Jump to content

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

But it didn't. It went in the goal.

Instinctive, fast reactions to reach the ball going behind him - and control to achieve the desire result. Don't think those kinds of goals are any the less value for that. The less time a player has to react, the harder the skill is.

It's not skill though. Skill implies craft, intent. This was a reflex, by definition a no-brainer. To imply that this was an intentional, thought out piece of skill is embarrassing.

All he did was what anyone in his position would hope to do, throw out a leg and hope for the best. That it looped in was one of a million outcomes. Luck, nothing more.

Idah had one good game and we overreacted and started talking like he had finally arrived. Now we're doing the same with Josh.

Its great to have something to feel positive about but pretending that Sargent and Idah are world-beaters now is just silly

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

The American perspective

????

Why would anyone put that video up there on this day? He's a young man, he's just scored two goals and is on a high. He isn't even playing as a striker or even a false 9, yet the diatribe of negativity on this video is already ancient history.

The boy has arrived, he has added goals to his hard work. Time to put the negativity away.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, The Great Mass Debater said:

It's not skill though. Skill implies craft, intent. This was a reflex, by definition a no-brainer. To imply that this was an intentional, thought out piece of skill is embarrassing.

All he did was what anyone in his position would hope to do, throw out a leg and hope for the best. That it looped in was one of a million outcomes. Luck, nothing more.

Idah had one good game and we overreacted and started talking like he had finally arrived. Now we're doing the same with Josh.

Its great to have something to feel positive about but pretending that Sargent and Idah are world-beaters now is just silly

Luck?  Luck?  It's like a half volley winner in tennis, requires great skill and speed to execute and brings a gasp of admiration for anyone that pulls it off. Not really sure why you're being so negative about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

The boy has arrived

 

The boy has not arrived. The boy has had one good game. He's had far more terrible games. Idah was pretty anonymous last night, yet the overreaction to his decent game against Everton is what we're doing now. My only point is that making out this goal was intentional and that Josh Sargent is suddenly a brilliant player is silly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

The boy has not arrived. The boy has had one good game. He's had far more terrible games. Idah was pretty anonymous last night, yet the overreaction to his decent game against Everton is what we're doing now. My only point is that making out this goal was intentional and that Josh Sargent is suddenly a brilliant player is silly.

Yes, he has, as has Idah. Both of them have now set the standard that they know they are capable of. They've done it and that cannot be taken away from them.  As for Sargent having "far more terrible games" I would dispute that. He has had several games where he has made good contributions and made all the difference when he came on against Southampton.

Idah was not anonymous last night either, he got through a lot of hard work on and off the ball.

These are breakthrough moments for these two players in the last two games - they now both know they have the ability to produce the goods - and that will help cement their belief in themselves. The skill will be re-producing that week in week out and that will take time as young players, but make no mistake, they have arrived. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it was intentional. But I agree it wasnt a "worldie". If anything his second goal was much more impressive. Such a cool towering header

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, shruk4 said:

I think it was intentional. But I agree it wasnt a "worldie". If anything his second goal was much more impressive. Such a cool towering header

Which he was happy to have a go at because his confidence was high. It only takes some self belief to help turn the corner. Not there quite yet but he is hopefully on his way now

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

It's not skill though. Skill implies craft, intent. This was a reflex, by definition a no-brainer. To imply that this was an intentional, thought out piece of skill is embarrassing.

All he did was what anyone in his position would hope to do, throw out a leg and hope for the best. That it looped in was one of a million outcomes. Luck, nothing more.

Couldn't agree less. The athleticism, timing, and execution were all extremely skillful. He probably had a <1% chance of scoring from that position, and whilst instinctive, it was a tremendous finish.

You can argue it was fortunate everything fell perfectly into place, but I genuinely don't understand the element of our support who constantly want to **** on our players; suggesting there was no skill involved in Sarge's first is just another example of this.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, it suggests that the way to get the best out of Sargent, especially in the opposing penalty area, is to switch off his brain. All those embarrassing bloops since he arrived have happened when he had plenty of time to think. Yesterday, when he didn't, he pulls off something very few players could do. IMO, the shot was intended (if 'instinct' can ever be intended). Look at his eyes as soon as he has made the contact - he knew where that ball was going.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most importantly, is what that 1st goal meant to the club, and to Sargent also - the belief "we can do this". I've seen it time and time again, and still a part of me finds hard to believe it. Then his 2nd goal. BRO. Josh Sargent re-born.

Like a great man said before, "from doubters to believers."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was great adjustment and improvisation. I actually don't think it was meant for him, I think Pukki (who IMO had a poorish game overall) was picking out Rashica. Actually enjoyed the 2nd goal just as much, nice move, great cross and well timed leap and header, very stylish. But Josh's workrate both up and down the pitch and his endeavour carved out those goals, fully deserved

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Herman said:

This angle shows it wasn't a flukey as some think, including myself.

 

Great goal . And nearly got it all right. Just the timing😇🤗

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

It's not skill though. Skill implies craft, intent. This was a reflex, by definition a no-brainer. To imply that this was an intentional, thought out piece of skill is embarrassing.

All he did was what anyone in his position would hope to do, throw out a leg and hope for the best. That it looped in was one of a million outcomes. Luck, nothing more.

Surely if it's not skill, what anyone in his position would hope to do and nothing more than luck, then you believe you could do it as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I said at the time it was some finish and that angle backs it up.

No doubt had it gone over the bar the usual suspects would have been saying how useless he was and that he couldn't hit a barn door.

He scored two excellently taken goals last night and hopefully many more to come.

Edited by Capt. Pants
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's had one good game???

Seriously???

I don't think he's had one bad game. Just some bad moments that he's been judged on.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

He's had one good game???

Seriously???

I don't think he's had one bad game. Just some bad moments that he's been judged on.

In a season that's often produced abject displays, both individual and as a team, Sargent has consistently been one of the better performers - even if it's largely been based on desire and work rate rather than moments of technical quality.

But you can't teach what Sargent has, we only need to look at the Cantwell situation for evidence of that, and last night's performance and plaudits were richly deserved for a player who never let his head drop.

Good on him, and I hope this is the platform for him to build a successful career at the club on.

Edited by kirku
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

I will say though.. I'm not sure why Sargent gets himself ahead of the ball like that, the timing of the run isn't great! 

But again, fantastic goal 🙃

To be fair, there was another player behind him - we had men in the box at pace. Sargent deserves come credit for that - he's bust a gut to get in there (as ever).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I nicked this from Michael Bailey - you can see why Sargent went ahead of Pukki's pass I think. He was expecting the ball along the ground following the dotted line

 image.png.9d8e26ca6162111aa6b770f731a4deff.png

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Chichcan said:

I nicked this from Michael Bailey - you can see why Sargent went ahead of Pukki's pass I think. He was expecting the ball along the ground following the dotted line

 image.png.9d8e26ca6162111aa6b770f731a4deff.png

I think you're right. But would've been the wrong option, Foster likely deals with it. Intelligent from Pukki, both on a slightly different wavelength. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not with the OP at all on this - bar perhaps calling it a worldie.

Where the crux is for me, is describing something "instinctive" as "unintentional". This might be the case of you or eye if we were to swat at an annoying fly instinctively and swat it first time, to the ground.

In footy, if you just fling something at it, typically it is entirely uncontrolled. He is certainly going for goal there, of that there is no doubt. So it is intentional. There is a lot of chance about the connection, because of it being relatively unsighted and the movement to adjust to the flight of the ball behind him.

It is a brilliantly taken goal. Perhaps not a worldie as those types of goals tend to be reserved for great looking finishes. As others have said, doesn't look as clean as Giroud's so in terms of that, will never really hold that title.

When all is said and done, the pressure on this game, and on those forward players to come up with the goods was immense, so to find a finish like that, in a game where we had spent large spells under the kosh, takes some real doing. Take absolutely nothing away from it, because we shouldn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Agree with you, it was completely instinctive and could have gone anywhere.  Still, a good finish but no way that degree of touch was possible intentionally at the speed he and the ball were moving.   The skill was more how he adapted his body.   Fair play, he deserved that.   

Professional footballers doing something on instinct is what makes them professional, it was utter quality and completely deliberate at high speed. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly do think it’s a worldie , there are plenty of players on that pitch who wouldn’t have scored it.

To be fair, I think that’s the most skilful play I have seen from Sargent. The timing, meeting the ball well with the correct part of the foot from such an unusual leg position, directing the ball with power in the correct direction - all of that in an instant?

It’s a brilliant goal, and that it’s instinctive doesn’t take away from the ability he needs to have to execute it properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Great angle, glad VAR didn't have it though. Makes Pukki's 'challenge' look more of a foul, don't you think? 

Fantastic goal. 

It was just a gentle nudge to help an already falling man.😉

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a 'lucky' goal in the same way there's a "lucky punch" in boxing. In other words, he fully intended to send it towards goal and score. Might not necessarily have had full control of everything when he hit it, but he definitely intended it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lmao, so I just spent 5 minutes recreating Sergents goal in my living room with one of my sons plastic mini footballs.

That will teach my wife for saying "Whats a scorpion kick, no i dont want to watch a video online of it, its too late and i want to go to bed."

For the record i hit the ball so crisply it almost knocked over a photo frame of the inlaws. 

 

 

Also in regard to it being a worldy, try hitting one like that in a game. Its pure instinct and as said above, even if lucky he intended to score.
It would hit the highlight reel for any top name so in my eyes, yeah world class goal given the circumstances.

Edited by Nexus_Canary
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Professional footballers doing something on instinct is what makes them professional, it was utter quality and completely deliberate at high speed. 

Have you ever even kicked a football?   What utter tosh!   The chances of that being completely deliberate are literally nil!    Fair play to him, he did brilliantly to adjust and get some cushion on it but your statement suggests that all professional footballers are that 'brilliant', that technically gifted and of course they aren't, some are much more skillful than others.    Of course no don't you'll be complaining about them over the next few weeks as you have done plenty of times before. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...