Is it time for a fan led buy out?

[nutty nigel 7,514]

Are fans now claiming they're not part of the fan base?

Interesting times...

[Greavsy 2,412]

28 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

I doubt even if the Pope waded in with a half a billion we’d have a surge of ‘self righteousness’ quoting Crusades and Spanish Inquisition

I think we can look at more recent times, and not have to be too closely to find some skeletons in that particular closet! 

[shefcanary 2,390]

6 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Shef, this came up in the discussion we had in October over my Financing the Future thread. I think it is a good idea, and one Smith and Jones would probably be happy with.

But it would not be a totally small-fan-owed community club in the way Swansea was for a while. And for me to be entirely in favour it would need to have a genuinely fan-elected supporter-director with a golden share veto on a few crucial heritage issues. I advocated this 12 or 13 years ago and it has now made its way into the Crouch Report on the future of football.

The other point to be stressed about such a scheme for Norwich City is the one I made back in October, using a quote from Donald Trump's psychologist niece  - 'Too much and never enough'. Unless and until there is some calamitous financial crash in football, with big clubs going to the wall, no such scheme would enable us to do anything in the Premier League but at best cling on by our fingernails.

Yes, it's not a new idea by any means.  And yes, it would mean a wholly community owned club would not result, although the owners could still be fans.  As mentioned, the new owners would have to take the fans with them, so some form of appropriate fan representation on the board would be an imperative.

The question of a financial crash in football I would also concur is the only way a club like Norwich could compete.  Whether that is loss of broadcast money or the Super League becoming a reality is to be seen, but the current EPL gravy train can't continue, can it?

[GMF 736]

Not sure how this table will show up in practice, but the current breakdown of shareholders in the Club is shown below.

The first column shows the number of shares owned, the second column the number of shareholders within that ownership number / group, the third column the total number of shares held, there percentage of the total shareholding in the fourth column and, finally the number of shareholders as a percentage of the total.

This highlights the significant number of shareholders (78.23%) that hold less than 10 shares, but represent just 4.37% of the total shareholding.

Equally, there's just 37 shareholders holding 1,000 shares or more, but they own 83.74% of all shares. 

The Board owns 426,113 shares (69.07%) with 190,800 by other shareholders (30.93%) of which the Associate Directors have 24,878 (4.03%).

The two largest non-Board shareholders, Pleasure & Leisure Corporation, 23,278 (3.77% - ex Jimmy Jones) and the Old Trust, 10,219 (1.66%) both currently showing little or no interest in the Club's affairs and also highlights the challenge for anyone wishing to acquire a significant shareholding.

There is, of course, the option for the Board to issue 1,000,000 shares, which would significantly increase the total number of shares and result in a significant capital injection.

Ordinary Shares	Number of SH's	Total Shares Held	% Held	No of SH's %
327,309	1	327,309	53.06%	0.01%
80,000	1	80,000	12.97%	0.01%
23,278	1	23,278	3.77%	0.01%
12,000	1	12,000	1.95%	0.01%
10,219	1	10,219	1.66%	0.01%
7,500	1	7,500	1.22%	0.01%
6,200	1	6,200	1.01%	0.01%
5,000	1	5,000	0.81%	0.01%
1,001 - 4,999	11	27,099	4.39%	0.16%
1,000	18	18,000	2.92%	0.26%
500 - 999	15	9,023	1.46%	0.22%
200 - 499	60	15,747	2.55%	0.87%
100 -199	128	14,456	2.34%	1.87%
51 - 99	99	6,823	1.11%	1.44%
31 - 50	260	10,845	1.76%	3.79%
21 - 30	164	4,308	0.70%	2.39%
11 - 20	731	12,166	1.97%	10.65%
1 - 10	5,369	26,940	4.37%	78.23%
Totals	6,863	616,913	100.00%	100.00%

[PurpleCanary 5,555]

1 hour ago, GMF said:

Not sure how this table will show up in practice, but the current breakdown of shareholders in the Club is shown below.

The first column shows the number of shares owned, the second column the number of shareholders within that ownership number / group, the third column the total number of shares held, there percentage of the total shareholding in the fourth column and, finally the number of shareholders as a percentage of the total.

This highlights the significant number of shareholders (78.23%) that hold less than 10 shares, but represent just 4.37% of the total shareholding.

Equally, there's just 37 shareholders holding 1,000 shares or more, but they own 83.74% of all shares. 

The Board owns 426,113 shares (69.07%) with 190,800 by other shareholders (30.93%) of which the Associate Directors have 24,878 (4.03%).

The two largest non-Board shareholders, Pleasure & Leisure Corporation, 23,278 (3.77% - ex Jimmy Jones) and the Old Trust, 10,219 (1.66%) both currently showing little or no interest in the Club's affairs and also highlights the challenge for anyone wishing to acquire a significant shareholding.

There is, of course, the option for the Board to issue 1,000,000 shares, which would significantly increase the total number of shares and result in a significant capital injection.

Ordinary Shares	Number of SH's	Total Shares Held	% Held	No of SH's %
327,309	1	327,309	53.06%	0.01%
80,000	1	80,000	12.97%	0.01%
23,278	1	23,278	3.77%	0.01%
12,000	1	12,000	1.95%	0.01%
10,219	1	10,219	1.66%	0.01%
7,500	1	7,500	1.22%	0.01%
6,200	1	6,200	1.01%	0.01%
5,000	1	5,000	0.81%	0.01%
1,001 - 4,999	11	27,099	4.39%	0.16%
1,000	18	18,000	2.92%	0.26%
500 - 999	15	9,023	1.46%	0.22%
200 - 499	60	15,747	2.55%	0.87%
100 -199	128	14,456	2.34%	1.87%
51 - 99	99	6,823	1.11%	1.44%
31 - 50	260	10,845	1.76%	3.79%
21 - 30	164	4,308	0.70%	2.39%
11 - 20	731	12,166	1.97%	10.65%
1 - 10	5,369	26,940	4.37%	78.23%
Totals	6,863	616,913	100.00%	100.00%

Thanks. The 80,000 and the 12,000 are both in effect Foulger? In the latest accounts he was shown as being the beneficial owner of 98,200 shares although I seem to remember there was some kind of split between him and a relative so he doesn't have the voting rights to all of them.

[daly 500]

How many can remember when we had to apply for re-election to Division 3 South 

Even then the gates were some of the highest in the league

We've  always been a selling club and nothing much has changed in 70 years and probably never will 

[Midlands Yellow 3,950]

24 minutes ago, daly said:

How many can remember when we had to apply for re-election to Division 3 South 

Even then the gates were some of the highest in the league

We've  always been a selling club and nothing much has changed in 70 years and probably never will 

The small club mentality from the fans to the board room doesn’t help. I imagine what we could be ( 4th biggest county in England and a one county club) but we’ve always been programmed to be just grateful for what we have. 

[nutty nigel 7,514]

Fans again!

Is that all the fans?

Or are there some more not part of the fan base....

[Midlands Yellow 3,950]

7 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Fans again!

Is that all the fans?

Or are there some more not part of the fan base....

No idea what that’s about. 

[nutty nigel 7,514]

Just now, Midlands Yellow said:

No idea what that’s about. 

Its quite simple. Is it all the fans who have this small club mentality ie the fanbase or some of the fans.

[Midlands Yellow 3,950]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

Its quite simple. Is it all the fans who have this small club mentality ie the fanbase or some of the fans.

A lot of fans and the leadership. You’ve followed Norwich for long enough, Happy New Year btw. 

[nutty nigel 7,514]

So these other fans just toe the line, doff their caps and shuffle off to a little corner of the internet to make themselves heard.

Happy New Year.

[GMF 736]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Thanks. The 80,000 and the 12,000 are both in effect Foulger? In the latest accounts he was shown as being the beneficial owner of 98,200 shares although I seem to remember there was some kind of split between him and a relative so he doesn't have the voting rights to all of them.

Add the 6,200 shareholding to the two that you’ve highlighted and you get to the total of 98,200. 

[corbs 147]

Please let me know what is a Big Fan Mentality? I obviously need to recondition myself so I can perceive the club in the correct way. 
I’m a Day Tripper outsider having moved away from Norwich in the 80s, so I’ve a lot  to learn from the wise friendly locals, and arbiters of Carrow road etiquette. 

 

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Thanks. The 80,000 and the 12,000 are both in effect Foulger? In the latest accounts he was shown as being the beneficial owner of 98,200 shares although I seem to remember there was some kind of split between him and a relative so he doesn't have the voting rights to all of them.

It is his daughter Sarah.

[essex canary 492]

Some fans must have some money. A commercial ticket for the Arsenal match £200 plus VAT, Everton £150. How many of these do they sell? Why not find out if some of these fans will make a capital contribution to fund ground development?

 

[GMF 736]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

It is his daughter Sarah.

Legal interest is with Sarah, the beneficial interest (voting rights) with Michael, if it ever came to a vote. Probably done for inheritance tax reasons too. 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

53 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Some fans must have some money. A commercial ticket for the Arsenal match £200 plus VAT, Everton £150. How many of these do they sell? Why not find out if some of these fans will make a capital contribution to fund ground development?

 

An awful lot of those hospitality tickets are on company plastic to entertain clients.

[nutty nigel 7,514]

So it looks like the out without the buy...

And we need more big club mentality fans even though we don't have any...

[essex canary 492]

21 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

An awful lot of those hospitality tickets are on company plastic to entertain clients.

..and those who own the companies must be wealthy up to a point and they are crowding ordinary fans out of the ground and keeping up with the joneses is demanding ever higher proportions of commercial tickets.

[Greavsy 2,412]

6 minutes ago, essex canary said:

..and those who own the companies must be wealthy up to a point and they are crowding ordinary fans out of the ground and keeping up with the joneses is demanding ever higher proportions of commercial tickets.

Do these company owners get tickets for their offspring too...... 

[hogesar 9,619]

3 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

So these other fans just toe the line, doff their caps and shuffle off to a little corner of the internet to make themselves heard.

Happy New Year.

Did you not know? The real, true Norwich fans are the ones who don't accept mediocrity at our football club and show that by......occasionally complaining on the Internet then going quiet if things go well.

[BigFish 1,986]

4 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

The small club mentality from the fans to the board room doesn’t help. I imagine what we could be ( 4th biggest county in England and a one county club) but we’ve always been programmed to be just grateful for what we have. 

If I see a funnier or delusional post on here in 2022 I will be very surprised........what is this then Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and then Norwich? Bigger than Man U, Leeds, Tottenham, Arsenal, Newcastle, Everton?

[hogesar 9,619]

17 minutes ago, BigFish said:

If I see a funnier or delusional post on here in 2022 I will be very surprised........what is this then Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and then Norwich? Bigger than Man U, Leeds, Tottenham, Arsenal, Newcastle, 

@Midlands Yellow should be glad we have over achieved compared to second biggest Lincolnshire. Lincoln should be Premier League title winners!

[nutty nigel 7,514]

18 minutes ago, BigFish said:

If I see a funnier or delusional post on here in 2022 I will be very surprised........what is this then Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and then Norwich? Bigger than Man U, Leeds, Tottenham, Arsenal, Newcastle, Everton?

So there you go Midlands. You have 364 days to beat it. I think you will...

🙃

[BigFish 1,986]

19 minutes ago, hogesar said:

@Midlands Yellow should be glad we have over achieved compared to second biggest Lincolnshire. Lincoln should be Premier League title winners!

Never mind Lincoln, Noth Yorkshire is England's largest county, York have massively underperformed, should be Champions League at least.

[Midlands Yellow 3,950]

42 minutes ago, hogesar said:

@Midlands Yellow should be glad we have over achieved compared to second biggest Lincolnshire. Lincoln should be Premier League title winners!

Defeatist attitude! See you at the KP for the rearranged fixture and buy you a pint?  
  
let’s have more of this, what a night. 
 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Midlands Yellow

[essex canary 492]

1 hour ago, Greavsy said:

Do these company owners get tickets for their offspring too...... 

Judging by one letter I read in the EDP at the start of the pandemic I would guess that some are in the habit of buying for three or four generations of their families and claiming the VAT discounts. All well and good if family longevity is the norm - then again perhaps not?

 

 

[Samwam27 519]

When was the last time Smith & Jones invested in the club? 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

2 hours ago, essex canary said:

..and those who own the companies must be wealthy up to a point and they are crowding ordinary fans out of the ground and keeping up with the joneses is demanding ever higher proportions of commercial tickets.

Are you suggesting that they are locally owned companies ?