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A DISASTROUS mistake to sack Farke

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People saying its Dean Smiths fault after the amount of games he has had and the players he has inherited (which by the way Farke said were good enough) are another reason I dislike my club so much at the moment.

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Webber has done fine in my view. The parameters for player acquisition make it a relatively low chance of survival any Premier league season.

The yo yo approach is making the club stronger over time and more viable as a long term Premier league prospect as it continues ;this is undermined by the mentality that THIS is the season that we MUST survive. 

Farke was the scapegoat for a lot of fans. Now it seems Dean Smith isn't the answer, Weber is the problem. Just so tiresome. Let the players, manager and club focus on trying to turn it around without pointless histrionics, because if anything makes Norwich a laughing stock, it's that. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie
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I do find it bleakly amusing that Farke’s much-maligned messaging about “having no chance” in certain games is now basically being repurposed by many as a stick to beat Webber with. 
 

I actually wouldn’t be surprised at all if Farke knew exactly which buttons to press and was doing exactly that himself. 

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Talking again with a mate who again for the second time pointed out that we’ve never gone into battle without a game changer for many seasons, Huckerby, to Wes, Pritchard, Madders and Buendia…….he said that’s our real issue? another observation on Webber! His magic comes from singing Dortmund II coaches, both Huddersfield and here, and he said maybe we sacked Farke on the notion of signing the next bright coach in Enrica Maaben (someone I jokingly mentioned) but he’s very well thought of and wouldn’t be surprised if that was Webbers first choice, possibly once it was looked into the work permit might not have been available.

Though I appreciate Branston and we certainly aren’t helped by the injuries at present and we have in the past had issues with injuries to key players, but this has certainly been the worst performance in a season for a long time.

I like Smith as an individual and he comes across well, so I fully understand those who back him at present and I too would like to back him but he’s proved all my concerns thus far, we have very little fight, look lost and devoid of goals.

But maybe the real reason is Buendia was important than we realised at the time, he was the pivotal part of joining the ball from defence to creating the chances, we just don’t have this tool in our box anymore.

Edited by Indy
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8 minutes ago, Indy said:

Talking again with a mate who again for the second time pointed out that we’ve never gone into battle without a game changer for many seasons, Huckerby, to Wes, Pritchard, Madders and Buendia…….he said that’s our real issue? another observation on Webber! His magic comes from singing Dortmund II coaches, both Huddersfield and here, and he said maybe we sacked Farke on the notion of signing the next bright coach in Enrica Maaben (someone I jokingly mentioned) but he’s very well thought of and wouldn’t be surprised if that was Webbers first choice, possibly once it was looked into the work permit might not have been available.

Though I appreciate Branston and we certainly aren’t helped by the injuries at present and we have in the past had issues with injuries to key players, but this has certainly been the worst performance in a season for a long time.

I like Smith as an individual and he comes across well, so I fully understand those who back him at present and I too would like to back him but he’s proved all my concerns thus far, we have very little fight, look lost and devoid of goals.

But maybe the real reason is Buendia was important than we realised at the time, he was the pivotal part of joining the ball from defence to creating the chances, we just don’t have this tool in our box anymore.

Football is a low-scoring sport.

Weapons are everything.

Parma 

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1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The yo yo approach is making the club stronger over time and more viable as a long term Premier league prospect as it continues ;this is undermined by the mentality that THIS is the season that we MUST survive.

I guess we all really wanted to see this season as one to really give a good go at, but in retrospect that seems to have been the wrong approach. Webber and Farke both talked things up at the start of the season, but really the transfers in did not support that approach. Tzolis and Sargent - both ones to develop with only Rashica bought in to make an impact straight away - or as soon as he settled.  Lees Melou I'm not sure about.

Normann/Kabak/Williams/Gilmour are pointless loans imo - better to bring through youngsters - Mumba deserves a chance imo. Sorensen deserves more of a go than any loanee. Omobamidele should be in there more too, when fit. Just send them all back.

This season is beset with problems, time to recognise that we need to look to next season now, get rid of loanees, establish the Smith/Shaky way of playing (whatever that is) and forget the PL.  It's not really all that anyway......

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2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Webber has done fine in my view. The parameters for player acquisition make it a relatively low chance of survival any Premier league season.

The yo yo approach is making the club stronger over time and more viable as a long term Premier league prospect as it continues ;this is undermined by the mentality that THIS is the season that we MUST survive. 

Farke was the scapegoat for a lot of fans. Now it seems Dean Smith isn't the answer, Weber is the problem. Just so tiresome. Let the players, manager and club focus on trying to turn it around without pointless histrionics, because if anything makes Norwich a laughing stock, it's that. 

Where’s the evidence that we’re becoming stronger over time and what makes you think that we’re going to continue coming back up?    We could just as easily, if not more easily, go the other way.  It’s the complete waste of the multitude of opportunities since 2004 to re-establish ourselves as a Premier League club that is unforgivable.  We can blame all the managers we like, as after all they all have a best-before date, but ultimately it’s down to the “self-funding” business model as advocated by the majority shareholders. 

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12 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Where’s the evidence that we’re becoming stronger over time and what makes you think that we’re going to continue coming back up?    We could just as easily, if not more easily, go the other way.  It’s the complete waste of the multitude of opportunities since 2004 to re-establish ourselves as a Premier League club that is unforgivable.  We can blame all the managers we like, as after all they all have a best-before date, but ultimately it’s down to the “self-funding” business model as advocated by the majority shareholders. 

Are you kidding me? That's a joke of a question. 

One play off win and two championship titles in 6 seasons, with 50% of the 6 seasons in the Premier League is something many clubs would kill for as a record, regardless of how badly we do in the Premier League. 

We do so badly in the Premier League because there's a determination not to throw everything at a desperate chance in a highly competitive league and take the club back to the brink of collapse when it goes wrong. That's a healthy philosophy. 

Too many fans tackle it with the wrong attitude in my view. If you start from a perspective that we're underdogs anyway then it all becomes a lot more enjoyable. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie
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16 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Are you kidding me? That's a joke of a question. 

One play off win and two championship titles in 6 seasons, with 50% of the 6 seasons in the Premier League is something many clubs would kill for as a record, regardless of how badly we do in the Premier League. 

We do so badly in the Premier League because there's a determination not to throw everything at a desperate chance in a highly competitive league and take the club back to the brink of collapse when it goes wrong. That's a healthy philosophy. 

Was the arrival of D&M declared as Year Zero?  Don’t you remember finishing 5th, 4th, and 3rd in the top flight, playing in Europe, getting to two FA Cup semi-finals and winning the League Cup?  Yes, compared with the 1995-2004 period when we were stuck in the Championship we’ve done a bit better, but the self-imposed ceiling on our ambition is now stifling the Club and it’s obvious for all who wish to see that we are falling further and further behind in our ability to compete at Premier League, and probably soon Championship, level.  

Edited by Naturalcynic
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On 29/12/2021 at 09:32, Bradwell canary said:

I agree with most of your comments. The one who should have bit the dust is the one who signed the cheque for that complete load of rubbish in the summer window. Bet for sure it was not DF.

He clearly pointed the finger at Farke , perhaps he should have looked where the other fingers were pointed as well.

Did little old Brentford sell their best player?

Guess you are right about his ego. Can't ever say that about Daniel.

No, we sold two of them and then won promotion with the replacement. Maybe you should have sold Buendia a year earlier!

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On 29/12/2021 at 12:02, yellowrider120 said:

The only mistake in sacking Farke was that it should have been done MUCH SOONER than it was!

Agreed. Had it been done after the Chelsea humiliation we would have appointed someone else earlier and possibly had a better chance of avoiding relegation.

Farke isn't the only culprit here though and I think the fans will make that perfectly clear over the coming weeks.

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4 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Are you kidding me? That's a joke of a question. 

One play off win and two championship titles in 6 seasons, with 50% of the 6 seasons in the Premier League is something many clubs would kill for as a record, regardless of how badly we do in the Premier League. 

We do so badly in the Premier League because there's a determination not to throw everything at a desperate chance in a highly competitive league and take the club back to the brink of collapse when it goes wrong. That's a healthy philosophy. 

Too many fans tackle it with the wrong attitude in my view. If you start from a perspective that we're underdogs anyway then it all becomes a lot more enjoyable. 

I agree quite strongly with what you've said here.

However, it doesn't accord with the club's messaging. Tanks, bazooka's and grenades were apparently signed. It was clear that the higher-ups were marketing this season as one in which we had pushed the boat out and expected to give it a right good go at surviving. The Farke sacking itself evidenced that the club expected the squad assembled to compete to survive.

You can't really criticise fans for having an unrealistic set of ambitions for the club in the PL against a backdrop of such messaging.

I personally felt that it would be very difficult, once again, to survive. But I did expect us to compete a little more and do better than 21 points. The reality is that performances have actually been far worse than two years ago. We were naive and vulnerable defensively then, but we played good football, scored goals and gave most teams a proper game. There's been very little of that this season.

Edited by Beefy is a legend
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5 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Football is a low-scoring sport.

Weapons are everything.

Parma 

This is the issue for me. 

What would you rather have in that front three? Someone that puts in a 100% effort and a shift every game but ultimately creates or scores nothing, or someone who can be a bit anonymous, isn’t as good at tracking back but has the moments that create and score goals. 

Players that do both are few and far between and well out of our price range unless we grow them like Buendia.

We had two players who had that capability at this level to create and score goals (other than Pukki), we sold one and the other has gone completely off the boil. We now have no weapons, maybe Rashica when he’s fit again as he just started to look the part.

 

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I always said it wasn’t his fault. I also think he is a superior coach to Smith. However morale was so low because the players could see they couldn’t cut it- due to poor window and inadequate budget- that he has lost the dressing room. When that happens it’s always the end. A real shame- imagine what could have been with proper budget and backing 

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11 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I always said it wasn’t his fault. I also think he is a superior coach to Smith. However morale was so low because the players could see they couldn’t cut it- due to poor window and inadequate budget- that he has lost the dressing room. When that happens it’s always the end. A real shame- imagine what could have been with proper budget and backing 

I think people are looking at it too black and white. Either that it wasn’t Daniels fault or it is.

Its far more grey for me, I find it hard to argue he wasn’t at least part of the problem.

Take the transfer business for instance. He presumably had some involvement, types of players and positions for the tactics he wanted?

Either he was completely complicit in the window as he was heavily involved in the player decisions and for identifying requirements for his tactics, or he just took what he was given without challenge and publicly lauded our business. Or something in between. But he can’t be blameless just because he doesn’t do the business bit.

It was his tactics as well that saw us completely switch from our established formation.

Also it’s literally his job to motivate and manage the players.

Farke is not completely at fault for our current situation I think that’s clear, but pretending he’s blameless just doesn’t make any logical sense to me.

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You can guarantee the same wet blankets pining for the comfort blanket or farke are the same lefties screaming for more covid restrictions despite clear data they aren't warranted. 

Some people just have no balls. 

Edited by fredherring

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7 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The yo yo approach is making the club stronger over time and more viable as a long term Premier league prospect as it continues

I'm really not sure I see any evidence for this.

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5 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

Was the arrival of D&M declared as Year Zero?  Don’t you remember finishing 5th, 4th, and 3rd in the top flight, playing in Europe, getting to two FA Cup semi-finals and winning the League Cup?  Yes, compared with the 1995-2004 period when we were stuck in the Championship we’ve done a bit better, but the self-imposed ceiling on our ambition is now stifling the Club and it’s obvious for all who wish to see that we are falling further and further behind in our ability to compete at Premier League, and probably soon Championship, level.  

Tbh, this is becoming like Ipswich and their supporters. The days of which you speak should now be remembered from a historical perspective and not used as some present-day metric. The game of football has changed beyond all recognition from the time when we were in Europe.

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28 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Tbh, this is becoming like Ipswich and their supporters. The days of which you speak should now be remembered from a historical perspective and not used as some present-day metric. The game of football has changed beyond all recognition from the time when we were in Europe.

Yes it has, and we’ve very much missed that particular boat, which is why many supporters now realise that our problems stem from the self-funding philosophy espoused by those at the top.

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5 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

Was the arrival of D&M declared as Year Zero?  Don’t you remember finishing 5th, 4th, and 3rd in the top flight, playing in Europe, getting to two FA Cup semi-finals and winning the League Cup?  Yes, compared with the 1995-2004 period when we were stuck in the Championship we’ve done a bit better, but the self-imposed ceiling on our ambition is now stifling the Club and it’s obvious for all who wish to see that we are falling further and further behind in our ability to compete at Premier League, and probably soon Championship, level.  

 

40 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Tbh, this is becoming like Ipswich and their supporters. The days of which you speak should now be remembered from a historical perspective and not used as some present-day metric. The game of football has changed beyond all recognition from the time when we were in Europe.

Bang on RTB, those who deride Ipswich fall into the trap of our "glorious history".

Football is completely different now, whether you like it or not is up to you.

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Seeing Gilmour & Placheta lining up at corners to defend against massive CP players summed it up for me. They looked like Twiggy by comparison.

Even teams like Palace can field these muscular, athletic players all the time now. And these days they can play football - & are all able to finish as well. There are a few players in the PL who can survive on pure ability, but they're few & far between these days.

Incidentally it's one of the reasons I don't think Max is worth a huge amount as he gets forced out of the game too easily - although (& this really, really annoys me) he gets obstructed time & time again & the refs. do nothing about it. Opposition players know he'll do them for speed so they simply step across him, the ball being yards away, & when he tries to fight his way round them they get the foul. You can see the frustration on his face & in the end he gives up & just keeps passing the ball backwards.

Edited by ron obvious

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On 29/12/2021 at 18:16, Indy said:

Dean Smith took Buendia had a 200 million pound squad and was only three places and four points better off when they both got sacked with far less tough set of fixtures. How anyone can think Smith would have done better is beyond me! But hey ho all see it differently!

The key point is three places and four points BETTER off!

 

But you’d rather we still kept a failing manager? Beggars belief what some of the people on here say as they clearly know very little about football 🙈

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18 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I always said it wasn’t his fault. I also think he is a superior coach to Smith. However morale was so low because the players could see they couldn’t cut it- due to poor window and inadequate budget- that he has lost the dressing room. When that happens it’s always the end. A real shame- imagine what could have been with proper budget and backing 

You also said it was the best transfer window in living memory so not sure we should believe everything you say. 

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1 hour ago, TheBaldOne66 said:The key point is three places and four points BETTER off!

 

But you’d rather we still kept a failing manager? Beggars belief what some of the people on here say as they clearly know very little about football 🙈

Nope, I’ve said I’ll always respect Farke and fully understand he had to go, but to replace a failing manager with one who spend shed loads more and failed even worse is beyond me. And I don’t understand how so many can be happy with that! Surely it’s not proactive to a low confidence set of players not to replace a failing manager with another one?

As I’ve posted we would have been better off trying to appoint a successful lower league manager or someone with a real history of keeping teams up even if it was on a very short term contract till the summer! Smith is a nice guy but absolutely no improvement on Farke, in my opinion and his CV proves that.

Edited by Indy

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17 hours ago, king canary said:

I'm really not sure I see any evidence for this.

There is zero evidence we are stronger now than 3 years ago... the opposite in my opinion. The fan base is now at it's lowest and we have zero confidence in the 1st team. There is no "Buendia" in the team, no Captain with a voice, no back up to Pukki, no Skipp type of DM that we so needed..... Sold most of the silverware and are now desperately touting around a unhappy Cantwell whilst getting abuse for the way a Chelsea overhyped kid is being treated (sorry are we supposed to clap mediocrity?).

It's a mess and we are back to square one on the pitch. 

Still at least we have soccerbot or whatever its called... Gilmour is great at that seemingly....

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26 minutes ago, hogesar said:

You also said it was the best transfer window in living memory so not sure we should believe everything you say. 

Didn't you also applaud the transfer business in the summer?

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13 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Didn't you also applaud the transfer business in the summer?

Yep at the time I was pretty happy, most were, the players had performed in the top flight of German league with a failing team, both Rashica and Sargent stats looked very good. Tzolis was courted by some very big teams.

Lees I had no knowledge of and to be fair wasn’t exactly very expensive.

Normann and Kabak sensible to loan with option to buy.

Because they haven’t performed to the levels we wanted them too is in part the fault of a lot of things, coaching, set up, settling in a new country and team but the biggest problem our senior players who have done the premiership season before and still here have been utterly rubbish too! The standard had been set.

Edited by Indy

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20 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

There is zero evidence we are stronger now than 3 years ago... the opposite in my opinion. The fan base is now at it's lowest and we have zero confidence in the 1st team. There is no "Buendia" in the team, no Captain with a voice, no back up to Pukki, no Skipp type of DM that we so needed..... Sold most of the silverware and are now desperately touting around a unhappy Cantwell whilst getting abuse for the way a Chelsea overhyped kid is being treated (sorry are we supposed to clap mediocrity?).

It's a mess and we are back to square one on the pitch. 

Still at least we have soccerbot or whatever its called... Gilmour is great at that seemingly....

Says it all about where we are as a club right now.

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24 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

There is zero evidence we are stronger now than 3 years ago... the opposite in my opinion. The fan base is now at it's lowest and we have zero confidence in the 1st team. There is no "Buendia" in the team, no Captain with a voice, no back up to Pukki, no Skipp type of DM that we so needed..... Sold most of the silverware and are now desperately touting around a unhappy Cantwell whilst getting abuse for the way a Chelsea overhyped kid is being treated (sorry are we supposed to clap mediocrity?).

It's a mess and we are back to square one on the pitch. 

Still at least we have soccerbot or whatever its called... Gilmour is great at that seemingly....

I absolutely agree with your viewpoint, while I agree we don’t appear to be stronger, I would ask if we’ve had the right manager now and in Farke?

Farke did an amazing job, but found wanting this year and no improvement from Smith thus far. Would Allerdyce have been a better option to try and organise this mob to give us a real chance of staying up? Would he have got more out of them?

Reality is possibly, but who knows.

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