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Winning 25

A DISASTROUS mistake to sack Farke

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5 minutes ago, kirku said:

The problem is that we needed signings for the here and now, in order to "learn the lessons from previous windows".

We were promised better athletes who could compete physically. We got Gilmour and PLM.

We expected faster wingers who would help us play better on the break and faster in transition. We got Tzolis and Sargent.

Some of them may come good in time but when you have Emi and Skipp sized holes in the first team, you need players ready today not tomorrow.

Sure, and the likes of Vrancic and Stiepermann were supposed to be oven-ready when we bought them, but clearly weren't. Lees-Melou should have been ready - a tall, energetic midfielder with years in Ligue 1 for a very decent side in Nice that we got relatively cheaply due to a failed French TV deal punching big holes in the finances of many French clubs.

We went for younger players who I suspect most would have thought were ready or thereabouts considering their backgrounds.

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To stay up we needed things to go very well, early momentum, few injuries, the new system to be effective, and the new players to settle in quickly.

I am not sure anything has really gone our way, to me the biggest mistake was to change our formation, we have just ended up with too many oval pegs in round holes.  The lack of physicality in midfield, as said before replacing Skipp with a like for like, and swapping Buendia for Rashica, and McLean for Normann, would have given us a better chance

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46 minutes ago, Winning 25 said:

 

There's is no place for name calling on this thread onion bag. I don't think anyone deserves to be called an idiot. It not big, its not clever and it's not what we, as Norwich City supporters do. Can you imagine Daniel Farke calling anyone an idiot? He would never do it. OUT OF RESPECT. Stuart Webber on the other hand would call us all idiots and much, much worse, without any hesitation. That's what we've become is it. Good guys never make it, so we'll be nasty Norwich now? That's very sad

Did you not read the comments that prompted my statement or are you actually Mr Wrong also, tool!   

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1 minute ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Did you not read the comments that prompted my statement or are you actually Mr Wrong also, tool!   

Don’t call people tools onion 

 

that’s not on.

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9 minutes ago, Mr right said:

Don’t call people tools onion 

 

that’s not on.

You’re free to prove me wrong, just answer the question raised in the first place - if you post a statement of opinion but can’t back it up then what are you?   

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It has become self evident from the last few games that it was the players who got Farke the sack and they are doing their utmost to get Smith the sack. Especially McLean who continues to pretend to be a professional footballer . Webber has to take responsibility for  the recruitment of a lot of failures and so wasting the income from the Buendia sale. And…..Sargent ? Please! Should never be allowed to pull on the yellow jersey again, a complete waste of space and money; he is keeping a youngster out of the squad who actually wants to play Premiership football. I am feeling so disappointed and demotivated with this squad of hopeless , pathetic, lazy, underachieving, wastes of space it really is not worth my time or effort or money to turn up and support them. We can all support losers if they at least show effort in trying to avoid the losses, but they have to at least try and not simply roll over in such an embarrassing manner. 

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3 minutes ago, kenfoggo said:

It has become self evident from the last few games that it was the players who got Farke the sack and they are doing their utmost to get Smith the sack. Especially McLean who continues to pretend to be a professional footballer . Webber has to take responsibility for  the recruitment of a lot of failures and so wasting the income from the Buendia sale. And…..Sargent ? Please! Should never be allowed to pull on the yellow jersey again, a complete waste of space and money; he is keeping a youngster out of the squad who actually wants to play Premiership football. I am feeling so disappointed and demotivated with this squad of hopeless , pathetic, lazy, underachieving, wastes of space it really is not worth my time or effort or money to turn up and support them. We can all support losers if they at least show effort in trying to avoid the losses, but they have to at least try and not simply roll over in such an embarrassing manner. 

These arent first team players though

I'd argue our first Xi if all fit are

               Krul

Aarons  Hanley Gibson Williams

          Rupp  Normann Gilmour

   Rashica    Pukki    Cantwell

9 of those didnt start at Palace

We have to judge Smith and whether the players are performinging for him when theyre playing and fit

In a fit squad there were players yesterday who wouldnt be anywhere near a premier league team

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5 hours ago, Danbury Yellow said:

Imagine if he hadn’t been sacked.  I suspect the results would be pretty similar to where we are now, and Daniel would be getting a torrid time at the matches and certainly on here.  
He has left with his head held high and that is probably the best outcome we could have wished for, for a much loved manager. 
 

I wonder what the odds are on this time next year Smith and Webber are gone and Farke is back at CR?

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55 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Sure, and the likes of Vrancic and Stiepermann were supposed to be oven-ready when we bought them, but clearly weren't. Lees-Melou should have been ready - a tall, energetic midfielder with years in Ligue 1 for a very decent side in Nice that we got relatively cheaply due to a failed French TV deal punching big holes in the finances of many French clubs.

We went for younger players who I suspect most would have thought were ready or thereabouts considering their backgrounds.

I thought they were ready, because I had to trust that they knew who they were bringing in. PLM sounded good but look at how he stacked up to Kouyate. That can't have been a surprise to those doing our transfer due diligence - or is PLM the BK8 of CMs?

Quite a few people sounded the alarm on Sargent, for example, but we had to hope Webber knew how to reinvest the Emi money...

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42 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Did you not read the comments that prompted my statement or are you actually Mr Wrong also, tool!   

That is bang out of order. Disappointing, especially as you had already been warned. 

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5 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

These arent first team players though

I'd argue our first Xi if all fit are

               Krul

Aarons  Hanley Gibson Williams

          Rupp  Normann Gilmour

   Rashica    Pukki    Cantwell

9 of those didnt start at Palace

We have to judge Smith and whether the players are performinging for him when theyre playing and fit

In a fit squad there were players yesterday who wouldnt be anywhere near a premier league team

This seemed to be that plan at the start of the season, presumably with PLM instead of Rupp and Dimi possibly ahead of Williams.

It was very quickly apparent that the midfield was utterly out if its depth, something dramatic had happened to Cantwell, there was a reason Burnley bombed Gibson out, Kabak and Tzolis were even rawer than we could imagine, and the best signing was carrying an injury.

Hindsight isn't kind.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Jersey Canary said:

I wonder what the odds are on this time next year Smith and Webber are gone and Farke is back at CR?

If Farke came back as DoF, I'd be all for it personally.

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4 hours ago, Chelm Canary said:

Can't disagree with this. If we kept Farke on it would not have been pretty. 

Aso, I assume you're from Danbury near Chelmsford?

 

 

 

Very close Chelm, down the road in Little Baddow.  I occasionally see a few Canary’s in the town and at the station....might have even been you!! 

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1 hour ago, Jersey Canary said:

I wonder what the odds are on this time next year Smith and Webber are gone and Farke is back at CR?

I’d say zero.  I actually think we will do well again in the Championship which keeps Smith in post, as even though many are up in arms about how poor we are, comparatively to the level down we would beat most teams there, the quality differential is now huge.  Fulham, West Brom, Bournemouth, Watford and ourselves have become a selection of teams at a similar level stuck between the leagues….such is the gulf between them.  It’s crazy stuff these days.  

Edited by Danbury Yellow

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1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

it really is not worth my time or effort or money to turn up and support them

Don't then. I'm sure the players would be devastated to lose your well informed critique.

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In hindsight, when we lost to Watford for the 5th time out of 5 under DF I should have realised that his time was up.

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The sacking of Farke unraveled the unity at the club. I wonder who the players who wanted him gone were.  I’m not seeing anyone playing better under Smith, and I don’t know what our playing style is now supposed to be.

Just Weber showing more confidence in his signings than his Coach. Looking like misplaced confidence.

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6 minutes ago, FCC said:

The sacking of Farke unraveled the unity at the club. I wonder who the players who wanted him gone were.  I’m not seeing anyone playing better under Smith, and I don’t know what our playing style is now supposed to be.

Just Weber showing more confidence in his signings than his Coach. Looking like misplaced confidence.

There's another point to this.

Farke revolutionised training at the club. Training sessions were increased and the tactical elements of playing his system were complex and took quite some time to adapt to. Days off were moved to allow recovery sessions the day after games.

It will have been a less than simple process to rip all of that up and alter the tactical setup. 

And whilst some say that there were signs of improvement under Smith, my own view is that we looked to have tightened up defensively but at the expense of attacking output. We scored 2 goals in Farke's last game in charge, we have scored 3 in 8 games under Smith, with two of those being goalkeeping errors and the other an absolute wondergoal from Pukki. 

To be honest, under Smith I think we've had 2 good performances out of the 8 games, Wolves and Man Utd. We were incredibly lucky to beat Southampton and, but for that, Smith's record would look completely horrendous.

I don't blame either manager though. In all honesty, this squad simply isn't anywhere near good enough. With all of our best players fit all season, we might have a chance. But that never happens. Every team has to deal with unavailability of players. When you scratch past the surface of this NCFC squad, what is underneath is completely sub-standard.

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25 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

There's another point to this.

Farke revolutionised training at the club. Training sessions were increased and the tactical elements of playing his system were complex and took quite some time to adapt to. Days off were moved to allow recovery sessions the day after games.

It will have been a less than simple process to rip all of that up and alter the tactical setup.

This^^^  It wasn't just that Farke was sacked. Every bit of the training routines and application, not to mention disciplinary measures will have gone with him.  A total change from four years of proven methodology. Sure the PL has not been kind to us, mainly through injuries and covid - but overall, it has more to do with the resources at the club than Farke - or Smith, for that matter. 

We lost a lot when Farke went and what has replaced it is less than what he could offer.  We would still be struggling, but for a club of our resources, he was the one most likely to be able to do something with it. Gone has a bit of the naivety, but what has replaced it is even worse. Can't attack, can't defend, no systems to fall back on and ingrained as they were under DF - like that first half against Brentford. He's been proven right over leaving out Cantwell and Gilmour too. 

I started to feel for him having to respond to inquests match after match of defeats, but he had started picking up points and that Brentford result was huge for him and our season - or would have been had he been allowed to carry on.  All his sacking has achieved is a three match bounce that saw us pick up five points - and since then, zilch - with knobs on. 

Edited by lake district canary
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1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

This^^^  It wasn't just that Farke was sacked. Every bit of the training routines and application, not to mention disciplinary measures will have gone with him.  A total change from four years of proven methodology. Sure the PL has not been kind to us, mainly through injuries and covid - but overall, it has more to do with the resources at the club than Farke - or Smith, for that matter. 

We lost a lot when Farke went and what has replaced it is less than what he could offer.  We would still be struggling, but for a club of our resources, he was the one most likely to be able to do something with it. Gone has a bit of the naivety, but what has replaced it is even worse. Can't attack, can't defend, no systems to fakll back on and ingrained as they were under DF - like tha first half against Brentford. He's been proven right over leaving out Cantwell and Gilmour too. 

I started to feel for him having to respond to inquests match after match of defeats, but he had started picking up points and that Brentford result was huge for him and our season - or would have been had he been allowed to carry on.  All his sacking has achieved is a three match bounce that saw us pick up five points - and since then, zilch - with knobs on. 

Not even that Lakey, we’d just picked up five points from four games under Farke so that bounce people talk about started pre Smith!

I understand sacking Farke but replacing him for a guy who spent 200 million bought Buendia and got sacked the same time as Farke was just stupidity…..Webber wanted someone who wouldn’t stir up the the hornets nest……

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1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

This^^^  It wasn't just that Farke was sacked. Every bit of the training routines and application, not to mention disciplinary measures will have gone with him.  A total change from four years of proven methodology. Sure the PL has not been kind to us, mainly through injuries and covid - but overall, it has more to do with the resources at the club than Farke - or Smith, for that matter. 

We lost a lot when Farke went and what has replaced it is less than what he could offer.  We would still be struggling, but for a club of our resources, he was the one most likely to be able to do something with it. Gone has a bit of the naivety, but what has replaced it is even worse. Can't attack, can't defend, no systems to fakll back on and ingrained as they were under DF - like tha first half against Brentford. He's been proven right over leaving out Cantwell and Gilmour too. 

I started to feel for him having to respond to inquests match after match of defeats, but he had started picking up points and that Brentford result was huge for him and our season - or would have been had he been allowed to carry on.  All his sacking has achieved is a three match bounce that saw us pick up five points - and since then, zilch - with knobs on. 

Farke had a fully fit squad for the whole if his time this season and was achieving deadful results....Smith has been decimated by injuries/covid in the last 3 games, the like of which Farke didnt have to contend with

Anyone could see that there was an upturn in performances in Smith's early games, we were actually competetive where we previous hadnt been under Farke

We've currently got 11 players out, probably 7/8 starters. Smith cant be judged on that basis with so many players out....Farke certainly can

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Certainly not a mistake to sack Farke. We were doing awful under him, Smith arrived and got loads of credit for how we did in his first two games then Normann and Rashica, our best two players got injured and soon after we get a whole load more. I still have belief in Smith as I see these abysmal performances mainly due to our injury list, not poor management by him 

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Funny isn’t it - I was only reading stuff on here a couple of weeks ago about how much more impressive things looked in training and now this is all being revised. The continuing love-in for Farke is all well and good but with anything like 12 players out, as we had for Palace, the idea that we’d not have had a bigger defeat for me is simply misplaced. 

Smith has already proven better with the squad when it’s fit than Farke did - the performances were markedly better up to Villa, anyone disagreeing with that is lying, plain and simple.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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11 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Funny isn’t it - I was only reading stuff on here a couple of weeks ago about how much more impressive things looked in training and now this is all being revised. The continuing love-in for Farke is all well and good but with anything like 12 players out, as we had for Palace, the idea that we’d not have had a bigger defeat for me is simply misplaced. 

Smith has already proven better with the squad when it’s fit than Farke did - the performances were markedly better up to Villa, anyone disagreeing with that is lying, plain and simple.

Only your opinion. We’re certainly not markedly  improved, we pushed a ****e United, Southampton we’re arguably better and since & including Newcastle we have been devoid of any real threat! But anyone who says we are better now than under Farke has a blinkered view in my opinion. What Gerrard has done since Smith has gone is a markedly better performance, not Smith!

Edited by Indy

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1 minute ago, Indy said:

Only your opinion. We’re certainly not markedly  improved, we pushed a ****e United, Southampton we’re arguably better and since & including Newcastle we have been devoid of any real threat! But anyone who says we are better now than under Farke has a blinkered view in my opinion. What Gerrard has done since Smith has gone is a markedly better performance, not Smith!

Sure, but I'm fairly sure Gerrard's had a bounce that's also been powered by the return of several key players, although the Villa set who've graced our forums with their presence would be able to tell us more.

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1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

Funny isn’t it - I was only reading stuff on here a couple of weeks ago about how much more impressive things looked in training and now this is all being revised. The continuing love-in for Farke is all well and good but with anything like 12 players out, as we had for Palace, the idea that we’d not have had a bigger defeat for me is simply misplaced. 

Smith has already proven better with the squad when it’s fit than Farke did - the performances were markedly better up to Villa, anyone disagreeing with that is lying, plain and simple.

I'll give you my honest opinion, Branston.

I thought the first half v Southampton was the worst we've played all season. Absolutely shambolic and it was a miracle that we weren't 4-1 or 5-1 down at half time. The second half was much better and we nicked a set-piece goal and an undeserved win. I thought Smith had tried to change too much, too quickly in that game. 

Wolves I thought was very good and really showed some decent signs.. We looked a bit more compact and defensively resolute, although didn't create many chances and didn't score.

Newcastle was absolutely dreadful. We didn't adapt to playing 10 men at all when we'd clearly gone there to defend and counter-attack and we were indebted to a wondergoal to avoid an absolutely crushing defeat.

Spurs and Man Utd were similar games. We looked decent and tidy in possession but still offered only a sporadic goal threat and lost both without scoring. Man Utd were very poor. 

The games since, Villa, Arsenal and Palace, have been, Chelsea apart, the worst performances of the season. Even with the mitigation of injuries and illness, we had 6 of our summer signings in the starting line-up v Palace and were so far off even competing that it was truly embarrassing. You know how bad it is when the gallows humour starts in the away fans.

Over the piece, 3 goals in 8 games. We scored 3 in the last two games that Farke was in charge. So, overall, I don't see much improvement really. I thought under Farke the first half v Brentford was the best we've played all season. We also had no Normann and Kabak for the first 4/5 games and a very tough start and had taken 5 points from his last 6 games in charge. We have 5 points from Smith's 8 games in charge. So, in reality, whilst I acknowledge there were some decent signs in the Wolves game, I really haven't seen much to suggest Smith has got any more out of this group of players, who simply aren't good enough. 

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7 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

I really haven't seen much to suggest Smith has got any more out of this group of players, who simply aren't good enough. 

Good post, I see it in the same way

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