Byram in for Aarons?

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,633]

It's a yes for me. 

I think we need his leadership and experience, especially in the next two. He's a better defender IMO. It's a difficult decision for Smith, as I'm sure there's a pressure to maximise Max's value, which won't happen with him sat on the bench. I'm not saying that's the reason he play's by the way, he's a quality footballer, but it is a factor. 

Smith has some tough decisions to make. Another one, potentially dropping Idah. I'm not sure the 4-4-2 has longevity, and eventually Smith will need to resort to either three in the middle, or a holding two. Both including Normann and hopefully Sorenson. 

[Newtopia 573]

I thought Aarons made a couple mistakes last night, but coped on the whole well with Zaha, who is a class (but moany) act.

Definitely No for me.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Not for me. Aarons is much the better player going forwards and a far more agile defender too, Zaha would've skinned Byram for fun.

To be honest I thought Aarons was one of our better outfield performers last night, really enjoyed the Zaha battle, which definitely didn't all go one way - of course the goal was top drawer but don't really think Aarons was at all at fault (I believe it was Placheta who was marking Zaha at that moment) and the penalty conceded was an unfortunate tangle of legs. Hardly a surprise that he did get caught out a couple of times given the pressure we were having to withstand. 

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

I would like to see them both in the team. I will probably get called muppet or something but I think Byram holds his position well and could be of value in midfield doing what Ollie did last year. At the moment, if you watch the Palace goal last night, Aarons drops narrow to cover Hanley and that leaves a massive hole for the opposition to hit diagonal balls into that hole. I think if Byram sat solid in front of the CB's, Aarons can go wider. He isn't attacking much at the moment and concentrating on defence.

[lake district canary 4,830]

5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I would like to see them both in the team. I will probably get called muppet or something but I think Byram holds his position well and could be of value in midfield doing what Ollie did last year. At the moment, if you watch the Palace goal last night, Aarons drops narrow to cover Hanley and that leaves a massive hole for the opposition to hit diagonal balls into that hole. I think if Byram sat solid in front of the CB's, Aarons can go wider. He isn't attacking much at the moment and concentrating on defence.

Agree totally with that. No reason why they can't both be in the team, especially in the games coming up.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,633]

6 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Not for me. Aarons is much the better player going forwards and a far more agile defender too, Zaha would've skinned Byram for fun.

To be honest I thought Aarons was one of our better outfield performers last night, really enjoyed the Zaha battle, which definitely didn't all go one way - of course the goal was top drawer but don't really think Aarons was at all at fault (I believe it was Placheta who was marking Zaha at that moment) and the penalty conceded was an unfortunate tangle of legs. Hardly a surprise that he did get caught out a couple of times given the pressure we were having to withstand. 

I'm not so sure. Byram's defensive position is better, as well as his judgement as to when to drop off or engage. Although I do agree, Aarons handled Zaha well. But the goal comes from his side, and he's clumsy for the penalty. 

I don't get the going forward argument. I think Aarons attacking play as regressed over the last 12-18 months. He still gets forward, but in the main his decision making is erratic and final ball poor. I think he assisted for Pukki's goal against Southampton, but any other times?

[Mengo 852]

16 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I would like to see them both in the team. I will probably get called muppet or something but I think Byram holds his position well and could be of value in midfield doing what Ollie did last year. At the moment, if you watch the Palace goal last night, Aarons drops narrow to cover Hanley and that leaves a massive hole for the opposition to hit diagonal balls into that hole. I think if Byram sat solid in front of the CB's, Aarons can go wider. He isn't attacking much at the moment and concentrating on defence.

Agreed 👍. Would love to see this. Aarons lately has been low key for quite a few games now. His ability is not in question.  Byram could undoubtedly help his cause. Byram for me is one top player a man for all seasons.

 

[Sooty57 414]

Interestingly, on the CP forum last night several of the posters were saying "we must buy Aarons when Norwich go down", mainly because of the job he did on Zaha.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

17 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

I'm not so sure. Byram's defensive position is better, as well as his judgement as to when to drop off or engage. Although I do agree, Aarons handled Zaha well. But the goal comes from his side, and he's clumsy for the penalty. 

I don't get the going forward argument. I think Aarons attacking play as regressed over the last 12-18 months. He still gets forward, but in the main his decision making is erratic and final ball poor. I think he assisted for Pukki's goal against Southampton, but any other times?

"The goal comes from his side" - well it would do wouldn't it - seeing as Zaha is about 10,000 times better than Olise who spent the whole game checking back on to his left foot. Overall Aarons handled Zaha very well last night. 

And to say that Aarons was 'clumsy' for their goal is eyewateringly ridiculous. Aarons was initially 1 on 1 with Zaha - the problem was that Mitchell was underlapping at pace and unfortunately Placheta didn't pick up his run on that occasion. In that moment Aarons was trying to defend a 2 against 1 situation in his own box - the penalty wasn't his fault!!!

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

15 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

I don't get the going forward argument. I think Aarons attacking play as regressed over the last 12-18 months. He still gets forward, but in the main his decision making is erratic and final ball poor. I think he assisted for Pukki's goal against Southampton, but any other times?

I would agree that Aarons hasn't be as effective as he has been in the past, but he still spun Zaha a few times times last night to get past him and supported our play well - I just think opportunities for our full backs to get forwards are pretty limited at the moment, particularly given how much more direct we have gone under Smith. 

The frustrating thing with Aarons for me is that he often does all the hard work and gets a couple of yards ahead of his man, only to then chop back and let the defender get back into position. I feel the 18/19 Aarons played with less fear somewhat in that sense (admittedly also in the championship).

Bailey's article on how Aarons is underrated by NCFC fans in the Athletic was definitely a good read! Showed that he's much the better defender than most give him credit for IMO.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

43 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Not for me. Aarons is much the better player going forwards and a far more agile defender too, Zaha would've skinned Byram for fun.

To be honest I thought Aarons was one of our better outfield performers last night, really enjoyed the Zaha battle, which definitely didn't all go one way - of course the goal was top drawer but don't really think Aarons was at all at fault (I believe it was Placheta who was marking Zaha at that moment) and the penalty conceded was an unfortunate tangle of legs. Hardly a surprise that he did get caught out a couple of times given the pressure we were having to withstand. 

Not sure with the bit in bold, but there is the caveat we don't know what Byram's got against that sort of player after his injuries. We do know he played brilliantly against Sterling when we famously beat them 3-2.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Just now, TheGunnShow said:

Not sure with the bit in bold, but there is the caveat we don't know what Byram's got against that sort of player after his injuries. We do know he played brilliantly against Sterling when we famously beat them 3-2.

He did yes, but I think he is still getting up to speed, he's not looked at the 19/20 levels yet.

Aarons and Zaha are both super agile players, and they showed that in spades last night constantly trying to 'one-up' each other, I really don't think Byram in his current state would've been able to cope with Zaha very well. 

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

Just now, Hank shoots Skyler said:

He did yes, but I think he is still getting up to speed, he's not looked at the 19/20 levels yet.

Aarons and Zaha are both super agile players, and they showed that in spades last night constantly trying to 'one-up' each other, I really don't think Byram in his current state would've been able to cope with Zaha very well. 

A fair point, I'd essentially said it was the key caveat. Really, all I wanted to say was that Byram certainly has form for holding up proven classy wingers in the past.

[ZLF 335]

Apart from the pen,  which was a mistake,  I thought max was good against the best attacking bambi on the pitch last night.  He also offered an occasional attacking that was absent on the left flank,  so no, would look to make that swap.   The goal was a team failure - a lack of closing down of olise by the LB and PP giving Zaha far too much space on the right.

 

We lost the game by inviting palace onto us and an inability of cm to either win the ball back (8 times all game) or keep it when they had it (Kenny  56%, Gilmour 44% and Normann 38%) That PLM had 4 ball wins (Kenny 3) and a pass success rate of 77% shows how poor we were in that area of the pitch. 

 

 

[Mr Angry 2,019]

Max seems to have great belief in his own ability, but sometimes that means trying to beat an opposing player who is closing him down around our 18 yard line. If he loses the ball there, which he does on occasion, it puts us in trouble.
 

I don’t think the probability of us creating a chance if he does manage to beat his man doing this, against the probability of the opposition creating a chance if he loses the ball, makes it worth the risk.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,633]

2 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

"The goal comes from his side" - well it would do wouldn't it - seeing as Zaha is about 10,000 times better than Olise who spent the whole game checking back on to his left foot. Overall Aarons handled Zaha very well last night. 

And to say that Aarons was 'clumsy' for their goal is eyewateringly ridiculous. Aarons was initially 1 on 1 with Zaha - the problem was that Mitchell was underlapping at pace and unfortunately Placheta didn't pick up his run on that occasion. In that moment Aarons was trying to defend a 2 against 1 situation in his own box - the penalty wasn't his fault!!!

Eye wateringly ridiculous? Have a word! Regardless of the phase of play beforehand, it was still clumsy the way he brought the palace player down! As for the second bit, that's an eye wateringly bizarre statement. Of course it was his fault, he gave the penalty away!! Yes there may have been mitigating circumstances, but fault still lays with him! I'm not trying to bash Aarons btw, just react to your comment! 

[AJ 1,359]

Personally I thought Aaron's had a great game against a really tough winger and on the whole did very well against him. The goal didn't really come from his mistake, Placheta was the one who failed to stop him getting the ball in. The pen was a nothing incident, just lost his man a little and fell over him

[Worthy Nigelton 1,301]

Byram is very good, but he shouldnt start ahead of Max if both are fully fit.

[cambridgeshire canary 7,798]

It's a no from me.

[Boris 62]

max have extra flair and huge motivation to play ,only worie me that too often have one big mistake lead to goals.

Penalty with Man U and last evening was one of them that put shadow on his performence .

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

I'd put Byram in against the big teams where I'd expect us to be up against the wall a lot, Aarons in when we are more likely to get a counter going or be on the front foot.

Left-field idea.... if Sarge is not available for City, why not put Aarons on the flank and Byram behind?

[yellowrider120 917]

Common assumption is that Air Rons is not as good defensively as ploughing forward. Last night (first half particularly) there were at least two occasions (possibly three from memory) when our defence was getting caught out and he launched in with last ditch blocks / clearances to get us out of trouble. Had that not happened we would have been roasted. Byram is a quality defender but I doubt he would have come out on top of those running battles with Zaha second half that Air Rons did.      

[duke63 739]

Wasn't it Williams 5th booking last night which i assume means he is out for the next game. Come in, Sam Byram.

[Pyro Pete 2,353]

Max has been excellent this season. Certainly one of our most consistent performers.

But last night he should have been up with Placheta to block the inside path for Zaha. But he chose to hang back, which sold Placheta out. Not great when giving away the penalty either.

But it was a difficult job to track Zaha out wide, and also stay narrow to cover Hanley.

I rate Byram very highly. And would have no problem with him replacing Aarons. But personally I would push Max up on the right wing, with Sam in behind at right back!

[SwearyCanary 1,340]

4 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'd put Byram in against the big teams where I'd expect us to be up against the wall a lot, Aarons in when we are more likely to get a counter going or be on the front foot.

Left-field idea.... if Sarge is not available for City, why not put Aarons on the flank and Byram behind?

Totally agree. I actually see Aarons as better going forward than Placheta with defensive qualities that means he could do a better job tracking back. More creative and positive too. 
Byram for me is our best defensive player, I think he reads the game so well. 
 

sweary