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KiwiScot

Gilmour

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Sorry for starting another Gilmour thread, but I'm curious to know what the current thoughts on him are because I've seen many negative comments over the season, but recently ones naming him in potential lineups.

So are people thinking he's better than what we've got?

Edited by KiwiScot

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He is in some ways, but he doesn't fit what we really need, and he doesn't particularly link up that well with whom we've already got. He can pick a pass, but even Pirlo needed a Gattuso or similar player near him so he could focus on getting into spaces and causing havoc from deep.

Having Gilmour in the team is the equivalent of having a Formula 1 engine but we've got a BMW 3 series. Put the engine in that and it shakes stuff outta sync.

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46 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Sorry for starting another Gilmour thread, but I'm curious to know what the current thoughts on him are because I've seen many negative comments over the season, but recently ones naming him in potential lineups.

So are people thinking he's better than what we've got?

Gives the ball away too much is my main issue, then doesn't track back and just watches.

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37 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Having Gilmour in the team is the equivalent of having a Formula 1 engine but we've got a BMW 3 series. Put the engine in that and it shakes stuff outta sync.

I understand that the narrative (especially from the media) is that he's such a good player - but what is that really based on?

Prior to being here he only played a handful of games, in largely meaningless games for Chelsea or against luminaries such as Moldova and the Faroes for Scotland.

And it's fair to say we've seen nothing to suggest he's world-class in a Norwich shirt (which would be the Formula 1 analogy).

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He's devastating if opponents stand off him. Leitner was too. 

Conclusion- they won't stand off him in the Prem, instead every opponent is going to put some big hooligan on him with instructions to get in his face and stay there. 

He has the talent to make something magic happen however this is at the expense of the team losing the arm wrestle in midfield because he is so easy to negate. 

In a 4 or 5 man midfield it might be worth the risk but he cannot be better than 4th or 5th choice for the 6 or 8 in a 4231 and I'd prefer Idah in the 10 role.

So where does he fit in? I don't think he does.

His loan is a bit like Harry Kane's we were a bit Meh about Harry and the next season he tears it up. Hopefully Billy will do the same. 

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Hes a fantastic player with a big future ahead of him but he's a player who sadly just does not fit into our squad. One of our main weaknesses we have is a lack of height and strength. Sadly Gilmour has neither of those. 

 

I do feel that if you stuck him in a team full of superstars (such as his parent club chelsea) he would stand out much more but as it is he just does not fit our system. He's not an attacking midfielder and he sure isn't a defensive one either, and end of the day when you pair him up alongside other players who lack strength and height such as McLean for example it just does not work out and the midfield gets overrun.

 

However with Normann coming back I do feel that he and him may make a good pair together, and I hope we may get to see some of that tommorow. Unlike others I have not written him off, as I have said I do think he's a good player with a bright future ahead of him just as it is he does not really fit into our team and system.

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15 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

when you pair him up alongside other players who lack strength and height such as McLean for example it just does not work out and the midfield gets overrun.

McLean is about 6ft, decent in the air and wouldn't normally be classified as someone who "lacks strength" - in fact, his physicality is probably his biggest attribute in the PL

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59 minutes ago, kirku said:

I understand that the narrative (especially from the media) is that he's such a good player - but what is that really based on?

Prior to being here he only played a handful of games, in largely meaningless games for Chelsea or against luminaries such as Moldova and the Faroes for Scotland.

And it's fair to say we've seen nothing to suggest he's world-class in a Norwich shirt (which would be the Formula 1 analogy).

Exactly this. He may well end up being good enough, but to date, what has he shown to indicate that he is good (let alone good enough to be classed as a formula one engine)? Other than "people say he's good", I'm struggling to see evidence to suggest that he's decent, never mind good. Ever.

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3 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Exactly this. He may well end up being good enough, but to date, what has he shown to indicate that he is good (let alone good enough to be classed as a formula one engine)? Other than "people say he's good", I'm struggling to see evidence to suggest that he's decent, never mind good. Ever.

Er... man of the match in the Euro 2020 game between England and Scotland?

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17 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Er... man of the match in the Euro 2020 game between England and Scotland?

Yes but apart from that Wolfie........

Reminds me of Monty Python and "What have the Roman's given us...." . 

Edited by Greavsy
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44 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Hes a fantastic player with a big future ahead of him but he's a player who sadly just does not fit into our squad. One of our main weaknesses we have is a lack of height and strength. Sadly Gilmour has neither of those. 

 

I do feel that if you stuck him in a team full of superstars (such as his parent club chelsea) he would stand out much more but as it is he just does not fit our system. He's not an attacking midfielder and he sure isn't a defensive one either, and end of the day when you pair him up alongside other players who lack strength and height such as McLean for example it just does not work out and the midfield gets overrun.

 

However with Normann coming back I do feel that he and him may make a good pair together, and I hope we may get to see some of that tommorow. Unlike others I have not written him off, as I have said I do think he's a good player with a bright future ahead of him just as it is he does not really fit into our team and system.

Unlike others I have not written him off, as I have said I do think he's a good player with a bright future ahead of him just as it is he does not really fit into our team and system. Just now!!!

Now we have a few more people back this is when The Norwich run hopefully keeps going with more people for Smith to pick from. Team game. Not a one man game.

 

 

Back-to-back starts. Back-to-back Man of the Match awards. Life under Dean Smith has started brightly for Norwich and Billy Gilmour has provided the foundation.

The Scot's omission under Daniel Farke became a stick to beat the German with as his reign at Carrow Road approached its conclusion. It's very rare that a side widely tipped for relegation at the beginning of the season boast a talent like Gilmour, on loan from Chelsea until the summer, in their ranks. To overlook his qualities was head-scratching.

"When you have a player of that talent on loan, you want to get the best out of him," Dean Smith responded when he was quizzed about Gilmour's status at the club following his appointment. "We want to utilise the strengths he has. Billy will be very vital to staying up."

 

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1 hour ago, kirku said:

I understand that the narrative (especially from the media) is that he's such a good player - but what is that really based on?

Prior to being here he only played a handful of games, in largely meaningless games for Chelsea or against luminaries such as Moldova and the Faroes for Scotland.

And it's fair to say we've seen nothing to suggest he's world-class in a Norwich shirt (which would be the Formula 1 analogy).

Prior to being here he only played a handful of games, in largely meaningless games for Chelsea or against luminaries such as Moldova and the Faroes for Scotland. 

meaningless 

Everton. Liverpool. England. Krasnador

Then two for Norwich?

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35 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Er... man of the match in the Euro 2020 game between England and Scotland?

Why did he get Man of the match? I didn't see him play particularly well. Lee Dixon spent the entire first half slating him and saying he should be subbed.

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59 minutes ago, kirku said:

McLean is about 6ft, decent in the air and wouldn't normally be classified as someone who "lacks strength" - in fact, his physicality is probably his biggest attribute in the PL

Kirku it's nice to see you championing big Kenny. But he seems to be slated on this forum by a lot of posters . For me Kenny can still do a job for Norwich along with many more in the squad as I say its a team game. And Smith knows that. And the reality is we will win more games and all will be good. Then we loose some and then as usual individuals are slated on here. Support for the team is sometimes very fickle on here. Palace next after Wolves is massive . Support your team and the players in it and trust in Deanos judgement. It's not an exact science football never has been never will be unless we replace players with Robots .

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1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

Er... man of the match in the Euro 2020 game between England and Scotland?

Was trusted to play the whole of the Champions league final too.

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1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Hes a fantastic player with a big future ahead of him but he's a player who sadly just does not fit into our squad. One of our main weaknesses we have is a lack of height and strength. Sadly Gilmour has neither of those. 

 

I do feel that if you stuck him in a team full of superstars (such as his parent club chelsea) he would stand out much more but as it is he just does not fit our system. He's not an attacking midfielder and he sure isn't a defensive one either, and end of the day when you pair him up alongside other players who lack strength and height such as McLean for example it just does not work out and the midfield gets overrun.

 

However with Normann coming back I do feel that he and him may make a good pair together, and I hope we may get to see some of that tommorow. Unlike others I have not written him off, as I have said I do think he's a good player with a bright future ahead of him just as it is he does not really fit into our team and system.

McLean is definitely taller and bigger generally than Normann. The obssession with height and strength on this board is weird... Man City and Liverpool are two of the smallest teams out there.

And I'm not sure Gilmour doesnt fit our system. He just hasnt played well for us so far but that happens with youngsters - it's probably why he's here. Don't write him off for us just yet.

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24 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

McLean is definitely taller and bigger generally than Normann. The obssession with height and strength on this board is weird... Man City and Liverpool are two of the smallest teams out there.

And I'm not sure Gilmour doesnt fit our system. He just hasnt played well for us so far but that happens with youngsters - it's probably why he's here. Don't write him off for us just yet.

Height, strength and pace don't matter when players are of a certain quality in their respective leagues, City and Liverpool are good enough to pass around teams full of athletes who press them all over the park, we are not. 

The obsession with physicality I'd say comes more from the recruitment teams at the bottom 14 or so + West Ham of this league, not our fanbase, but we as fans have witnessed first hand how effective pace and strength can be against a relatively small, slow side like ours in our last 2 PL campaigns as we are not good enough and never will be able to afford to be technically good enough to impose our passing game on physical teams who will either press us or sit back and hit us on the counter.

We've just been taught some harsh lessons and reality has set in for most on here that we need better athletes to be competitive in this league because that's just what the PL is now. 

Gilmour is also for me not good enough to compensate for his physical and athletic weaknesses, he might be one day, but right now for me he's nowhere near it. It reads on here and from media outlets sometimes like he's a player who is playing killer balls every game despite being a weak link off the ball, but I haven't seen anything like that, he's just looked like a slightly poorer version of Rupp to me

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11 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

McLean is definitely taller and bigger generally than Normann. The obssession with height and strength on this board is weird... Man City and Liverpool are two of the smallest teams out there.

Neither are beasts but I'd imagine the pair of them will be in our central midfield in the not too distant future. Along with Gilmour in games where we won't want to use 2 up top.

Height and strength (an work rate) matters in the middle of the park, especially in smaller teams. I'd guess that Rodri, De Bruyne, Fabinho and Henderson are all 6 foot plus and you know they're all good atheletes. Normann is the closest we have to that.

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4 hours ago, kirku said:

I understand that the narrative (especially from the media) is that he's such a good player - but what is that really based on?

Prior to being here he only played a handful of games, in largely meaningless games for Chelsea or against luminaries such as Moldova and the Faroes for Scotland.

And it's fair to say we've seen nothing to suggest he's world-class in a Norwich shirt (which would be the Formula 1 analogy).

He's not produced much that hints at class in a Norwich shirt simply as his strengths are the kind of things that help competitive teams set themselves apart rather than give class to relegation-haunted ones. Whilst he's very decent indeed at finding space considering his youth, it's particularly hard to do in a team that's vulnerable at this level like ours so he's easily squeezed out of games when playing for us - either in terms of even less space to get the ball and also having to spend more time actually trying to get the ball, which is his weaker suit.

An ineffective deep-lying playmaker is always going to look bad simply as his lower position puts pressure on his ostensibly weaker suit if his team aren't in possession much, which was the problem we had. We couldn't make the ball stick up top, so the midfield was forever pulled out of shape, and he was exposed far more often than not.

If we got ten yards further up the pitch, held the ball up far better, and most pertinently, had an out-and-out ball winner next to him, I think he'll turn a lot of doubters around. I'm just not sure we've quite got enough about ourselves to consistently do that at this rarefied level as I type right now.

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If it were the early noughties and everybody was still playing 4-4-2 we'd all love him and be declaring him the new Ian Crook.

But its 2022, and I think he's just too weak and feeble to make it in the Premier League even as a deep lying playmaker, Crook would have been too. I suppose he may still fill out a bit or could still bulk out, can't see it myself though he's tiny.

And we can't really afford to have a centre midfielder who can't track back and defend, its like we've identified this weakness in Vrancic, and still decided to bring in a player with the exact same flaw. 

Was always an odd signing for a team which can't expect to see a lot of possession. Got no doubt he's a good player, not as good as Scotland fans are making out though. I know Scotland are desperate to find their Gareth Bale or their Robbie Keane after decades of being sh*t but for me this special player still eludes Scotland. They finally churn out a few top quality players and they are all full backs.

 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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3 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

Er... man of the match in the Euro 2020 game between England and Scotland?

How does that make him world-class? An MOTM performance in an admittedly highly charged yet really quite turgid match

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3 hours ago, Mengo said:

Prior to being here he only played a handful of games, in largely meaningless games for Chelsea or against luminaries such as Moldova and the Faroes for Scotland. 

meaningless 

Everton. Liverpool. England. Krasnador

Then two for Norwich?

Sorry, I honestly don't know what this means

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2 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

Was trusted to play the whole of the Champions league final too.

Gilmour played exactly zero minutes in the CL final.

He played one group game against Farke's new club (Krasnodar) and then a 5 minute cameo against Sevilla.

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35 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

He's not produced much that hints at class in a Norwich shirt simply as his strengths are the kind of things that help competitive teams set themselves apart rather than give class to relegation-haunted ones. 

I don't disagree with any of your post (reduced for brevity) but if he were the proverbial "F1 engine in a 3 series" he'd have far more impact and we'd have seen flashes of all that "horsepower" by now..

Which isn't to say it won't come in the future, but I've seen nothing to suggest it's going to come any time soon

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22 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

If it were the early noughties and everybody was still playing 4-4-2 we'd all love him and be declaring him the new Ian Crook.

But its 2022, and I think he's just too weak and feeble to make it in the Premier League even as a deep lying playmaker, Crook would have been too. I suppose he may still fill out a bit or could still bulk out, can't see it myself though he's tiny.

And we can't really afford to have a centre midfielder who can't track back and defend, its like we've identified this weakness in Vrancic, and still decided to bring in a player with the exact same flaw. 

Was always an odd signing for a team which can't expect to see a lot of possession. Got no doubt he's a good player, not as good as Scotland fans are making out though. I know Scotland are desperate to find their Gareth Bale or their Robbie Keane after decades of being sh*t but for me this special player still eludes Scotland. They finally churn out a few top quality players and they are all full backs.

 

And not so big either. But very good Robertson and Tierney TVB. I'm English by the way. 

But I will always champion the underdog. Hence Norwich City.

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14 minutes ago, kirku said:

Sorry, I honestly don't know what this means

 

15 minutes ago, kirku said:

Sorry, I honestly don't know what this means

Apologies Kirku . I missed a line out. These were the games that he won man of the Match awards. 

hopefully he can still help for Norwich and next season he will be playing for Everton either a loan or a permanent  signing.

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4 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Yes but apart from that Wolfie........

Reminds me of Monty Python and "What have the Roman's given us...." . 

Well it reminded me of the time Robbie Savage claimed to have been world class for one game, in a studio with some actual world class players.

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12 minutes ago, Mengo said:

And not so big either. But very good Robertson and Tierney TVB. I'm English by the way. 

But I will always champion the underdog. Hence Norwich City.

Hickey is also every good.

Scotland wait years for some proper talents and when they get a few..... they are all left backs.

Got to laugh really 

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2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Hickey is also every good.

Scotland wait years for some proper talents and when they get a few..... they are all left backs.

Got to laugh really 

🤣forgot about Patterson right back. Now with Everton. Big Frank will start playing him soon. Dare I say it came through the ranks at rangers academy with his pal BG.

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2 minutes ago, Mengo said:

 

Apologies Kirku . I missed a line out. These were the games that he won man of the Match awards. 

hopefully he can still help for Norwich and next season he will be playing for Everton either a loan or a permanent  signing

👍

Let's hope so. 

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