****The Official Lapps Match Thread v C. Palace (PL) ****

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

We really needed to win that one but couldn't. Palace are a decent side but nothing exceptional for the PL and they bossed us.

We lack that bit of quality and I'll be very surprised if we stay up.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

Don't panic!  We'll be fine.

The 3 relegated teams this season will be - Burnley, Watford and Brentford

[king canary 7,580]

People criticising the starting line up, I'm a bit confused what else Smith was supposed to do? The Idah and Pukki combo has been key to our recent performances, Norman has played 30 minutes of football in the last three months and starting Gilmour wouldn't have made any difference.

[Mengo 822]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Not a bad point considering Palace are a bogey team of ours, bit of a let off though lets be honest.

Yep and we move on to the next game

 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Quick look at the table and I think we have to be targetting Brentford. 6 points ahead of us but 6 pointer coming up against them. Staying ahead of Burnley and Watford is plausible. Newcastle have gone draw draw win win so you would expect with their new signings for them to keep such momentum. Leeds will probably be ok. Everton are in trouble but imagine if we could sp*nk £40m on one player, you'd imagine they'd have enough to turn it round. So realistically I think its Brentford we need to be thinking about replacing. 

Unlikely to get anything from Man City or Liverpool, then we have two teams we've beaten already this season, Southampton and Brentford so reasons for optimism, as long as we dont get too large a pasting by Man City or Liverpool and hope the others dont pick up points while we're getting stuffed

[KiwiScot 1,441]

Just now, The Great Mass Debater said:

Unlikely to get anything from Man City or Liverpool

True, but we've got more fight in us to grind out a draw from one of those. Can't beat mid table, but we can make it difficult for them so try that harder against the fixture congested top teams.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

6 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

We really needed to win that one but couldn't. Palace are a decent side but nothing exceptional for the PL and they bossed us.

We lack that bit of quality and I'll be very surprised if we stay up.

My biggest concern about this team is how flat it is. We dont have a Buendia or a Hoolahan - that little genius you know can change a game. For years we had Wes, then we had Buendia with Maddison in between. We've always had that flair player you'd hope to get the ball to that can do something special - Huckerby to name another. But we dont have that in this team. Rashica and Normann are the closest we have to that. You just watch and think, who's going to change the game for us? Who's going to pull a rabbit out of the hat the way Zaha did. Im really surprised we didnt try to do some business this window, even if it meant cancelling some loans or moving some people on.

Gilmour was supposed to be it but isnt. Cantwell, well...

[rock bus 850]

4 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

My biggest concern about this team is how flat it is. We dont have a Buendia or a Hoolahan - that little genius you know can change a game. For years we had Wes, then we had Buendia with Maddison in between. We've always had that flair player you'd hope to get the ball to that can do something special - Huckerby to name another. But we dont have that in this team. Rashica and Normann are the closest we have to that. You just watch and think, who's going to change the game for us? Who's going to pull a rabbit out of the hat the way Zaha did. Im really surprised we didnt try to do some business this window, even if it meant cancelling some loans or moving some people on.

Gilmour was supposed to be it but isnt. Cantwell, well...

Going on tonight’s first half performance the answer is Rashica!

[Jambomo 215]

13 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Quick look at the table and I think we have to be targetting Brentford. 6 points ahead of us but 6 pointer coming up against them. Staying ahead of Burnley and Watford is plausible. Newcastle have gone draw draw win win so you would expect with their new signings for them to keep such momentum. Leeds will probably be ok. Everton are in trouble but imagine if we could sp*nk £40m on one player, you'd imagine they'd have enough to turn it round. So realistically I think its Brentford we need to be thinking about replacing. 

Unlikely to get anything from Man City or Liverpool, then we have two teams we've beaten already this season, Southampton and Brentford so reasons for optimism, as long as we dont get too large a pasting by Man City or Liverpool and hope the others dont pick up points while we're getting stuffed

I actually think Everton are in trouble. They spent money but I’m not sure they spent it all that wisely. I also don’t really rate Lampard as a manager, he’s been out the game a while now and never really did a lot to suggest he was a especially great manager when he was in post. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,254]

20 minutes ago, king canary said:

People criticising the starting line up, I'm a bit confused what else Smith was supposed to do? The Idah and Pukki combo has been key to our recent performances, Norman has played 30 minutes of football in the last three months and starting Gilmour wouldn't have made any difference.

Agree with this entirely. No way was Normann fit enough to start this game, and Gilmour showed when he came on what difference he would have made, ie none. 

We wouldn't have scored the early goal with only one up front. Every team selection is a compromise.

[Robert N. LiM 4,254]

18 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Quick look at the table and I think we have to be targetting Brentford. 6 points ahead of us but 6 pointer coming up against them. Staying ahead of Burnley and Watford is plausible. Newcastle have gone draw draw win win so you would expect with their new signings for them to keep such momentum. Leeds will probably be ok. Everton are in trouble but imagine if we could sp*nk £40m on one player, you'd imagine they'd have enough to turn it round. So realistically I think its Brentford we need to be thinking about replacing. 

 

Yes, exactly. 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

18 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

I actually think Everton are in trouble. They spent money but I’m not sure they spent it all that wisely. I also don’t really rate Lampard as a manager, he’s been out the game a while now and never really did a lot to suggest he was a especially great manager when he was in post. 

Everton have certainly taken a gamble, replacing a proven manager like Benitez with Lampard who has very little to point to in his managerial career.

I said on another thread that I imagine no money in January was a condition of taking the Norwich job. Lampard takes the Everton job and immediately £40m spunked on one player.

I do think Everton have enough resources to turn it round, but it would mean a lot to the 14 year old me that cried when we got relegated and Everton survived after taking Mike Walker

Edited February 9, 2022 by The Great Mass Debater

[Jim Smith 2,314]

25 minutes ago, king canary said:

People criticising the starting line up, I'm a bit confused what else Smith was supposed to do? The Idah and Pukki combo has been key to our recent performances, Norman has played 30 minutes of football in the last three months and starting Gilmour wouldn't have made any difference.

I think he needed to play a midfield three. That duo was always going to surrender possession and not give us enough quality on the ball. They both put a decent shift in but at this level you need a bit more. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,254]

37 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Im hoping Normann will be ready to start the next game. We have really missed him

Judging by how late he came on, I think that's unlikely. A more realistic hope would be to use the Citeh and Lpool games to get him up to speed for Southampton

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

13 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Agree with this entirely. No way was Normann fit enough to start this game, and Gilmour showed when he came on what difference he would have made, ie none. 

We wouldn't have scored the early goal with only one up front. Every team selection is a compromise.

When you look at the squad for potential ways Smith could do things differently, all I can really think of is Giannoulis at left midfield, which might work quite well, though Rashica has played all his best games on the left.

Tzolis must be way off the level required to be behind Placheta and Rowe, even Cantwell at one stage. This is a player we paid £10m for and hs contribution so far this season has been zero. Seems a really inappropriate use of this seasons transfer budget. Either it was felt he could play a part this season but two successive managers have thought otherwise so he clearly isnt (massive fail), or £10m of Farke's warchest was knowingly wasted on one for the future. Sure Farke would have preferred a player he could put in his team and maybe have kept his job, rather than one that might benefit his successor one sunny day

Edited February 9, 2022 by The Great Mass Debater

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

10 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I do think Everton have enough resources to turn it round, but it would mean a lot to the 14 year old me that cried when we got relegated and Everton survived after taking Mike Walker

I used to have a ripped up Everton poster on my wall. I was seriously salty about it

[Robert N. LiM 4,254]

Just now, The Great Mass Debater said:

When you look at the squad for potential ways Smith could do things differently, all I can really think of is Giannoulis at left midfield, which might work quite well, though Rashica has played all his best games on the left.

Tzolis must be way off the level required to be behind Placheta and Rowe, even Cantwell at one stage. This is a player we paid £10m for and hs contribution so far this season has been zero. Seems a really inappropriate use of this seasons transfer budget. Either it was felt he could play a part this season but two successive managers have thought otherwise so he clearly isnt (massive fail), or £10m of Farke's warchest was wasted on one for the future. Sure Farke would have preferred a player he could put in his team and maybe have kept his job, rather than one that might benefit his successor one sunny day

Funnily enough Dimi would have been in my team for tonight instead of Placheta. He seems perfectly suited to the wide role in Smith's current formation (or in the 4-3-4)

I assumed that Farke must have lost a lot of Deutschmarks when Merkel bailed out Greece, and that's why he seemed to hate both Dimi and Tzolis, but given DS seems to feel the same it suggests neither of them are quite up to it.

I do think Tzolis has been oddly handled. When you look at how long it's taken Rashica, Sargent and Lees-Melou to look even close to PL standard, with far more minutes played than Tzolis, it does seem really weird we haven't used him more off the bench to try to get him up to speed. I know that they stressed he was 'one for the future', but surely they didn't spend £10million on him in the assumption he would play almost no role in our attempt to survive. Very strange.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

Really surprised by some of the comments on here tonight.  The run continues, it's another point. We were below par, but still got a point against a decent Palace team.

We've gained a point on Everton and Brentford with this round of games. 

We can't control the results of other teams when we're not playing them.  So yes, Newcastle won, but that is beyond our control.  So don't let the Newcastle result yesterday affect your judgement of our result today.

We've shown how well we can play recently.  Things are looking much more positive than they were a few games ago.  Even the best teams have off days and poor games.  Your aim on those days is to not lose games.  

Every point in the PL is precious.  So please grasp it and appreciate it and give it the value it deserves.

Ultimately, I think Everton will have enough to stay up. Although they are currently on a terrible run and have only 5 points from their last 12 league games (the worst in the league).  Big Frank Lampard needs to get them going soon and they could obviously quite realistically still go down.

Brentford are also dropping like a stone, they'll be getting really jittery.  Look what happened to us in the 1994/95 season.  Brentford have 1 win and 7 defeats from their last 8 league games.

Whatever your views, nobody can deny that things are looking more positive for us than they were a few weeks ago.

[Mengo 822]

33 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

My biggest concern about this team is how flat it is. We dont have a Buendia or a Hoolahan - that little genius you know can change a game. For years we had Wes, then we had Buendia with Maddison in between. We've always had that flair player you'd hope to get the ball to that can do something special - Huckerby to name another. But we dont have that in this team. Rashica and Normann are the closest we have to that. You just watch and think, who's going to change the game for us? Who's going to pull a rabbit out of the hat the way Zaha did. Im really surprised we didnt try to do some business this window, even if it meant cancelling some loans or moving some people on.

Gilmour was supposed to be it but isnt. Cantwell, well...

What good rabbit 🐇  with that penalty🤣

[Ian 1,129]

8 minutes ago, norfolkbroadslim said:

Really surprised by some of the comments on here tonight.  The run continues, it's another point. We were below par, but still got a point against a decent Palace team.

We've gained a point on Everton and Brentford with this round of games. 

We can't control the results of other teams when we're not playing them.  So yes, Newcastle won, but that is beyond our control.  So don't let the Newcastle result yesterday affect your judgement of our result today.

We've shown how well we can play recently.  Things are looking much more positive than they were a few games ago.  Even the best teams have off days and poor games.  Your aim on those days is to not lose games.  

Every point in the PL is precious.  So please grasp it and appreciate it and give it the value it deserves.

Ultimately, I think Everton will have enough to stay up. Although they are currently on a terrible run and have only 5 points from their last 12 league games (the worst in the league).  Big Frank Lampard needs to get them going soon and they could obviously quite realistically still go down.

Brentford are also dropping like a stone, they'll be getting really jittery.  Look what happened to us in the 1994/95 season.  Brentford have 1 win and 7 defeats from their last 8 league games.

Whatever your views, nobody can deny that things are looking more positive for us than they were a few weeks ago.

Great post, but are you *really* surprised - this is the Pink Un forum after all?! 7 points from 9, 2 wins against teams around us, and players coming back from injury

Palace have a very good squad even at this level, I feel like some people need a pretty big reality check. Hopefully not one incoming on Saturday...

[Newtopia 517]

What a roller coaster of a game, I thought Kenny and PLM worked hard, although I think if we stay up those positions still stand out as needing to be upgraded.   Thought Rashica, Idah, Aarons, and Williams played really well.  I thought Billy tried, I think he is either not quick enough or strong enough, whilst Normann looked rusty, but his through ball was excellent.

I was blown away with how strong the Palace bench was, really showed the difference in squad. 

[Mengo 822]

14 minutes ago, norfolkbroadslim said:

Really surprised by some of the comments on here tonight.  The run continues, it's another point. We were below par, but still got a point against a decent Palace team.

We've gained a point on Everton and Brentford with this round of games. 

We can't control the results of other teams when we're not playing them.  So yes, Newcastle won, but that is beyond our control.  So don't let the Newcastle result yesterday affect your judgement of our result today.

We've shown how well we can play recently.  Things are looking much more positive than they were a few games ago.  Even the best teams have off days and poor games.  Your aim on those days is to not lose games.  

Every point in the PL is precious.  So please grasp it and appreciate it and give it the value it deserves.

Ultimately, I think Everton will have enough to stay up. Although they are currently on a terrible run and have only 5 points from their last 12 league games (the worst in the league).  Big Frank Lampard needs to get them going soon and they could obviously quite realistically still go down.

Brentford are also dropping like a stone, they'll be getting really jittery.  Look what happened to us in the 1994/95 season.  Brentford have 1 win and 7 defeats from their last 8 league games.

Whatever your views, nobody can deny that things are looking more positive for us than they were a few weeks ago.

Wow . What a really level headed post 

I agree 👍 with you one 💯 %. Thanks for your undoubted ability at seeing things in a controlled manner. 🍻 cheers.

[paddycanary 538]

37 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Everton have certainly taken a gamble, replacing a proven manager like Benitez with Lampard who has very little to point to in his managerial career.

I said on another thread that I imagine no money in January was a condition of taking the Norwich job. Lampard takes the Everton job and immediately £40m spunked on one player.

I do think Everton have enough resources to turn it round, but it would mean a lot to the 14 year old me that cried when we got relegated and Everton survived after taking Mike Walker

Yep, the way things unravelled after Christmas that season still hurts today and had far-reaching consequences which continues to affect how this club operates today imo; the dismantling of a very competitive squad during that period, Walker 'chasing the dream', financial struggles, Gunn injury, upheaval...

I seem to recall a brief respite with a green-haired Jamie Cureton leading an enjoyable 3-0 romp against 1p5wich, but (without checking) that was the only post new-year victory as we dropped like a stone after a very respectable position at Christmas (top 4/5?). Hopefully Brentford can emulate that feat over the next few months & we overtake them. Still a sad chapter all these years later (Ruel Fox to Newcastle in 94 😰)

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

We are down, but I am at least feeling less grumpy about our performances. Facing reality, tonight we somehow drew vs a mid-low table team. We looked like a side in lower leagues clinging onto our surprise lead. We were playing Palace, so no giant killing. We need these kinds of results 2-3 times a season against actual giants, snatching a point from a poor Utd, or an inconsistent Arsenal, maybe a misfiring West Ham. However, we scrape a draw v a team we need to be going toe to toe with. Ingredients are there for a decent championship campaign, with some key players being blooded there in readiness (eg Mumba to come in for Williams), but we just need to hope that Burnley and Brentford or Watford join us, as anyone else will walk automatic places. In spite of this, I’m feeling optimism for some reason. 
Nice to hear some more nuanced irony this evening with Connor Gallagher being called a ‘s*** Billy Gilmour’ by the snake pit, which secretly just the snake pit chanting to Billy Gilmour that he was just a ‘s*** Billy Gilmour’ 😂. I think we all agree which Chelsea chap we’d rather have! 
 

been a while - sorry for the ramble

 

Sweary

[graz 22]

Perspective for me is Spurs lost at home to Southampton and Villa drew at home to Leeds. Teams below them in the league. As a team in the bottom 3 any points against a team above us is a good effort. We may go down but at least we aren't embarrassing ourselves now.

[Capt. Pants 4,203]

9 hours ago, Newtopia said:

What a roller coaster of a game, I thought Kenny and PLM worked hard, although I think if we stay up those positions still stand out as needing to be upgraded.   Thought Rashica, Idah, Aarons, and Williams played really well.  I thought Billy tried, I think he is either not quick enough or strong enough, whilst Normann looked rusty, but his through ball was excellent.

I was blown away with how strong the Palace bench was, really showed the difference in squad. 

I thought Palace were one of the better sides we've seen this season, so a point is no disgrace. They are in rebuild too, bedding in new players and a different way of playing under Viera. They were streets ahead of Everton, Watford and Wolves.

Still all to play for but I think we'll need to get a shock win off one of the 'big boys', and will probably need to avoid defeat to Spurs as a minimum in the final match of the season.

[KernowCanary 214]

We’re for sure finally playing football now and putting a run together. We just have to keep it up for the rest of the season and after we overtake them again, hope the oil money merchants below us stay there.

Burnley and Watford are both messed up to the core in the back room and financially, it’s just one relegation place left. We have fight in us, the other two do not.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

10 hours ago, paddycanary said:

Yep, the way things unravelled after Christmas that season still hurts today and had far-reaching consequences which continues to affect how this club operates today imo; the dismantling of a very competitive squad during that period, Walker 'chasing the dream', financial struggles, Gunn injury, upheaval...

I seem to recall a brief respite with a green-haired Jamie Cureton leading an enjoyable 3-0 romp against 1p5wich, but (without checking) that was the only post new-year victory as we dropped like a stone after a very respectable position at Christmas (top 4/5?). Hopefully Brentford can emulate that feat over the next few months & we overtake them. Still a sad chapter all these years later (Ruel Fox to Newcastle in 94 😰)

Yes, the gradual loss of all our best players hurt a young me repeatedly. No transfer windows back then so one of your heroes could be gone at any time if the price was right. Remember hearing Fox had gone from my form tutor and not believing him. I had 14 on the back of my shirt so was gutted.

That relegation hurt because as you say it had long lasting ramifications. We got relegated just as the money was starting to come in, and the club declined at just the wrong time making it hard to recover.

Obviously noone could have predicted what would happen with the Premier League, but it's ironic that Chase stripped the playing assets because he sniffed the money, but ironically if he'd kept hold of the players and the club had stayed in the division he'd have made a lot more money. Sad times when they should have been the greatest of times. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,253]

13 hours ago, norfolkbroadslim said:

Don't panic!  We'll be fine.

The 3 relegated teams this season will be - Burnley, Watford and Brentford

Brentford have Palace at home next. If Palace win, last night was a very good point. 

If we are to stay up, we're going to have to find some points against some of the top 6/7 sides, as well as win our three big six pointers Brentford, Burnley and Newcastle). 

We have three really tough games now. We don't want to go into Southampton on the back of two defeats. I don't fancy us down there anyway. I think through shear grit and determination, a point at home to Man City is possible. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,253]

12 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

When you look at the squad for potential ways Smith could do things differently, all I can really think of is Giannoulis at left midfield, which might work quite well, though Rashica has played all his best games on the left.

Tzolis must be way off the level required to be behind Placheta and Rowe, even Cantwell at one stage. This is a player we paid £10m for and hs contribution so far this season has been zero. Seems a really inappropriate use of this seasons transfer budget. Either it was felt he could play a part this season but two successive managers have thought otherwise so he clearly isnt (massive fail), or £10m of Farke's warchest was knowingly wasted on one for the future. Sure Farke would have preferred a player he could put in his team and maybe have kept his job, rather than one that might benefit his successor one sunny day

Watching Olise last night, it really does hit home what we could have got for the same money,