Cantwell rumours

[Uncle Fred 526]

The stick I took when I pointed out a couple of seasons ago that Cantwell was a wrongun was a disagrace, I have once again been proven correct

my record in calling it out is truly incredible 

[Pugin 601]

20 hours ago, ÅlandicCanary said:

LOL. This is a typical approach taken by let's say a certain type of person. The assumption that others are as crooked as oneself. 

No, TeemuVanBasten, I do not have any old login. Some times recent joiners to a forum are just that.

I've criticized Dowell for his performance against Arsenal. Not sure how that would constitute any double standards. He could've scored for us in that match had he only made an effort. Compare this fair criticism to the two examples above. I know you won't see any difference, so I'll detach myself from this pointless argument.

Top post @ÅlandicCanary. You remind me of Simon Lappin, speaking on Canary Call after the Arsenal game. After listening to a few crank calls, Lappin calmly and respectfully gave evidence of how misguided the callers were. But it seemed to make no difference. The crank callers / posters seem to be oblivious to logic and knowledge, and continue to push their disturbed agendas.

Never mind, it's their lives which are messed up. Those who know, know. Ignore the haters; please continue to contribute intelligently to this forum, even if most of what you sow falls on stoney ground. Have a Happy New Year. The Todd situation will sort itself out. Dean will either bring him back in or move him on and the haters will have to find a new target to pleasure themselves over.

FWIW, Dowell is well short of being a Premier player. Equally, Todd did himself no favours by looking so nonchalant while pre-match warm up. These things never go un-noticed.

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Pugin
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[Ward 3 371]

21 hours ago, Mr. Raumdeuter III said:

We’ve all heard a lot of rumour and innuendo surrounding Todd. 
He’s gone from “his time to shine” in a starring role in the NCFC cast and the potential to be our new creative talisman in the wake of the Buendia transfer to falling completely out of favour

He certainly looked up for the task early on, even having a spark of flair about his play, there was the sublime assist against Gillingham in preseason, and attempting to lob the Liverpool goalkeeper from 35 yards. Clearly a man who was, at the time, full of swagger and confidence. 
Then things turned sour. 
Here’s my take on what went wrong. 
 

In the 4-2-3-1 Cantwell was often deployed on the left, and inside NO.10, usually picking up the half-spaces, dropped deep to collect the ball from the CB, or No.6, like a deep playmaker. He was well suited to the Farkeball possession based game, that either birthed and coached Cantwell into the player he became or just suited his game to and allowed him to thrive. 
Off the ball, he dropped into LM, in a 4-4-1-1 block. And pressed well in the championship against lesser opposition. 
Then Farke switched to a 4-3-3 in preseason, then a 3-5-2.
Whilst there is no position for Todd in a 3-5-2, his role completely changed in the 4-3-3, and his role changed upon returning to the premier league, required to do a lot more off the ball. Whilst many other player evidently struggled Todd’s individual set of attributes hurt him the most. He played higher up the pitch, was required to play wider as the half-space was no the channel for one of the 2 no.8s, and this why Rupp, Lees-Melou had a lot of shots from just outside the box early on in the season.

Cantwell, the stylish inside No.10 was quelled. Gillingham assist, was just an assist against Gillingham. 

The new system was an enemy to a player like Todd in the premier league, where off the ball work in a team fighting relegation is more important to a manager than the individual on-the-ball talent. 

Cantwell became a luxury playmaker who Farke couldn’t afford to play in his team that needed to be as workman like, full of speed and quick direct ground passes up the pitch. He’s not a winger, and will never be. I trust you can understand the tactical difference? 
I personally think that’s where the disagreements, frustration and falling out came from. 
Farke antiquated one of his best players, and here me right- Todd had every chance to step up in his new role, and was given the chance to make the new wide left position his own. I think he failed or NCFC failed him. NCFC certainly failed the development and ultimately, the value of one of its key assets.
And if you apply all of my tactical analysis to Kieran Dowell, it makes sense why he doesn’t play very often too, yet he’s still involved. There’s no Dowell rumour and innuendo. 
And without being too demonising to  Todd personally, THAT is where “attitude” comes in. Why Dowell still plays and Cantwell doesn’t. 

 

I still don't get why we went from 4231 for a few seasons to 433 when we didn't really have the players for the style.

[Hoolahoop14 124]

18 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

The stick I took when I pointed out a couple of seasons ago that Cantwell was a wrongun was a disagrace, I have once again been proven correct

my record in calling it out is truly incredible 

Wasn’t a “disgrace” though was it? Just fans defending “one of their own” against what at the time seemed like completely unfair and baseless criticism.

 

If I’m honest I still don’t think he’s a “wrong’un” at all, he’s a good bloke at heart, he’s just been misguided (perhaps by social media, perhaps by other factors - agents, etc), has clearly had a difficult few months for a host of other reasons that none of us truly know about, and for me it doesn’t seem like his heart is in football at the minute. 
 

That’s not to say that I think he’s worth keeping hold of, because I don’t. If he can’t pull himself together and perform for us, why should we afford him more time than anyone else? I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but a loan move in January could do him (and us) a world of favours.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Hoolahoop14

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, Hoolahoop14 said:

Wasn’t a “disgrace” though was it? Just fans defending “one of their own” against what at the time seemed like completely unfair and baseless criticism.

 

If I’m honest I still don’t think he’s a “wrong’un” at all, he’s a good bloke at heart, he’s just been misguided (perhaps by social media, perhaps by other factors - agents, etc), has clearly had a difficult few months for a host of other reasons that none of us truly know about, and for me it doesn’t seem like his heart is in football at the minute. 

The best thing he can do is get away from Norfolk and get himself well.

It's been a privilege to see him play at his best, he still has huge potential and I'm sure many other clubs will see that.

[Naturalcynic 628]

7 minutes ago, Hoolahoop14 said:

If I’m honest I still don’t think he’s a “wrong’un” at all, he’s a good bloke at heart, he’s just been misguided (perhaps by social media, perhaps by other factors - agents, etc), has clearly had a difficult few months for a host of other reasons that none of us truly know about, and for me it doesn’t seem like his heart is in football at the minute. 
 

That’s not to say that I think he’s worth keeping hold of, because I don’t. If he can’t pull himself together and perform for us, why should we afford him more time than anyone else? I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but a loan move in January could do him (and us) a world of favours.

Regardless of the reasons behind his current situation, a club with very limited financial resources simply can't keep someone on the payroll if they're not prepared to do the job they're being paid for, particularly if their salary is at the £1 million per annum level that it's alleged to be.

[Hoolahoop14 124]

9 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Regardless of the reasons behind his current situation, a club with very limited financial resources simply can't keep someone on the payroll if they're not prepared to do the job they're being paid for, particularly if their salary is at the £1 million per annum level that it's alleged to be.

Absolutely, whilst it’ll be a shame for us to lose a homegrown player, it definitely seems to be in both our and Todd’s interest to move on, however I don’t see a permanent move coming in January in all honesty. I mean, we’re still going to want a fair few million for him given his past exploits, but no one is going to pay a fair few million for someone who has barely played all season and has question marks over their well-being/confidence. 
 

A loan move, where we get a hefty amount of wages paid for and even a loan fee, would be the best bet. Cantwell can move away from Norfolk for a few months, focus on getting back to his best, perhaps benefit from a different approach at a different club, could come back to us revitalised and ready for another promotion push next year, or will at least have added a few million onto his asking price for any PL clubs willing to take the plunge.

 

Worst case scenario with a loan is that none of the above happens and he plays just as he’s been playing for us this season - devoid of any confidence. At least this way we would know that the jig is up and we can cash in during the Summer.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Hoolahoop14

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

The hysteria of fans on here surrounding such a bang average player, continues to amaze me. 

 Some are unhealthy obsessed. 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

13 minutes ago, Hoolahoop14 said:

Absolutely, whilst it’ll be a shame for us to lose a homegrown player, it definitely seems to be in both our and Todd’s interest to move on, however I don’t see a permanent move coming in January in all honesty. I mean, we’re still going to want a fair few million for him given his past exploits, but no one is going to pay a fair few million for someone who has barely played all season and has question marks over their well-being/confidence. 
 

A loan move, where we get a hefty amount of wages paid for and even a loan fee, would be the best bet. Cantwell can move away from Norfolk for a few months, focus on getting back to his best, perhaps benefit from a different approach at a different club, could come back to us revitalised and ready for another promotion push next year, or will at least have added a few million onto his asking price for any PL clubs willing to take the plunge.

 

Worst case scenario with a loan is that none of the above happens and he plays just as he’s been playing for us this season - devoid of any confidence. At least this way we would know that the jig is up and we can cash in during the Summer.

 

 

Not sure I agree there. If we accept that the January window often results in inflated prices, the fact that Cantwell's only got 18 months left on his contract, and the fact Cantwell is also homegrown will also put something of a price premium on him, this window probably is the best time to sell him.

[lake district canary 4,531]

15 minutes ago, Hoolahoop14 said:

Absolutely, whilst it’ll be a shame for us to lose a homegrown player, it definitely seems to be in both our and Todd’s interest to move on, however I don’t see a permanent move coming in January in all honesty. I mean, we’re still going to want a fair few million for him given his past exploits, but no one is going to pay a fair few million for someone who has barely played all season and has question marks over their well-being/confidence.

A loan move, where we get a hefty amount of wages paid for and even a loan fee, would be the best bet. Cantwell can move away from Norfolk for a few months, focus on getting back to his best, perhaps benefit from a different approach at a different club, could come back to us revitalised and ready for another promotion push next year, or will at least have added a few million onto his asking price for any PL clubs willing to take the plunge.

Worst case scenario with a loan is that none of the above happens and he plays just as he’s been playing for us this season - devoid of any confidence. At least this way we would know that the jig is up and we can cash in during the Summer.

Agree with some of this that a loan is the best option for him - but not just a loan, a loan with an option to buy him. A loan first so he can show what he can do - then to make it permanent if it goes well. I honestly think it would be better if he moved away to a different club permanently - for him and for us. As with Chris Martin, he needs to go to a new club for his career where he can be professional and not get caught up with all the emotional stuff and petty jealousy that surrounds him - where he can just be a footballer.  It isn't good to stay at your home club all your career anyway, very few players ever do. Move on, widen his horizons and be in an environment condusive to being the best he can be.

Edited December 31, 2021 by lake district canary

[Hoolahoop14 124]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Not sure I agree there. If we accept that the January window often results in inflated prices, the fact that Cantwell's only got 18 months left on his contract, and the fact Cantwell is also homegrown will also put something of a price premium on him, this window probably is the best time to sell him.

I get your point, and I do agree that in an ideal world we’d be selling him - but who would buy him right now? The loan option I mentioned is based primarily on the fact that no-one is going to pay us multi-millions to sign him based on current factors. The only side that I genuinely think could sign him is Newcastle, but why would they? A player like Cantwell is the last thing they need in their current situation. 

[Hoolahoop14 124]

8 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

The hysteria of fans on here surrounding such a bang average player, continues to amaze me. 

 Some are unhealthy obsessed. 

People that tell others they are “unhealthily obsessed” are almost always the ones who are unhealthily obsessed themselves.. the vast majority of posts in this thread show that the Cantwell haters/outers/whatever you want to call them are the ones who are obsessed. I’d wager a bet that they’re the same ones who were singing the Gilmour song at Palace.

 

Guessing your comment was meant as a comment towards posters like myself who are looking at the situation rationally, rather than just calling him every name under the sun.

[DraytonBoy 142]

When situations get as messy as this the best solution is a clean break for both the player and the club.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

****well??

We had some idiot on here last season resorting to this.

Agreed Pantso. There are quite a few people who are obsessed with running Todders down, what big men they are. Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.

No one knows for sure exactly what Todds issues are, but some have made their mind up and turned against a young fella who clearly isnt content, you could say the same for a lot of the sad sacks having a dig at him...... their output gives them away. 

Full of Pi$$ and vinegar they are.

 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

26 minutes ago, Hoolahoop14 said:

People that tell others they are “unhealthily obsessed” are almost always the ones who are unhealthily obsessed themselves.. the vast majority of posts in this thread show that the Cantwell haters/outers/whatever you want to call them are the ones who are obsessed. I’d wager a bet that they’re the same ones who were singing the Gilmour song at Palace.

 

Guessing your comment was meant as a comment towards posters like myself who are looking at the situation rationally, rather than just calling him every name under the sun.

No, no posters in particular. Just a general bafflement at the amount of 'debate' Cantwell generates. 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

33 minutes ago, Hoolahoop14 said:

I get your point, and I do agree that in an ideal world we’d be selling him - but who would buy him right now? The loan option I mentioned is based primarily on the fact that no-one is going to pay us multi-millions to sign him based on current factors. The only side that I genuinely think could sign him is Newcastle, but why would they? A player like Cantwell is the last thing they need in their current situation. 

See the point - but put it this way, how many times did we essentially buy fallen angels? By that I mean bought players who had spells of looking like they were excellent but lost their way somewhat. Leitner's an obvious example under Farke, and to a lesser extent Krul and Pukki were in the same boat. Dowell could be said to be similar as one at Everton who looked a baller but just didn't quite kick on.

Cantwell's a 24 y/o attacking midfielder who's had a good season in the Premier League, had England U21 honours, comes from a club/manager renowned for youth work, and has lost his way a bit. I agree the market for him is not huge, but it only needs one.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

The best thing he can do is get away from Norfolk and get himself well.

It's been a privilege to see him play at his best, he still has huge potential and I'm sure many other clubs will see that.

Good point Winko, Norwich are in danger of losing the previously popular image of being a 'good'  Club .  Slagging off our own players and those on loan to us is not a good look.

[rock bus 850]

9 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

See the point - but put it this way, how many times did we essentially buy fallen angels? By that I mean bought players who had spells of looking like they were excellent but lost their way somewhat. Leitner's an obvious example under Farke, and to a lesser extent Krul and Pukki were in the same boat. Dowell could be said to be similar as one at Everton who looked a baller but just didn't quite kick on.

Cantwell's a 24 y/o attacking midfielder who's had a good season in the Premier League, had England U21 honours, comes from a club/manager renowned for youth work, and has lost his way a bit. I agree the market for him is not huge, but it only needs one.

I think the problem here is that all the players you mention  that we bought we got exceptionally cheap or free. We’ll still be looking for a sizeable fee for Cantwell and I’m struggling to see what team will take that kind of risk on him, especially if they can get him for free in 12 months time

Edited December 31, 2021 by rock bus

[ÅlandicCanary 38]

2 hours ago, Pugin said:

Top post @ÅlandicCanary. You remind me of Simon Lappin, speaking on Canary Call after the Arsenal game. After listening to a few crank calls, Lappin calmly and respectfully gave evidence of how misguided the callers were. But it seemed to make no difference. The crank callers / posters seem to be oblivious to logic and knowledge, and continue to push their disturbed agendas.

Never mind, it's their lives which are messed up. Those who know, know. Ignore the haters; please continue to contribute intelligently to this forum, even if most of what you sow falls on stoney ground. Have a Happy New Year. The Todd situation will sort itself out. Dean will either bring him back in or move him on and the haters will have to find a new target to pleasure themselves over.

FWIW, Dowell is well short of being a Premier player. Equally, Todd did himself no favours by looking so nonchalant while pre-match warm up. These things never go un-noticed.

 

Thank you for the kind words @Pugin, much appreciated. 

Yup, the Todd situation will be sorted out sooner rather than later I think. Sell him, loan him out, play him... anything will be better than keeping this tiresome status quo going. I'm inclined to agree with the consensus here that a fresh start at a new club is probably what's best for him. We'll see what the near future holds in store.

Happy New Year 🎆 to you too and everyone else on here from a wintery Åland 🇦🇽, a tiny island in the middle of the sea with a population of around 30 000 where I am the only Norwich fan. 

OTBC!

[Nora's Ghost 157]

People who pay to watch Norwich home and away have every right to criticise players who aren't pulling their weight and Cantwell has outstayed his welcome.

 

It's all too easy to defend the indefensible while worrying their little heads about the 'club image' rather than what's going on, on the pitch.

[Commonsense 618]

1 minute ago, Nora's Ghost said:

People who pay to watch Norwich home and away have every right to criticise players who aren't pulling their weight and Cantwell has outstayed his welcome.

 

It's all too easy to defend the indefensible while worrying their little heads about the 'club image' rather than what's going on, on the pitch.

But how much of the criticism of him comes from people who pay to watch Norwich home and away, compared to the amount that comes from a few sad blokes with nothing better to do than type bile on their computers?

[East Rider 548]

6 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

But how much of the criticism of him comes from people who pay to watch Norwich home and away, compared to the amount that comes from a few sad blokes with nothing better to do than type bile on their computers?

Spot on. I would suspect that most of the 'on line' bile is from a number of sad sacks wo do not actively follow city. However, they and us unfortunately are put into the same bracket by the media. 

A bit like the very few who remonstrated against BG at palace. Whilst it was very few indeed the headlines do not reflect that. 

It's the way of the world. Unfortunately. 

 

 

 

[Nora's Ghost 157]

14 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

But how much of the criticism of him comes from people who pay to watch Norwich home and away, compared to the amount that comes from a few sad blokes with nothing better to do than type bile on their computers?

No one wished Todd to succeed more than me but we are a professional football club with paying customers not a charity for the wayward and confused. He has been given every chance in life to fulfil his dream, now it is someone else's turn to step up to the plate.

It's time to let go.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

28 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

But how much of the criticism of him comes from people who pay to watch Norwich home and away, compared to the amount that comes from a few sad blokes with nothing better to do than type bile on their computers?

Are you seriously asking this question just after our hardcore belted out a rendition of "f*ck off back to Chelsea" to Billy Gilmour?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

23 minutes ago, East Rider said:

Spot on. I would suspect that most of the 'on line' bile is from a number of sad sacks wo do not actively follow city. However, they and us unfortunately are put into the same bracket by the media. 

A bit like the very few who remonstrated against BG at palace. Whilst it was very few indeed the headlines do not reflect that. 

It's the way of the world. Unfortunately.

By the "few" at Palace you mean a few hundred, and those are from the hard-core!

Imagine slagging off the away support that spends hundreds and gives up an entire day to watch this dross at the minute, fancy that!

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

24 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

By the "few" at Palace you mean a few hundred, and those are from the hard-core!

Imagine slagging off the away support that spends hundreds and gives up an entire day to watch this dross at the minute, fancy that!

Everybody is frustrated, but there isn’t blame laying on one players shoulders. The central midfield is pathetic and has to aid our pathetic central defence. The blame doesn’t lie at Billy Gilmours door. It is at our rubbish and cheap recruitment strategy. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

30 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

By the "few" at Palace you mean a few hundred, and those are from the hard-core!

Imagine slagging off the away support that spends hundreds and gives up an entire day to watch this dross at the minute, fancy that!

Funny really. Those that are slagging off the slaggers. They might be doing it in a calm way but they are still arrogant enough to use words that are not as industrial as some of the away support. Do we call them lovers when they use the word haters against others? Or when they call others sad?

There is no wrong or right in this scenario. Provided there is nothing personal of course, you would expect polar opposite views about NCFC just as there is about brexit, Boris etc.

The only person correct is your own self because its your team, your passion. It is what you get out of supporting NCFC that is important, not what I get out of it. Some passion manifests itself in aggressive words while others is more reflective.

 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Coming to the end of his contract - though not technically as we will extend, but still a factor. Seemingly not fit and needing a lot of work to get there so cant see anyone thinking of buying him in January getting much from him this season. Seems to have a bad attitude. Did well for half a season 2 years ago, shown little since.

Honestly I dont think he has much value at all. Cant see many teams falling over themselves to buy him. He's the kind of player we'd be Leitner-ing if we didnt have this absurd idea he was worth mega-bucks.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Interesting selection of links when you google Cantwell Leeds

 

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/leeds-united-todd-cantwell-free-21899753

https://www.football365.com/news/leeds-plot-cut-price-deal-for-soon-to-be-out-of-contract-star

https://www.footballfancast.com/leeds-united-transfer-rumours/leeds-transfer-rumours-orta-right-to-snub-todd-cantwell

https://motleedsnews.com/news/mot-view-leeds-could-return-for-todd-cantwell-in-january-with-norwich-keen-to-sell/

https://www.teamtalk.com/leeds-united/whites-linked-norwich-todd-cantwell-move-free-despite-40m-valuation

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

That 4th link mentions a loan. Think that would be a good idea. He needs to get his fitness up and clearly doesnt want to be here. A fresh start could put him in the window, which he most definitely isnt here.