson. It is a dive in all but name.

Spot on. Why do we not have a VAR type committee to oversee dives and ward retrospective punishment. He dived for it by slowing down and leaving his leg in.

F%$£C)ng fumin  😡

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FYI the extended highlights on YouTube have the Williams incident and I can kinda of see why Smith said what he did. Yes the Williams one would be soft but no softer than either of Brentford’s. 

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14 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

Ah, ok, sorry. I thought they bought it in because most people in football wanted it.

 

Half a dozen people thought they were speaking for football. They always do. The early reason was that football was too important, meaning them, for howlers to spoil a match, meaning a result when they lose or draw. All they wanted was for mistakes to be checked. Nothing more.

Since its introduction, only in the EPL because any other league in England isn't important, its original parameters have now increased to offside by the depth of mud on a boot or a players under arm deodorant, handball when the ball is hammered at at a defender from a yard, fouls when their is "contact" and now going back three minutes to check whether there was a foul at the other end of the pitch.

So its far more controversial than when it was left to the ref. Its a wonderful game, the beautiful game as Pele said that has been hijacked purely by greed. And failure is not acceptable.

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20 hours ago, Contrary Canary said:

I’m not too sure if he flagged, but I wonder if the lines were drawn between the tracking Brentford defender and Pukki — and not by checking which norwich player was furthest forward.

To me it’s more akin to a goal in which the striker is one on one and cuts it across to a teammate that runs onto the ball and can score in an empty goal.

I would like to think VAR are competent enough to check/dispute that, but that is at least my understanding. I get that perspective might mean that Pukki is still infact further forward, but it’s definitely closer than it has been reported.

 

 

It’s about whether Pukki is in front of the ball I think not Kenny. But even so I agree it’s not clear cut as Kenny was running back from the corner flag as he crossed it and in that image the ball has already left his foot. 

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