What's gone wrong with Tzolis?

[canarybubbles 1,915]

I think for some of us he was potentially the most exciting signing of the summer transfer market, with lots of knowledgeable people stating he was one of the most promising youngsters in the whole of Europe, and yet he is struggling to get even ten minutes on the pitch at the end of games, with one of our own under-23s being picked in preference. 

What's gone wrong? Is he struggling to adapt to life in England? Are the Greek contingent unhappy because they feel they have moved country and been sidetracked and their careers have hit a cul-de-sac? Did the penalty episode and Farke's subsequent way of dealing with it turn everything sour? Has the bad feeling that possibly existed between Farke and some of our younger players poisoned the well? 

We paid 9-10m for him, so we not only need him to do what he is capable of on the pitch (e.g. the Bournemouth game) for the sake of our fight against relegation, but also to at least get our money back if we are forced to sell.

Personally I really want to see him given a fair crack of the whip (assuming he's trying his best in training and isn't another diva). 

[Mengo 822]

1 minute ago, canarybubbles said:

I think for some of us he was potentially the most exciting signing of the summer transfer market, with lots of knowledgeable people stating he was one of the most promising youngsters in the whole of Europe, and yet he is struggling to get even ten minutes on the pitch at the end of games, with one of our own under-23s being picked in preference. 

What's gone wrong? Is he struggling to adapt to life in England? Are the Greek contingent unhappy because they feel they have moved country and been sidetracked and their careers have hit a cul-de-sac? Did the penalty episode and Farke's subsequent way of dealing with it turn everything sour? Has the bad feeling that possibly existed between Farke and some of our younger players poisoned the well? 

We paid 9-10m for him, so we not only need him to do what he is capable of on the pitch (e.g. the Bournemouth game) for the sake of our fight against relegation, but also to at least get our money back if we are forced to sell.

Personally I really want to see him given a fair crack of the whip (assuming he's trying his best in training and isn't another diva). 

It's a strange one. I had really high hopes for him for the here and now. Only Deano can give you the answer. Me 🤔 thinks.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

He does indeed seem to have not progressed as we all hoped.

[lake district canary 4,531]

We were told when he arrived that he was one for the future.  Patience needed to see how and when he develops - he's very young still - so it may not be this season.

[Mr Angry 1,555]

Just now, lake district canary said:

We were told when he arrived that he was one for the future.  Patience needed to see how and when he develops - he's very young still - so it may not be this season.

Don’t see that, he’s now being overlooked in favour of a player who is a year younger but who only seems to have a fraction of Tzolis’ talent.

[Pyro Pete 1,893]

Right now, he's behind Rashica, Sargent, Placheta, Rowe and Dowell. Even Idah played out wide last night.

Not sure where he goes from here.

[Gordon Bennett 783]

30 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

He does indeed seem to have not progressed as we all hoped.

I think that's probably the crux. I'm sure we all want to see him on the pitch but if he's not one of the coach's top 14-15 players here then his opportunities are going to be rather limited.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Gordon Bennett

[canarybubbles 1,915]

For me, it's such a shame because if we could unlock that potential, we'd have Rashica, Sargent and Tzolis as wing options. Sargent does the hard work and then Tzolis comes on when everyone is getting tired. At least in theory. 🙂

[cornish sam 953]

Perhaps last night wasn't the right kind of game for him. We were protecting what we had and there may be question marks over his willingness/ability for tracking back and getting stuck in defensively...

[canarybubbles 1,915]

2 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

Perhaps last night wasn't the right kind of game for him. We were protecting what we had and there may be question marks over his willingness/ability for tracking back and getting stuck in defensively...

Fair enough, but even when we were 3-0 up against Watford, he didn't get a few token minutes.

[king canary 7,604]

Yeah it is odd- he clearly has some talent but whether its a confidence or an application thing he's clearly falling down the pecking order somewhat. I'd have laughed if you'd told me in August Placheta would have more minutes than Tzolis at this stage but here we are.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

41 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I think for some of us he was potentially the most exciting signing of the summer transfer market, with lots of knowledgeable people stating he was one of the most promising youngsters in the whole of Europe, and yet he is struggling to get even ten minutes on the pitch at the end of games, with one of our own under-23s being picked in preference. 

What's gone wrong? Is he struggling to adapt to life in England? Are the Greek contingent unhappy because they feel they have moved country and been sidetracked and their careers have hit a cul-de-sac? Did the penalty episode and Farke's subsequent way of dealing with it turn everything sour? Has the bad feeling that possibly existed between Farke and some of our younger players poisoned the well? 

We paid 9-10m for him, so we not only need him to do what he is capable of on the pitch (e.g. the Bournemouth game) for the sake of our fight against relegation, but also to at least get our money back if we are forced to sell.

Personally I really want to see him given a fair crack of the whip (assuming he's trying his best in training and isn't another diva). 

 

Greeks are never successful in the Premier League, so it maybe have been a bad idea to spend £16m on two of them.

Probably weren't expecting this response, but here is your proof:

 

Might let Giannakopoulous and Nikos Dabizas off the hook, beyond that I just see a list of expensive flops.

[shefcanary 2,402]

25 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

Perhaps last night wasn't the right kind of game for him. We were protecting what we had and there may be question marks over his willingness/ability for tracking back and getting stuck in defensively...

I think that is the most likely answer.  He continues to get on the bench so Smith must believe he has something t offer, just hasn't found the right situation for him yet to come on.

[wr4sb 33]

Doesn't he play in Rashica's position on the left? Maybe Smith doesn't want one on the right?

[Making Plans 936]

We are doing ok at the moment with the players we're currently using.

Why put at risk our recent improvement and momentum for somebody who has shown absolutely zero during his appearances thus far.

Makes no sense to me,

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,715]

17 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

 

Greeks are never successful in the Premier League, so it maybe have been a bad idea to spend £16m on two of them.

Probably weren't expecting this response, but here is your proof:

 

Might let Giannakopoulous and Nikos Dabizas off the hook, beyond that I just see a list of expensive flops.

Some proper scrabble winning names on there

[lake district canary 4,531]

He gets on the bench so plainly has something. Please let's not write him off, as we know from recent history that players can take a while to settle and develop. We were told he was one for the future - so lets give him time to find his feet. 

[Samwam27 527]

Well you could argue it's taken a few seasons for Placheta to get some proper minutes. He's on the bench regularly so must be doing something right in training (although Mclean does nothing every game 🤣) 

We just have to give him time 

[Google Bot 3,275]

Nothings gone wrong, he's still young and not ready for prem first team action - hardly a crisis.

He hasn't got the pace of PP, Rashica or Rowe which is needed with our play.   He possesses a great touch and solid center of gravity however - his time well come.  Emi not the pacey-ist of players but was afforded time in the Championship to find his feet in the English game.

[Capt. Pants 4,227]

Surprised we didn't send him out on loan in January if there are no plans to involve him much this season. When he does come on he actually does very little.

He seems to have been leap-frogged by young Rowe who looks a grafter and has obviously impressed in training.

He might not even make the bench once Sargent returns.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 hour ago, Mr Angry said:

Don’t see that, he’s now being overlooked in favour of a player who is a year younger but who only seems to have a fraction of Tzolis’ talent.

My thoughts exactly - but then again can we honestly say based on performances that Rowe only has a 'fraction of the talent' of Tzolis? I'm not sure. He certainly has a fraction of the price tag!

I could understand Tzolis not getting game time if our wingers had been firing on all cylinders, which feasibly could've happened if Cantwell wanted to play for us and someone like Dowell stepped it up a notch, on top of Sargent / Rashica.

But given the patchy form of our wingers and the number of injuries we've had, you'd really have expected him to have gotten far more opportunities than he has. 

The fact that Placheta, who was arguably our 8th choice winger before the start of the season (behind Rashica, Sargent, Dowell, Cantwell, Tzolis, Hernandez, Idah) and Rowe (one year younger than Tzolis and not exactly pulling up trees) are now considered ahead of him is not at all a good sign at all. 

There is no justification for Webber spending ~£10m on a prospect who is then below the pecking order of an even younger academy player... This was clearly not the plan!

Really was not the player we needed, even if he comes good in a couple of years' time; £10 million on a defensive midfielder to play that anchorman role could've been the difference to staying up (if we do go down). That windfall represents much more value than making a profit on Tzolis in a few years time.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

19 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Surprised we didn't send him out on loan in January if there are no plans to involve him much this season. When he does come on he actually does very little.

Agreed. Hernandez would offer far more and doesn't need the 'development' time playing regularly football. Would've surely made sense to bring him back and replace Tzolis' position in the team and make sure that Tzolis is getting regular football (and perhaps build back that confidence he has lost in the 6 months he's been here).

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

2 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Some proper scrabble winning names on there

Not allowed names on scrabble. So there 

[Mr Angry 1,555]

3 hours ago, Making Plans said:

We are doing ok at the moment with the players we're currently using.

Why put at risk our recent improvement and momentum for somebody who has shown absolutely zero during his appearances thus far.

Makes no sense to me,

 

I wouldn’t say he’s shown zero so far-he played well against Bournemouth-I know it wasn’t their first XI but it wasn’t ours either-and I thought he was one of the better players against Newcastle and I was surprised that he got subbed at halftime. His last start was away at Palace and admittedly I didn’t watch that game-perhaps he was so bad that he’s going to have to wait his turn?

 

[Boris 56]

that penalty against Liverpool and nervous Farke slams him on media after game seems upset this buy too much.

He is a kid who all his life used to live with his parrents and have only 1 full season on top Greek league ,big task to grow fast enough in totally different league and country.

Big gamble since begin and seems our female Greek scout pushed this deal and we pay too much.

Me personally see him on loan back to Greece or Holland,Belgium to try back confidence and match fit. 

[hepphep 175]

Young guy, first time moving to abroad to play in league with very different style and tempo. Could be also first time in his career that he has had such major competition to get to play or even to bench. And as stated earlier, he was told to be one for future.

Why not loan? Likely so that he gets familiar with club and really learns the level that is demanded to break through here. I'm sure that if he is not ready to compete for starting eleven next summer, he will then get loan and come back better equipped to take his claim. He is not one dimensional speedster, but more technical player so it is harder to use his talent immediately with higher tempo and less space. 

Maybe he should really be judged only after year or two.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

Must confess to having never heard of him before this summer

Spending £10m on a 19yr old who in Webber's own admission wasnt bought to play this season was scandalous business when that money should have been put toward a ready made premier lge player.

He's very little use to us at the moment and clearly isnt ready to be risked in the run in.

We would genuinely had been better off recalling Hernandez in January (who may have been of some use off the bench) and loaning out Tzolis to Birmingham for the last 4 months of the season to have at least played some English football.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

Big question for me is 'Was he bought knowing that he wouldnt be ready to contrubute to the first team this season?'

If 'yes' then that is a sixth of Farke's warchest blown on a player for the future. He might have preferred a player that would have helped him keep his job, rather than aid his successor one day. Id be pretty salty about that if I was Farke, sold him down the river.

If 'no' then surely that is a failure of scouting. I mean, it's not like he's played loads of games and just been poor - any signing can not come off or play poorly or take time to adjust, but unlike our other signings who have been poor, Tzolis just hasnt featured.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

14 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Big question for me is 'Was he bought knowing that he wouldnt be ready to contrubute to the first team this season?'

If 'yes' then that is a sixth of Farke's warchest blown on a player for the future. He might have preferred a player that would have helped him keep his job, rather than aid his successor one day. Id be pretty salty about that if I was Farke, sold him down the river.

If 'no' then surely that is a failure of scouting. I mean, it's not like he's played loads of games and just been poor - any signing can not come off or play poorly or take time to adjust, but unlike our other signings who have been poor, Tzolis just hasnt featured.

So basically it’s either a poor piece of scouting, or a poor use of our transfer budget. Can’t really put it down as much else at the minute sadly.

[hogesar 9,658]

Placheta and Rowe are ahead of him so he's clearly struggling. Would love to defend him but unlike our other signings I've not seen any real genuine talent, ability or potential in his performances so far.