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TeemuVanBasten

That Idah performance has me questioning everything...

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Like, if Idah is that good, then maybe there's a lot more to come from other players, when Webber said we're good enough and he believes in our players, what if we actually are good enough?

If Idah can be this good after looking so terrible against Liverpool, maybe we really can see the best of Cantwell again this season.

And although the bulk of the praise does have to be directed to Idah for turning his form around, do we have to acknowledge that it is Dean Smith who has got him playing the game this way, and that it was Farke who failed to get a tune out of him? Or could this 'arrival' have occurred under Farke, who always seemed reluctant to have Idah and Pukki on the pitch together at the same time?

Who else can go up a gear (or rather, two gears) under Dean Smith? And can they do it quick enough to radically change our season? 

Were we that good in part because Kenny McLean wasn't on the pitch, or would we have been just as good with him on it? Surely a question that Smith may be asking himself now, although I do recall McLean losing his place in the side under Farke and then coming back in looking much more influential. 

Was Dean Smith as dumbfounded by that performance as he looked, did he actually believe that we could play that well, or was he shocked like the fans?

Plus a thousand other questions. I question everything that I've previously believed. Were Everton  just really really rubbish, or were we also really good? 

I'm sure I'm not alone in having to take all this in and process that game yesterday, it feels a bit weird. We were actually good, and despite that not being our first win of the season, it probably is the first time we've actually looked like a decent side, like convincing winners and that confident in victory?

 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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From someone who is usually critical of City TVB raises some good points in questioning himself. I doubt he's the only one.

Everton certainly weren't great but I think we deserve praise for a really solid 90 mins. I too didn't think there was a performance like that in Idah. Many of us, including me, were thinking it would do him good to be shipped out to a lower division club now find themselves thinking we need him in there every game.

Sargent too had a really decent game as did all the others and it wouldn't it be lovely if we can now get up a head of steam and make a go of the rest of the season.

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Jesus wept. 

One dodgy win and the pinkun geniuses are flipping from black to white. 

There's nothing to question. 

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2 minutes ago, fredherring said:

Jesus wept. 

One dodgy win and the pinkun geniuses are flipping from black to white. 

There's nothing to question. 

Jesus wept uncle freds at it again!

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Farke was a moron here this year. He had no structure was trying to be cute with his formations, he set no ground for the players to grow from, everyone looked lost out there. He ****ing through Tzolis under the bus when Tzolis was playing really well. 
yeah man i always thought this team was actually better because you always saw the talent. There’s a good amount of raw talent on the team. Since Smith started managing you could already see the  diference in culture on team. Idah does look like he finally belongs here... 

the management waited too long to fire Farke imo

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Maybe Idah is just improving with more game time, was never going to develop with 5 minutes here and there,

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6 minutes ago, fredherring said:

Jesus wept. 

One dodgy win and the pinkun geniuses are flipping from black to white. 

There's nothing to question. 

Head? Wobble? 

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2 minutes ago, OnDaBall said:

Maybe Idah is just improving with more game time, was never going to develop with 5 minutes here and there,

I think this is probably the best explanation for it. Farke's tendancy for 80th minute subs didn't do any of our fringe players any favours. It's not surprising that players like Idah weren't developing. 

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29 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

From someone who is usually critical of City TVB raises some good points in questioning himself

Usually critical of city in what sense?

I am frequently praising individual players, started a thread praising Brandon Williams the other day, and have yet to criticise Dean Smith.

I'm highly critical of Todd Cantwell's failure to make an impact, of Stuart Webber's recent transfer business, the reluctance of the owners to sell the club before they peg it, and of Farke's naivety prior to his dismissal (although always caveated it by mentioning his lack of weapons). Oh and Ben Kensell, he was a muppet. 

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31 minutes ago, fredherring said:

Jesus wept. 

One dodgy win

We were clearly by far the better team. 

Your point would have had some validity (yeah footy fans are fickle) if you'd not declared the win dodgy, we dominated Everton. 

 

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Our midfield just don’t contribute with goals. To have any chance Teemu and Adam will have to get around 20 between them before them by the end of the season. Confidence must try high now for the latter but consistency is key week in week out to have a small chance of survival. 

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We now have a more experienced management team who are used to getting the best out of player. Yesterday was a fearless display, and that’s down to man management. It WAS a must win game, but that wasn’t the message to the players. Newcastle bottled it 1-0 up, we kept the pressure on and kept 3 points. I think there is some hope now.🤞

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Too many have become institutionalized and blinded with McLean , thinking that he's a permanent fixture and he's the best we have

Its only when he isnt there that we see how restricted we've been in that department when he's there and that other players can bring better attributes into the team .

We dont have to be putting up with McLean , there are far better players outside the club we could be bringing in that would be an improvement and better players even already hrte at the club

I would say that a trio of Normann-Sorenson-Lees Melou are better than Gilmour-McLean-Rupp

 

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One thing that Farke will always be remembered for was his substitutions. He rarely made any until there were less than 20 minutes left, usually 10. As a result of this Idah got very little game time with Pukki playing the lone striker and various other players playing the no. 10 role. Although I do believe that Idah only got his starting place in the first team due to injuries, I think this could be a massive chance for him to develop his skills and become first choice next season.

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43 minutes ago, Tzol Machine said:

Farke was a moron here this year. He had no structure was trying to be cute with his formations, he set no ground for the players to grow from, everyone looked lost out there. He ****ing through Tzolis under the bus when Tzolis was playing really well. 
yeah man i always thought this team was actually better because you always saw the talent. There’s a good amount of raw talent on the team. Since Smith started managing you could already see the  diference in culture on team. Idah does look like he finally belongs here... 

the management waited too long to fire Farke imo

I thought it was really odd of Farke to be critical of Giannoulis following the Man City game and the banish him from the starting XI.

Yes he was torn apart, but he could have more constructive in what he said in public and it was against one of the best teams in the world, he also had next to no help in that game from the left winger, was left exposed.

That did actually make me wonder whether Farke had to shoulder his share of the blame for any Cantwell fall out, and I said that Farke getting sacked would at least allow Cantwell's slate to be wiped clean. Unfortunately Cantwell has completely failed to take his fresh chance under Dean Smith, but it still makes me wonder whether Farke could have handled things with Cantwell a bit better too.

Then the reaction to Tsoliz stealing that penalty was way over the top. He's just a kid, £2000 fine and ask that he apologises to team mates before the next training session, leave it at that. One thing that I felt that Paul Lambert always got right was that any frustrations he had with players or tension in the squad was always to remain behind closed doors, never to be aired in public. I always felt it was well out of order to slag these players off in the press for relatively minor things, not sure whether this is something more common in Germany or whether Farke just developed a bit of an ego, Giannoulis had gone from the Championship to playing Liverpool and Man City and Tsoliz is a teenager.

I don't think we can have any regrets about Farke leaving when he did, it was time and for whatever reason he'd struggled with the squad dynamics this season. 

I still think Cantwell has risked messing up his career and is a fool on social media, and admittedly I won't be gutted if he left in this window to finance a Smith signing (but likewise, would be happy enough for him to just get himself mentally and physically up for playing for us), but it should be noted that Smith doesn't consider him enough of a challenge or disruption to have to remove him from the core group day-to-day. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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5 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Too many have become institutionalized and blinded with McLean , thinking that he's a permanent fixture and he's the best we have

Its only when he isnt there that we see how restricted we've been in that department when he's there and that other players can bring better attributes into the team .

We dont have to be putting up with McLean , there are far better players outside the club we could be bringing in that would be an improvement and better players even already hrte at the club

I would say that a trio of Normann-Sorenson-Lees Melou are better than Gilmour-McLean-Rupp

You say that but Farke declared him our most complete midfielder didn't he.

I should imagine Smith would love a centre midfielder or two.

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2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

You say that but Farke declared him our most complete midfielder didn't he.

I should imagine Smith would love a centre midfielder or two.

...well Farke was sacked...and a failure to upgrade McLean in the midfield dept for this premier league campaign was a contributory factor

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1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...well Farke was sacked...and a failure to upgrade McLean in the midfield dept for this premier league campaign was a contributory factor

I wasn't disagreeing, just pointing out that it suggests Farke wasn't some sort of infallible football genius as a few would like us to think. 

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10 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Our midfield just don’t contribute with goals. To have any chance Teemu and Adam will have to get around 20 between them before them by the end of the season. Confidence must try high now for the latter but consistency is key week in week out to have a small chance of survival. 

I agree with this. I’m also tentative to having turned a corner. With Watford next we have a tendency to go missing in big games. 
 

I do see the potential in some of our new players but ultimately we didn’t buy enough for the here and now. The focus in summer was for development which was at odds with Webber’s commitment to “keep us in the Premier League”. 

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Very little in life or football is certain, and despite people seemingly wanting to declare us as down already and players x,y & z as not being good enough it really does pay to keep one's mind open and see where we are after 38 games. I'd suggest our chances of survival are slim but why not cling onto that and see where we end up? We need to replicate Saturday and how good we were in and around both penalty areas as that's been our downfall so far. 

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That Idah performance has me questioning everything...

 

Good, its about time . Your usual arrogance does you no favours.

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Its easy to be tempted to get overexcited after one good performance. We all woke up Sunday morning with high hopes.

We have a long way to go. Too many good sides still to play yet.

But I guess Idah is on cloud nine and looking forward to the next match. He has the attributes but I felt he might turn out to be a bit like Heskey and never fulfil the talent he had. 

Saturday's match took the load off Pukki so I am expecting him to come out guns blazing next match as he now has a partner and/or rival.

PLM looked better and Sorenson was his usual calm self. Maybe the longer ball we are using takes the heat off them somewhat.

Our full backs limped off though and that is a worry with Mumba out on loan.

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Totally didn’t see that performance from Idah coming. He’s a big, strong lad but always seemed to get brushed off the ball, unable to hold it up and with a pretty terrible first touch. Saturday he was superb and if he can keep this up we’ll see a lot of pressure fall off Teemu’s shoulders, which may result in improvement across the pitch. 

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14 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

do we have to acknowledge that it is Dean Smith who has got him playing the game this way, and that it was Farke who failed to get a tune out of him? Or could this 'arrival' have occurred under Farke, who always seemed reluctant to have Idah and Pukki on the pitch together at the same time?

One swallow doesnt make a summer. I think we are getting a bit carried away. Positivity is so much better than negativity and at last we have something to cheer. But Idah has only looked half decent, in a handful of games.

Secondly, I have seen absolutely nothing from this squad under Smith to make me think that Farke couldnt have achieved similar results

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I’m not sure that’s a fair assumption on Farke, we had a very successful system under Farke where Pukki was a very successful lone striker. I believe I’ve said on a number of threads the players we have are better than have shown and it’s been the senior pros who have been letting the youngsters down. Now one performance doesn’t turn them all into premiership players but it does instill a belief which then sets in motion confidence! Credit to Smith in playing a fluid front four with a decent two midfield performance, Sorensen discipline in holding and Lees for an outstanding game.

Fingers crossed for more of the same Friday, it’s was by far our best performance of the season, from back to front!

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I think we should all park the Idah talk for a couple more games . 

He has had a very poor run of form, for what ever the reasons and for that to change then he needs to show it over a period of times . not 1.5 games and 1 goal.

 

Fingers crossed for him , but lets wait and see.

 

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2 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

That Idah performance has me questioning everything...

Good, its about time . Your usual arrogance does you no favours.

It's not just TVB though, although I agree he is quicker to judge than most (and make a lot of it). So many people are quick to write off players, especisally younger ones, without giving them enough time. The club stuck with Idah, believed in him, Farke, Webber all valued him highly - and there must have been a reason for that - and in the last two games we have seen something click for him, a joy to see - like having a new player almost.  

We've seen loads of criticism for Sargent too. He was written off in some quarters, but has shown he has plenty to offer and once he gets a goal, which he will, we may see more of that side to him as well. 

Gilmour suffers from the hype that surrounds him and it is difficult to judge him, but people do.  Cantwell too of course, but something is not right there and he has a lot to do to bring supporters round to him. 

All in all, it's fair to criticise players if they are not performing as we think they should, but the way some people write them off is not pleasant or fair, especially if they are young. I had started to have doubts about Idah this season, but we could all see that if he used the strength and talent he obviously has to it's best advantage, we could see we have a player there - and in the last two games he has proved it to be so. 

Moral of story for TVB - don't be so quick to write people off!!

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I don’t think we were “that” good v Everton. On the balance of play you could argue a draw would have been a fair result.

but what there was was an intensity we’ve not seen in some other games, a level of comfort in terms of everyone’s role in the side, some very good defending, Idah looking a new player and some promising signs of players building some understanding.

I agree it makes you think we could still pull a rabbit out of the hat if it continues although I still think we need to find the resources to give Smith another centre midfield option. 

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We beat a poor side but the point is we did. Earlier on in the season we weren't doing that. 

We need to back that up now with a good performance at Watford. A long way to go but lots of positives to build on. A tough away game against a physical side coming up. 

It's a little bit soon to say we've turned the corner but hopefully we have.

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15 hours ago, fredherring said:

Jesus wept. 

One dodgy win and the pinkun geniuses are flipping from black to white. 

There's nothing to question. 

My sentiments also , when home Sat evening a little reflection on how poor Everton were and on a real dodgy run of 1 win in 13 , will know more come Friday night around 10pm ….. or possibly sooner we hope .

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