So, about our defending lately…

[Canary Jedi 609]

I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t recognise zonal marking if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord singing 'Zonal Marking Is Here Again!’ (Thank you Black Adder)

So, are we still doing it or another system? Either way we certainly seem to be defending better these last few games 👍

[Petriix 3,214]

Yes, we're still doing zonal marking (just like all the other top level teams). It isn't and never was the problem. We are defending much better at the expense of stuffing everyone behind the ball and ceding possession much of the time. It does seem to be working. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

45 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said:

I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t recognise zonal marking if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord singing 'Zonal Marking Is Here Again!’ (Thank you Black Adder)

So, are we still doing it or another system? Either way we certainly seem to be defending better these last few games 👍

Zonal marking is only really a thing at corners (and occasional free kicks from out wide near the corner flag) -  people get so mixed up about it. We've been doing zonal marking at corners much, much better this season. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Thirsty Lizard

[Canary Jedi 609]

Thanks Thirsty. Ok so we are still doing zonal marking but mainly at set pieces. So what about other than set pieces, what are we doing better to defend?

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

5 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said:

Thanks Thirsty. Ok so we are still doing zonal marking but mainly at set pieces. So what about other than set pieces, what are we doing better to defend?

I think the return of Grant Hanley is a big thing - he's been excellent, both at doing his own job and leading the defence. Others have stepped up individually too - Gibson has been quietly effective, Williams is improving rapidly, Aarons has done his job well and Byram has come back in and looked a class act. 

In addition the midfield seems to have been better organised and to have pressed in a more dynamic and effective fashion and with Idah and Sargent playing up front we've had something to aim for with longer balls and a better chance of the ball sticking up front than when Teemu was playing up there on his own. 

[shefcanary 2,949]

5 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said:

Thanks Thirsty. Ok so we are still doing zonal marking but mainly at set pieces. So what about other than set pieces, what are we doing better to defend?

We are getting into a proper defensive shape more quickly, not going gung ho so often but getting the ball forward quicker to Idah to hold up rather than building through the thirds and getting caught out in possession, with better appreciation of what each player has to do to cover for his colleagues.  That is a coach who understands how to be defensive.

[Hairy Canary 751]

Personally I think it’s because we are getting it forward more quickly so the defenders job is much more straightforward. Get there first and get it away.

We look to get possession higher up the pitch by pressing high and winning the second ball rather than trying to play ourselves out. That’s why Idah is in the team more often and why the midfielders job is much more destructive than creative than it was under Farke. Much tougher to score against.

[king canary 8,749]

1 hour ago, Hairy Canary said:

We look to get possession higher up the pitch by pressing high and winning the second ball rather than trying to play ourselves out. That’s why Idah is in the team more often and why the midfielders job is much more destructive than creative than it was under Farke. Much tougher to score against.

This is key in my opinion.

Loved Farke but our defending was so passive under him- teams often made it to the halfway line before anyone on our side looked to really engage, which invited so much pressure on the midfield and defence. 

I always thought Gibson was a capable defender at this level but he looked like a pub player at times in our previous system.

[hogesar 10,750]

Still doing what we always done under Farke - Zonal Marking mixed with some man to man to combat specific aerial threats.

But in the main we defend as a team considerably better.

[Bovril 264]

In a word, we're much more 'pragmatic' under Smith, which you need to be in our current position. 

Should we ever get ourselves established into a Brighton-type position then we can bring back Farke and the more entertaining style. Unfortunately given the financial disparities and the quality of players that correlates with that, Farke wasn't suited to playing the uglier side of the game (sometimes referred to as s***housery) which you need to in a relegation fight. 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,259]

We wern't exactly entertaining under Farke this season were we? Nor for most of the second half of 19/20, this is much more exciting to watch for me, we create chances now and get the ball forward quickly and I much prefer watching this, at this level than I did watching us play it slowly around the back and sideways under Farke.

Plus as someone else noted we were always too passive without the ball under Farke and it was infuriating to watch at times. Any moments of good play that might have sparked joy were always overshadowed by the immense frustration at the view of us gently jogging back when we lost the ball, standing off teams and standing still, letting players run around us with the ball so the negatives always outweighed the positives in this league. 

The Championship is a different story of course and if we end up back there next season I have no doubt that it won't be as entertaining to watch under Smith as it was under Farke but if we have any aspirations at all of ever being competitive in this league we'll have to consign the possesion based philosophy to the past because we will never be able to afford or develop a team good enough to play it at this level. 

As a side note I wouldn't call Smith's football defensive, it's nothing like what we saw under Hughton, it's just more effective and realistic for the league we find ourselves in. We defend in numbers at times when we have to but so does almost every other team at this level, it's how football is played in this league now, frenetic periods of attack v defence with teams rushing back to defend and break forward in numbers, it's why you need athletic players to be competitive. I must admit I do get a bit annoyed when I hear fans call this style of football defensive, I get why it would appear that way compared to what we've seen under Farke but it isn't overly defensive at all and we still offer a threat. 

[shefcanary 2,949]

Leicester seem to have completely forgotten how to defend!  Can see them being dragged into the dogfight.  Now wouldn't that be something.

Edited February 6, 2022 by shefcanary

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

Its the attitude to defending that has changed. Its a team thing. Set pieces are something different.

[yellowrider120 916]

3 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

We wern't exactly entertaining under Farke this season were we? Nor for most of the second half of 19/20, this is much more exciting to watch for me, we create chances now and get the ball forward quickly and I much prefer watching this, at this level than I did watching us play it slowly around the back and sideways under Farke.

Plus as someone else noted we were always too passive without the ball under Farke and it was infuriating to watch at times. Any moments of good play that might have sparked joy were always overshadowed by the immense frustration at the view of us gently jogging back when we lost the ball, standing off teams and standing still, letting players run around us with the ball so the negatives always outweighed the positives in this league. 

The Championship is a different story of course and if we end up back there next season I have no doubt that it won't be as entertaining to watch under Smith as it was under Farke but if we have any aspirations at all of ever being competitive in this league we'll have to consign the possesion based philosophy to the past because we will never be able to afford or develop a team good enough to play it at this level. 

As a side note I wouldn't call Smith's football defensive, it's nothing like what we saw under Hughton, it's just more effective and realistic for the league we find ourselves in. We defend in numbers at times when we have to but so does almost every other team at this level, it's how football is played in this league now, frenetic periods of attack v defence with teams rushing back to defend and break forward in numbers, it's why you need athletic players to be competitive. I must admit I do get a bit annoyed when I hear fans call this style of football defensive, I get why it would appear that way compared to what we've seen under Farke but it isn't overly defensive at all and we still offer a threat. 

This is an excellent post and one of the best I've read for a long, long time. Farke's style of play was thrilling at times in those two great Championship winning seasons but wholly unsuited to lower level PL which he just could not adapt to (or was too stubborn to). Seriously annoying that The Owners + the puffed up Sporting Director refused to acknowledge this until severe damage had been done to our points tally, league position, goal difference and perception by those outside the corridors of 'Little Old Norwich'.  

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

17 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

This is an excellent post and one of the best I've read for a long, long time. Farke's style of play was thrilling at times in those two great Championship winning seasons but wholly unsuited to lower level PL which he just could not adapt to (or was too stubborn to). Seriously annoying that The Owners + the puffed up Sporting Director refused to acknowledge this until severe damage had been done to our points tally, league position, goal difference and perception by those outside the corridors of 'Little Old Norwich'.  

Its little things which are crucial such as if teams press us high, we put longer balls into the corners and between the lines just to make the opposition maybe not take us for granted. And our Cbs look far more comfortable playing it longer than having to pass it to each other endlessly.

[Haus 267]

Sometimes you just have to hoof it away in a dire situation.  We seem to do this more now rather than the risky passes. 

 

Means less self inflicted errors